Spiritual Baptism

Blain · Feb 15, 2024

Yes what do the scriptures say? what is this really? If you have seen and tatsed the the real and your so cinfindent in how you understand it then should you not express to the thousands of people who will read your post how recieve the real thing?

can you explain and express the real thing in order to help those who are seeking the real thing? if we claim to know the truth then is it not that more important to express it not to prove who is right or wrong but to let anyone even one heart be lead to it?

You surely see how open I myself am I speak what I have seen I testify who he has shown himself to be I reieiece critism even in private messages but my concern dies not allow me to not testify but if you claim to understand your testimony is not about yourself it is for anyone who seeks the truth who hungers and thirsts if you cannot even give your own testimony what and why you understand what truth you hold then you are just holding back never forget the truth was never for ourselves

Ask yourself if you hold the truth how much do you use it to not prove your point or to point out others lacking of understanding but to explain and help others reach where you claim you are?

if you have the truth why do you withold? why can you cannot express and explain to others how to reach it?

Johann · Feb 15, 2024

Blain said:

Isa_44:18 They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.

Joh_3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

2Pe_1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

2Pe 1:5 For this very reason, applying your diligence [to the divine promises, make every effort] in [exercising] your faith to, N1develop moral excellence, and in moral excellence, knowledge (insight, understanding),
2Pe 1:6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, steadfastness, and in your steadfastness, godliness,
2Pe 1:7 and in your godliness, brotherly affection, and in your brotherly affection, [develop Christian] love [that is, learn to unselfishly seek the best for others and to do things for their benefit].
2Pe 1:8 For as these qualities are yours and are increasing [in you as you grow toward spiritual maturity], they will keep you from being useless and unproductive in regard to the true knowledge and greater understanding of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 For whoever lacks these qualities is blind--shortsighted [closing his spiritual eyes to the truth], having become oblivious to the fact that he was cleansed from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Therefore, believers, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you [be sure that your behavior reflects and confirms your relationship with God]; for by N1doing these things [actively developing these virtues], you will never stumble [in your spiritual growth and will live a life that leads others away from sin];

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered him, "I assure you and most solemnly say to you, unless a person is born again [reborn from above--spiritually transformed, renewed, sanctified], he cannot [ever] see and experience the kingdom of God."
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter his mother's womb a second time and be born, can he?"
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, "I assure you and most solemnly say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot [ever] enter the kingdom of God. [Eze_36:25-27]
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh [the physical is merely physical], and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Do not be surprised that I have told you, 'You must be born again [reborn from above--spiritually transformed, renewed, sanctified].'
Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it is coming from and where it is going; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can these things be possible?"
Joh 3:10 Jesus replied, "You are the [great and well-known] teacher of Israel, and yet you do not know nor understand these things [from Scripture]?
Joh 3:11 I assure you and most solemnly say to you, we speak only of what we [absolutely] know and testify about what we have [actually] seen [as eyewitnesses]; and [still] you [reject our evidence and] do not accept our testimony.

How. Joh_3:4, Joh_6:52; Joh_6:60; Joh_7:36; Joh_9:10; Joh_14:22, +*Pro_4:18, Isa_42:16, Jer_12:1, Mat_7:8, Mar_8:24-25, Luk_1:34, 1Co_15:35.
these things. Psa_51:10, Jer_31:33; Jer_32:39, Eze_11:19; Eze_18:31; Eze_36:25-27.
be. or, come to pass. Joh_3:4.

You have a blessed day
J.

Blain · Feb 15, 2024

Johann said:

Ok it is one thing to not be able to to prove what you say but to you think you can use scriptures and that makes what you say true? what is the word of god to you? if you caannot even explain why you speak what you believe and you just cop out by using scriptures that seemingly fit your narritive that is beyond opffensive his word is not for you to use because yopu cannot explain what you claim his word is not a toy it is holy and sacred the very same voice that spoke exisnatnce

You vlaim to understand but cannot express or explain it I did not ask you to do this for me or to prove who is right or wrong but for all those who will see and ready what you said words have power

But why do you think you know the truth when you cannot even bring yourself to explain why and how this is truth not even for the sake of others the thousands of believer and non believers who need the truth but is this just a game to you?

look to the scriptures you say yet there is so much confusion on what the scriptures say and mean so much division of of what the truth is if you have obtained the real thing you would know it is a gift that keeps on giving it is not something you are able top hold to yourself it is to wonderful to amazing to astonishing it makes you want to give it even if it means you lose your life even if you die in the proxess because the truth is just that glorieus that heart inticing but from I have seen from you even if you claim to know the truth you refuse to give it

This isn't about you or me it isn't about what we think is truth and every word spoken every post effects so many people and you claim to know the truth but cannot give it

Johann · Feb 15, 2024

Blain said:

Simple-you want to pontificate, philosophize WITHOUT using the D'varim of YHVH-and we are in a warfare. And then turn on me.

