Spiritual warfare and the spiritual realm

[garee]

Why are so many Christians hostile about speaking in tongues?
It's a gift from The Holy Spirit and it's Biblical.

Signs are for those who believe not (no faith) .Tongues are never positive but are used as a negative sign .They are not to be sought after, seeing it speaks of judgment . Prophecy for those who have been given the faith of God by which we can believe Him not seen

Prophecy,God's living abiding word for those who do believe to the salvation of their soul.

Tongues is a sign to those who go above that which is written, prophecy.(The one and only source of faith). It showed those who do not believe prohecy that he would use other nations to bring the gospel which the outward Jew openly rejected according to their own flesh.

There idea of familiarity with God just because of their Jewish flesh (outward Jew) caused contempt, and hatred... they killed the one who when he said his last words... it is finished . The veil was rent to show their apostasy .

The Jews sought after a sign they stumbled over the cross . They were hoping their flesh could profit as that seen. Even though Christ said of His own...it profits for nothing.

For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;1Co 1:22

(For we walk by faith, not by sight2Corinthians 5:7

 

[celib]

I am smitten.
I bow down before your great wisdom and knowledge.
I yield.

It