2Co 10:2 I ask that when I do come I will not be driven to the boldness that I intend to show toward those few who regard us as if we walked according to the flesh [like men without the Spirit].
2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh [as mortal men], we are not carrying on our [spiritual] warfare according to the flesh and using the weapons of man.
2Co 10:4 The weapons of our warfare are not physical [weapons of flesh and blood]. Our weapons are divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses.
2Co 10:5 We are destroying sophisticated arguments and every exalted and proud thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought and purpose captive to the obedience of Christ

the weapons. *2Co_6:7 g. Num_32:27, 1Sa_17:39; 1Sa_17:45, Isa_59:17, +*Eze_32:27, Zec_10:4, Mat_4:4, Joh_2:15, *Rom_6:13 mg. *Rom_13:12, *Eph_6:11; **Eph_6:13-18, *1Th_5:8, *Heb_4:12, *Rev_12:11.
our warfare. Num_32:27, Psa_144:1, Son_6:4, Luk_22:38, Rom_7:23, +1Co_9:7, Eph_6:12, *1Ti_1:18 g. 1Ti_6:12, 2Ti_2:3-4, Heb_10:32, Rev_12:17.
not carnal. Gr. sarkikos (S# G4559, 1Co_9:11). 2Co_10:3, Num_8:24, Jdg_7:2, *1Sa_17:39, 2Ch_20:1-30, Ecc_12:11, *Isa_31:1, Hos_1:7, **Zec_4:6, **+Mat_20:26; Mat_26:51, Luk_22:50, *Joh_18:11, Rom_7:14 g. *1Co_1:17, 2Ti_2:24, *Heb_4:12, 1Pe_2:11 g.
mighty. Gr. dunatos (S# G1415, Mat_19:26). *2Co_2:14; *2Co_3:5; *2Co_4:7; 2Co_6:7; *2Co_13:3; *2Co_13:4, Jos_6:5, Jdg_7:13-23; Jdg_14:6; Jdg_15:14-16, *1Sa_17:45-50, Psa_110:2, Isa_41:14-16, *Zec_4:6; *Zec_4:7; Zec_9:10; Zec_9:14; Zec_10:5, *Luk_4:32, +Act_7:20; +Act_7:22; Act_13:12, +*Rom_1:16; +*Rom_8:35-37; *Rom_15:19, *1Co_1:18-24; *1Co_2:5; 1Co_4:20; 1Co_13:3-4, Gal_3:5, Eph_3:7; **Eph_6:11, *1Th_1:5, **Heb_4:12; *Heb_11:32; *Heb_11:33, 1Jn_5:4.
through God. or, to God. Jdg_7:15, *Zec_9:10; *Zec_9:14.
pulling down. or, destruction. 2Co_10:8 g. 2Co_13:10 g. Jos_6:5; Jos_6:20; Jos_11:11, Psa_44:5, *Pro_21:22, Isa_30:25; Isa_41:15, *Jer_1:9; *Jer_1:10, Eze_38:20, Dan_2:45, Mal_4:3, Luk_10:19; Luk_11:21-22, Heb_11:30, Rev_15:2.
of strongholds. Isa_25:12, Jer_3:17; *Jer_23:29, Lam_2:2, Rom_1:5; Rom_15:18, 1Co_1:27.

Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God [for His precepts are like the splendid armor of a heavily-armed soldier], so that you may be able to [successfully] stand up against all the schemes and the strategies and the deceits of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood [contending only with physical opponents], but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this [present] darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) places.
Eph 6:13 Therefore, put on the complete armor of God, so that you will be able to [successfully] resist and stand your ground in the evil day [of danger], and having done everything [that the crisis demands], to stand firm [in your place, fully prepared, immovable, victorious].
Eph 6:14 So stand firm and hold your ground, HAVING N1TIGHTENED THE WIDE BAND OF TRUTH (personal integrity, moral courage) AROUND YOUR WAIST and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (an upright heart), [Isa_11:5]
Eph 6:15 and having N1strapped on YOUR FEET THE GOSPEL OF PEACE IN PREPARATION [to face the enemy with firm-footed stability and the readiness produced by the good news]. [Isa_52:7]
Eph 6:16 Above all, lift up the [protective] N1shield of faith with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
Eph 6:17 And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God. [Isa_59:17]
Eph 6:18 With all prayer and petition pray [with specific requests] at all times [on every occasion and in every season] in the Spirit, and with this in view, stay alert with all perseverance and petition [interceding in prayer] for all N1God's people.

Eph 6:10 For the rest, be continually empowered in the ko'ach of Hashem and in the oz of His gevurah. [TEHILLIM 27:14]
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of Hashem for you to be able to stand against the nechalim (scheming deceitfulness, wiles, evil plots) of Hasatan.
Eph 6:12 Because we are not wrestling against basar vadahm (flesh and blood), but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of the choshech of the Olam Hazeh, against the kokhot ruchaniyim ra'im (evil spiritual forces) in Shomayim.
Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the whole armor of Hashem, that you may be able to withstand in the Yom HaRah and, having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand, therefore, having girded your waist with HaEmes and having put on the breastplate of Tzedek, [YESHAYAH 11:5; TEHILLIM 132:9; YESHAYAH 59:17]
Eph 6:15 And having put as shoes on your feet that which makes you ready to be a maggid of the Besuras HaGeulah. [YESHAYAH 52:7]
Eph 6:16 With all these things, take up the shield of emunah, by which you will be able to quench all the flaming darts of haRah (the Evil one);
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of yeshu'ah and the cherev of the Ruach Hakodesh, which is the Dvar Hashem. [YESHAYAH 59:17; 49:2]
Eph 6:18 Daven in the Ruach Hakodesh always with all tefillos and techinnah (supplication). To that end keep shomer and always persevere in techinnah (supplication) for the Kadoshim

Act 17:11 Now these people were more noble and open-minded than those in Thessalonica, so they received the message [of salvation through faith in the Christ] with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
Act 17:12 As a result many of them became believers, together with a number of prominent Greek women and men.

Act 17:12 πολλοὶ polloi|G4183|Adj-NMP|Many μὲν men|G3303|Conj|indeed οὖν oun|G3767|Conj|therefore ἐξ ex|G1537|Prep|of αὐτῶν autōn|G846|PPro-GM3P|them ἐπίστευσαν, episteusan|G4100|V-AIA-3P|believed, καὶ kai|G2532|Conj|and τῶν tōn|G3588|Art-GFP|of the Ἑλληνίδων Hellēnidōn|G1674|N-GFP|Grecian γυναικῶν gynaikōn|G1135|N-GFP|women τῶν tōn|G3588|Art-GFP|- εὐσχημόνων euschēmonōn|G2158|Adj-GFP|prominent καὶ kai|G2532|Conj|and ἀνδρῶν andrōn|G435|N-GMP|men οὐκ ouk|G3756|Adv|not ὀλίγοι. oligoi|G3641|Adj-NMP|a few.

With all readiness of mind (meta pāsēs prothumias). Old word from prothumos (pro, thumos) and means eagerness, rushing forward. In the N.T. only here and 2Co_8:11-19; 2Co_9:2. In Thessalonica many of the Jews out of pride and prejudice refused to listen. Here the Jews joyfully welcomed the two Jewish visitors.

Examining the Scriptures daily (kath' hēmeran anakrinontes tas graphas). Paul expounded the Scriptures daily as in Thessalonica, but the Beroeans, instead of resenting his new interpretation, examined (anakrinō means to sift up and down, make careful and exact research as in legal processes as in Act_4:9; Act_12:19, etc.) the Scriptures for themselves. In Scotland people have the Bible open on the preacher as he expounds the passage, a fine habit worth imitating.

Whether these things were so (ei echoi tauta houtōs). Literally, “if these things had it thus.” The present optative in the indirect question represents an original present indicative as in Luk_1:29 (Robertson, Grammar, pp. 1043f.). This use of ei with the optative may be looked at as the condition of the fourth class (undetermined with less likelihood of determination) as in Act_17:27; Act_20:16; Act_24:19; Act_27:12 (Robertson, Grammar, p. 1021). The Beroeans were eagerly interested in the new message of Paul and Silas but they wanted to see it for themselves. What a noble attitude. Paul’s preaching made Bible students of them. The duty of private interpretation is thus made plain (Hovey).
RWP

I really cannot help if you are to lazy to not only read, but study the Scriptures for yourself and let the Holy Spirit illuminate and open the Scriptures to you. We do not apprehend the D'varim intellectually, mere stoical-mechanical gnosis-but an inworking work of the Holy Spirit-the eyes of our understanding being enlightened-and a style of life in accordance WITH the Scriptures and of Christ Jesus, Him crucified, Him resurrected.

if you don't mind-stop trolling me-I have better things to do.
J.

Thunderrr-mental · Feb 15, 2024

Johann said:

Isa_44:18 They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.

Joh_3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

2Pe_1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

2Pe 1:5 For this very reason, applying your diligence [to the divine promises, make every effort] in [exercising] your faith to, N1develop moral excellence, and in moral excellence, knowledge (insight, understanding),
2Pe 1:6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, steadfastness, and in your steadfastness, godliness,
2Pe 1:7 and in your godliness, brotherly affection, and in your brotherly affection, [develop Christian] love [that is, learn to unselfishly seek the best for others and to do things for their benefit].
2Pe 1:8 For as these qualities are yours and are increasing [in you as you grow toward spiritual maturity], they will keep you from being useless and unproductive in regard to the true knowledge and greater understanding of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 For whoever lacks these qualities is blind--shortsighted [closing his spiritual eyes to the truth], having become oblivious to the fact that he was cleansed from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Therefore, believers, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you [be sure that your behavior reflects and confirms your relationship with God]; for by N1doing these things [actively developing these virtues], you will never stumble [in your spiritual growth and will live a life that leads others away from sin];

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered him, "I assure you and most solemnly say to you, unless a person is born again [reborn from above--spiritually transformed, renewed, sanctified], he cannot [ever] see and experience the kingdom of God."
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter his mother's womb a second time and be born, can he?"
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, "I assure you and most solemnly say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot [ever] enter the kingdom of God. [Eze_36:25-27]
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh [the physical is merely physical], and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Do not be surprised that I have told you, 'You must be born again [reborn from above--spiritually transformed, renewed, sanctified].'
Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it is coming from and where it is going; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can these things be possible?"
Joh 3:10 Jesus replied, "You are the [great and well-known] teacher of Israel, and yet you do not know nor understand these things [from Scripture]?
Joh 3:11 I assure you and most solemnly say to you, we speak only of what we [absolutely] know and testify about what we have [actually] seen [as eyewitnesses]; and [still] you [reject our evidence and] do not accept our testimony.

How. Joh_3:4, Joh_6:52; Joh_6:60; Joh_7:36; Joh_9:10; Joh_14:22, +*Pro_4:18, Isa_42:16, Jer_12:1, Mat_7:8, Mar_8:24-25, Luk_1:34, 1Co_15:35.
these things. Psa_51:10, Jer_31:33; Jer_32:39, Eze_11:19; Eze_18:31; Eze_36:25-27.
be. or, come to pass. Joh_3:4.

You have a blessed day
J.

You still have yet to answer the heart felt question I asked you.

I asked you to search your heart for a question about affection regarding the importance of water baptism.

I will remind you Jesus told John the Baptist water baptism was the right thing to do.

And Jesus wept over the death of John the baptist.

Jesus himself let John baptise him.

And I'm just asking you if there is anything special about being baptized after the holy spirit has come upon you.

Why would they be told to be baptized in they name of the lord after the Holy Spirit had come upon them in acts 10.

Why would they speak in tongues after water baptism in acts 19

Why would so many scriptures say water baptism is an act you must believe in.

I can post at least 15 very important verses.

But I would rather you just express your feeling about a simple question, regarding affection. For something Jesus believed in and loved.

Johann · Feb 15, 2024

Thunderrr-mental said:

There is nothing wrong with water baptism-this may come as a shocker to you but I was water baptized at a young age-why don't you and many here don't go into the Pauline epistles? Why was Yeshua baptized?
I can post you 15 verses that clearly show water is NOT Imperative-does it sound paradoxical?

Is speaking in glossalia an Ot/sign that you are born from above? What about those NOT speaking a foreign language and YET are born again?

How is it you don't understand a word I'm saying?
J.

Thunderrr-mental · Feb 15, 2024

Johann said:

it would not come as a shocker to me.

How old was you when you got baptised, was you truly in acceptance.

Did you truly believe

Because this may be your underlying issue.

Because you where baptised so young you felt nothing and saw no importance in it.

So it's a scar for you now.

You have still yet to answer my question.

Johann · Feb 15, 2024

Thunderrr-mental said:

Are you a simpleton?-no offense.

To Be Or Not To Be Baptized
by Pastor J. C. O'Hair

A SIMPLE MESSAGE ON BAPTISM
Judging from the present-day controversy about water baptism it would seem that it is not possible to write a simple message on the subject.

Most assuredly it requires more than a superficial study of the Scriptures to produce a strong conviction in the matter, based upon an intelligent understanding of the different verses in the Bible relating to the subject, instead of a bitter prejudice produced by a misunderstanding of all these Scriptures. With most Christians baptism is a habit rather than an intelligent act of obedience given to members of the Body of Christ.

Among the most spiritual of God’s people, including the most competent and fruitful preachers and teachers, there is much difference of opinion as to what the Bible teaches concerning water baptism. But how many of them, or rather, how few of them, have opened the Book with unprejudiced minds and unafraid hearts to search diligently and honestly for the truth, willing to accept and propagate what they find even though it is contrary to all of the traditions of church fathers and church creeds! It is no coward’s nor compromiser’s task to proclaim a message that is not in agreement with Christendom’s creeds.

But can the honest searcher of the Word of God answer the question, “to be or not to be baptized?” If he decides to be, can he say, “I have decided to be, because of a certain chapter or verse in the Book which gives instructions to members of the Body of Christ?” Most certainly not.

There are living today more than 200 million persons who have been baptized with water. With the great majority of them it was a case of involuntary baptism. Of the number of those who were baptized in infancy and have reached the age to render a decision, more than fifty per cent of them have approved the motive, the religious belief and act of the parent, guardian, priest, or preacher responsible for the religious ceremony or church ordinance, although they are by no means agreed as to the spiritual benefits derived therefrom. Certainly with none of them was it a case of the answer of a good conscience toward God. I Peter 3:21. The answer was by proxy.

The mode, formula and meaning of infant baptism vary with different church creeds and programs. In some cases the child is immersed to comply with the example of I Corinthians 10:1 to 13. In some cases the made is pouring. In most cases infant baptism is by sprinkling. With the Roman Catholics the ceremony by the priest is with water that has been blessed and is a water ceremony to remove original sin.

With other denominations sprinkling is the seal of the New Covenant, taking the place of circumcision which was the seal of the Old Covenant. In such cases it is required that the parents of the infant be professing Christians. In other denominations the sprinkling is the manner in which. the parents dedicate the child to the Lord. Many teach that the child presented by believing parents, by the act of baptism, then and there becomes a Christian and a member of the Church of Christ. I heard a preacher of one of the leading socalled Protestant denominations say, “most of our people become Christians by accident, being presented for baptism in infancy.”

It has been argued by many that the Greek word “baptizo” means “immerse”, but this can not be verified by the Holy Scriptures. The word, in noun form, is used in Hebrews 9:10, translated “washings”. Israel’s ceremonial washings were sprinklings, pourings, as well as dippings.

From four Scriptures the immersionists reason that Scriptural baptism must have been by immersion. Mark 1:9 and 10. John 3:23, Acts 8:38 and 39, Romans 6:4. In defense, or support, of infant baptism, the following Scriptures concerning the baptism of households are used: Acts 11:14 and 10:18; Acts 16:15; Acts 16:31 to 33; I Corinthians 1:16; I Corinthians 7:14; I Corinthians 10:2 and 11.

Those who refute the teaching and practice of household baptism, including infants, quote Mark 16:16, “he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.” Acts 8:12, “when they believed they were baptized, both men and women”. Acts 18:8, “many of the Corinthians hearing believed and were baptized.”

Space will not permit me to give you a full, exegetical explanation and links you don't read.

Shalom Achi
J.

Thunderrr-mental · Feb 15, 2024

Johann said:

Are you a simpleton?-no offense.

To Be Or Not To Be Baptized
by Pastor J. C. O'Hair

A SIMPLE MESSAGE ON BAPTISM
Judging from the present-day controversy about water baptism it would seem that it is not possible to write a simple message on the subject.

Most assuredly it requires more than a superficial study of the Scriptures to produce a strong conviction in the matter, based upon an intelligent understanding of the different verses in the Bible relating to the subject, instead of a bitter prejudice produced by a misunderstanding of all these Scriptures. With most Christians baptism is a habit rather than an intelligent act of obedience given to members of the Body of Christ.

Among the most spiritual of God’s people, including the most competent and fruitful preachers and teachers, there is much difference of opinion as to what the Bible teaches concerning water baptism. But how many of them, or rather, how few of them, have opened the Book with unprejudiced minds and unafraid hearts to search diligently and honestly for the truth, willing to accept and propagate what they find even though it is contrary to all of the traditions of church fathers and church creeds! It is no coward’s nor compromiser’s task to proclaim a message that is not in agreement with Christendom’s creeds.

But can the honest searcher of the Word of God answer the question, “to be or not to be baptized?” If he decides to be, can he say, “I have decided to be, because of a certain chapter or verse in the Book which gives instructions to members of the Body of Christ?” Most certainly not.

There are living today more than 200 million persons who have been baptized with water. With the great majority of them it was a case of involuntary baptism. Of the number of those who were baptized in infancy and have reached the age to render a decision, more than fifty per cent of them have approved the motive, the religious belief and act of the parent, guardian, priest, or preacher responsible for the religious ceremony or church ordinance, although they are by no means agreed as to the spiritual benefits derived therefrom. Certainly with none of them was it a case of the answer of a good conscience toward God. I Peter 3:21. The answer was by proxy.

The mode, formula and meaning of infant baptism vary with different church creeds and programs. In some cases the child is immersed to comply with the example of I Corinthians 10:1 to 13. In some cases the made is pouring. In most cases infant baptism is by sprinkling. With the Roman Catholics the ceremony by the priest is with water that has been blessed and is a water ceremony to remove original sin.

With other denominations sprinkling is the seal of the New Covenant, taking the place of circumcision which was the seal of the Old Covenant. In such cases it is required that the parents of the infant be professing Christians. In other denominations the sprinkling is the manner in which. the parents dedicate the child to the Lord. Many teach that the child presented by believing parents, by the act of baptism, then and there becomes a Christian and a member of the Church of Christ. I heard a preacher of one of the leading socalled Protestant denominations say, “most of our people become Christians by accident, being presented for baptism in infancy.”

It has been argued by many that the Greek word “baptizo” means “immerse”, but this can not be verified by the Holy Scriptures. The word, in noun form, is used in Hebrews 9:10, translated “washings”. Israel’s ceremonial washings were sprinklings, pourings, as well as dippings.

From four Scriptures the immersionists reason that Scriptural baptism must have been by immersion. Mark 1:9 and 10. John 3:23, Acts 8:38 and 39, Romans 6:4. In defense, or support, of infant baptism, the following Scriptures concerning the baptism of households are used: Acts 11:14 and 10:18; Acts 16:15; Acts 16:31 to 33; I Corinthians 1:16; I Corinthians 7:14; I Corinthians 10:2 and 11.

Those who refute the teaching and practice of household baptism, including infants, quote Mark 16:16, “he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.” Acts 8:12, “when they believed they were baptized, both men and women”. Acts 18:8, “many of the Corinthians hearing believed and were baptized.”

Space will not permit me to give you a full, exegetical explanation and links you don't read.

Shalom Achi
J.

t
The lord only requires that you come to him with simplicity.

Where not going to get anywhere by getting all technical, and quoting from scripture, which is mostly about different walks at different points of time,

All this leads to is confusion.

It's God the father who clothed you when you where lost, it was the father who drew you to the son, his ceremonial washing was a foreshadow of what was to come

Theres no need to be anxious when talking about simplicity, in acceptance of something sacred.

God preserves people people when they are simple, and asks you to come to him like little children.

His water gives life, and his life is in the water. It does not get anymore simple than this.

Without water you would not have survived your mothers womb.

Without water you could not live.

What is painful about water.

The flood saved eight people.

God wants you understand the simplicity of basic instructions, because he is not a God of confusion.

He said believe and be baptised and you will be saved.

He never said don't believe and don't be baptised

He said be baptised for a reason, so what is it.

turbosixx · Feb 15, 2024

Johann said:

Every time

Thunderrr-mental · Feb 15, 2024

Thunderrr-mental said:

t
The lord only requires that you come to him with simplicity.

Where not going to get anywhere by getting all technical, and quoting from scripture, which is mostly about different walks at different points of time,

All this leads to is confusion.

It's God the father who clothed you when you where lost, it was the father who drew you to the son, his ceremonial washing was a foreshadow of what was to come

Theres no need to be anxious when talking about simplicity, in acceptance of something sacred.

God preserves people people when they are simple, and asks you to come to him like little children.

His water gives life, and his life is in the water. It does not get anymore simple than this.

Without water you would not have survived your mothers womb.

Without water you could not live.

What is painful about water.

The flood saved eight people.

God wants you understand the simplicity of basic instructions, because he is not a God of confusion.

He said believe and be baptised and you will be saved.

He never said don't believe and don't be baptised

He said be baptised for a reason, so what is it.

here's some nice simple understanding 😊

turbosixx · Feb 15, 2024

Thanks for your reply. I'm getting a little better picture where you're coming from.

Johann said:

True, True and True.

Johann said:

Agreed.

Now, there is a lot of information here and if I commented on everything I think we need to discuss, we will be going down a bunch of trails.
So to help keep it on point, I would like to clear this up before we go further. You made this comment.

Johann said:

After Jesus's sacrifice, who make up Israel? Israel God's chosen people?

turbosixx · Feb 15, 2024

Godswilling said:

People will tell you there are multiple baptisms and if we look at scripture, it does talk about other baptisms. However, I'm concerned with the one baptism that pertains to us today after the cross.

I suggest to you the most important one, the one that applies to us today you didn't mention.
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Please consider. Paul ran across some believers who had been baptized into John's baptism. Paul baptized them again in the name of Jesus.
3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John's baptism.” 4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Johann · Feb 16, 2024

turbosixx said:

What Paul Said About Baptizing
Paul Was the Apostle to the Gentiles
The apostle Paul was sent to the Gentiles while Peter and the others went to the Jews.

But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised (for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles), and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. (Galatians 2:7-9)

Baptism Was Not Part of the Gospel for the Gentiles
However, Paul’s message, which was for the Gentiles, did not include baptism. The Jews who had been practicing the law with its ceremonial washings for hundreds of years (with the purpose of pointing them to the coming Messiah) needed one last washing for closure. But the Gentiles didn’t. They needed a relationship with God without all the religious trappings.

I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one would say you were baptized in my name. Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other.

For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void. (1 Corinthians 1:14-17)

But Paul Did Baptize Gentiles in Corinth Didn’t He?
Maybe, but not necessarily. The account of his being in Corinth is found in Acts 18. It starts out stating that Paul went there to visit some Jewish friends that had escaped from Rome.

After these things he left Athens and went to Corinth. And he found a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, having recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had commanded all the Jews to leave Rome. He came to them, and because he was of the same trade, he stayed with them and they were working, for by trade they were tent-makers. (Acts 18:1-3)

In the book of Romans, Paul stated that his heart’s desire was for his fellow countrymen to be saved. According to this account in Acts 18, Paul had been ministering to those who were in the synagogue –no doubt to reach the Jews; but there were also Gentiles present. And it was at this point in time (Acts 18:6) that he became frustrated and his focus was moved from the Jews to the Gentiles.

Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks. When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Messiah. But when they opposed Paul and became abusive, he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent of it. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.” Then Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. (Acts 18:4-7)

One of the names of the people that Paul baptized (noted in 1 Corinthians 1:14-16) was Crispus. He must have been a Jew since he was the synagogue ruler!

Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized. (Acts 18:8)

Here, it says that many of the Corinthians were believing and being baptized. Since Paul said that he only baptized Crispus, Gaius and the household of Stephanas, then others must also have performed the ceremony. Perhaps Gaius and Stephanas were Gentiles –we don’t know. But what we do know for certain is that Paul’s gospel was for the Gentiles and it did not include baptism (1 Corinthians 1:17).

Paul’s Resolution on Baptism
In 1 Corinthians 1:17, Paul identified two detractors from the cross of Christ. The first is cleverness of speech. It elevates the speaker above the Savior. He wanted his words to remain simple so that everyone could understand –and that their salvation would rest solely on the power of God (2 Corinthians 2:1-5).

The other detractor is baptism. He saw that it caused divisions in the church (1 Corinthians 1:10-17). Believers were becoming disciples (students) of Apollos and Peter and Christ. Paul’s mission was to bring people to a united faith in Christ.
https://myredeemer.org/foundation/baptism/paul.shtml#:~:text=What Paul Said About Baptizing

Johann · Feb 16, 2024

Johann said:

Isn't Baptism Essential for Salvation?
Almost every denomination emphasizes baptism. So isn’t it essential for salvation?

Yes! But which Baptism is Required: Spirit or Water?
The Bible says that there is one body, Spirit, hope, Lord, faith, God and likewise, there is only one baptism!

Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:1-6)

Don’t You Have to be Born of the Water and the Spirit?
Yes! But that’s not about sprinkling or dipping in water. It’s about being born physically (flesh gives birth to flesh) and then being born spiritually (the Spirit gives birth to spirit –born again).

Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:3-6)

Weren’t Some Saved Before Being Baptized?
Some Gentiles received the Spirit and were recognized to have been saved –and then they were baptized after the fact!

Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.” While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days. (Acts 10:43-48)

Baptism Demonstrates Our Identity
What happens to white cloth that is immersed in purple dye? It emerges with a brand new new identity: Purple Cloth! The white cloth is gone.

Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. (2 Corinthians 5:17)

For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. (Colossians 1:13-14)

We were baptized (united together) to form one body. No more Jews or Gentiles –just One Body and Jesus is the Head!

For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:12-13)

But Doesn’t the Bible Say that Water Saves?
There is a passage in First Peter about water baptism. But it says that the water baptism is only good for cleansing the conscience. It allows us to set a date and time that we have been saved and then rest in our salvation –not questioning it again. It’s a symbolic event of the real baptism that saves. Being baptized by the Spirit is the Real Thing!

For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him. (1 Peter 3:18-22)

There is only one baptism that saves –and that is with the Holy Spirit!
https://myredeemer.org/foundation/b...~:text=Isn't Baptism Essential for Salvation?

Johann · Feb 16, 2024

Thunderrr-mental said:

II. BAPTISM IN THE NEW TESTAMENT
There is no hint in the questions posed
to John the Baptist (John 1:19,25) that the
ceremony being performed by him was in
any way different from what was already
prescribed in the Old Testament.

The Pharisees did not ask what he was doing, they
asked why he was doing it. And the answer
is clear. John fulfilled prophecy as the forerunner of the Messiah (Isaiah 40:3; John
1:23).

To receive the Messiah, Israel was in
need of repentance and cleansing from sin
(Matthew 3:2; 4:17,23), and John preached
“the baptism of repentance for the remission
of sins” (Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3). Therefore,
came Jerusalem and all Judea to John “and
were baptized by him in Jordan, confessing
their sins” (Matthew 3:5,6).

So to prepare
Israel for their Messiah and entrance into
the promised Kingdom, this purifying and
cleansing ceremony of the Mosaic Law became especially important.

John himself summarizes these points
in John 1:31 where he stated the general
purpose of his baptism: “That He [Messiah
or Christ] should be made manifest to Israel,
therefore am I come baptizing with water.”

Is the baptism practiced in the Book of
Acts in obedience to Matthew 28:19,20 and
Mark 16:15-18 any different? That a negative answer is required can be seen for several
reasons. (1) Jesus was still being presented
to Israel as their Messiah (Acts 2:16-40, esp.
22,36; 3:12-26, esp. 12,25,26; 5:29-32, esp. 31).

(2) As did John the Baptist,Peter commanded
Israel to “repent and be baptized...for the
remission of sins” (Acts 2:37,38; 3:19). (3) It
was in Acts that the prophesied Kingdom was
actually offered to Israel (Acts 3:19-21).

III. IS WATER BAPTISM FOR TODAY?

The answer is no for the following reasons.

1. Baptism was part of the Mosaic Law.

The Christian today is strictly admonished
not to place himself under the Law or any
part of it. See Romans 6:14,15; Galatians
3:2,3; 4:9; 5:1-4,18; et al.

The ordinances
of the Law have been taken out of the way
and nailed to the Cross of Christ (Colossians
2:14; Hebrews 8:13; 10:1-18).

2. There occurred after the early chapters
of the Book of Acts a change in God’s dealings
with Israel. Israel rejected Peter’s offer of
the Kingdom in Acts 3:19-21 and as a result
was, as a nation, temporarily cast aside (Acts
10:1-48; 13:44-49; 18:4-6; 28:25-28; Romans
11:1-25, esp. 11,12,15,25). Therefore, the
whole basis for water baptism in the New Testament as traced in this tract is removed.

3. As another result of Israel’s rejection,
God began the Church of today, the Body
of Christ mentioned in Ephesians 1:22,23.
The student of Scripture must carefully distinguish between Israel and the Church.

It was the Apostle Paul that God raised up
to dispense the new, previously unrevealed
message concerning the origin, doctrine,
position, walk, and destiny of this Church
(Romans 16:25-27; Ephesians 2:11-3:12;
Colossians 1:24-29). This Apostle clearly
states that “Christ sent me not to baptize,
but to preach the gospel” (I Corinthians
1:17).

Thus he was not laboring under the
commission of Matthew 28 and Mark 16
as were Peter and the Eleven in the early
chapters of Acts. That commission does
not direct the dissemination of the gospel
today.

For the Church today there is only
“one baptism” (Ephesians 4:5), the baptism
of the Holy Spirit which unites the believer
with Christ and fuses him into the Body of
Christ (Romans 6:1-10; I Corinthians 12:13;
Galatians 3:27; Colossians 2:10-12).
Kenneth J. Morgan

www.bereanbiblesociety.org

A question which has occupied the Church
for centuries is whether the mode of baptism
should be sprinkling, pouring, or immersing.
But a more basic issue exists: Should water
baptism be practiced at all today? This tract
will present the case that it should not.

I. BAPTISM IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
Water baptism was not a New Testament
innovation. Many baptismal ceremonies
were prescribed in the Mosaic Law. See,
e.g., Exodus 29:4; 30:17-21; Numbers 8:5-7,
19:1-22, esp. 7-9,13,20,21; 31:23. The KJV
does not use the word “baptism” in any of
the above passages because that word is a
transliteration of a Greek word and not an
English translation. However, in the most extensive discussion of the ceremonial aspect of
the Mosaic Law found in the New Testament,
it is stated that the Levitical system had its
basis in “meats and drinks, and divers washings” (Hebrews 9:9,10). The word translated
“washings” is baptismos, or “baptisms.”
Should
Water Baptism
bereanbiblesociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/1272046627-0.pdf

Simple enough?
J.

Johann · Feb 16, 2024

turbosixx said:

Rom_9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Rom_11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Should answer your question IF you look up the Scriptures and do some cross referencing.

Rev_11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev_19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Johann · Feb 16, 2024

Thunderrr-mental said:

Way beyond you.
J.

turbosixx · Feb 16, 2024

Johann said:

Again, there is so much here to comment on, I don't know where to begin.

I suggest many take 1 Cor. 1:17 out of context and conclude Paul's gospel did not include baptism. That is false.
Paul's gospel did include baptism, every time. Please consider, not someone's misunderstanding of a verse but the undeniable facts.
Jesus instructed the 11 to baptize believers in the name of Jesus in the great commission. We see them do just that on the day of Pentecost, 3,000 souls. Now as you have correctly stated, these are Jews. Later we see the first Gentiles baptized in the name of Jesus in Acts 10. Now comes Paul.

The first time we see, recorded, anyone baptized that Paul preached to is Lydia. Then we see him peach Jesus to the Philippian jailer and he was baptized. Then we see Paul preach in Corinth and many were baptized, some personally by Paul. Then the very last recorded conversion God has given us in His word is by Paul. On Paul's 3rd missionary journey, we see him baptize men in the name of Jesus.
So the facts are the first recorded people being baptized in the name of Jesus was by the 12 is at Pentecost.
be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ
The last recorded conversion is by Paul in Acts 19.
4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

We see Paul baptize baptize believers in the name of Jesus, just as Jesus instructed the 11, and he never stopped.

Johann · Feb 16, 2024

Thunderrr-mental said:

Rom 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation [from His wrath and punishment] to everyone who believes [in Christ as Savior], to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed, both springing from faith and leading to faith [disclosed in a way that awakens more faith]. As it is written and forever remains written, "THE JUST and UPRIGHT SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." [Hab_2:4]

believeth. or, believing. Gr. pisteuonti. Believing translates pisteuonti, a present tense active voice participle, thus the Gospel is power from God for salvation to all the ones continuing to believe (Malcolm Lavender, Lavender Translation, fn. i). FS121F, +Gen_49:6, The belief is the effect of the power of God through the preaching of the gospel. Rom_4:5, Joh_3:16, +*Act_16:31; Act_20:21.
to the Jew. See on Rom_2:9, Luk_24:47.
first. In point of national precedence and privilege (CB). Rom_2:9-10; Rom_3:1-2; Rom_9:1-5; Rom_11:16, Joe_2:28 note. +*Dan_9:25 note. Zec_13:1, Mat_8:12, +*Act_1:8; *+Act_3:26; Act_13:26; Act_13:46; Act_19:10, Gal_3:28.
and also. *Rom_3:28-30.
the Greek. Representing all non-Jews (CB). +Rom_1:14, Rom_15:9, Mar_7:26, +Joh_7:35; Joh_12:20, Act_10:11; Act_14:1; Act_14:3; Act_19:10, 1Co_10:32, Gal_3:28.

J.

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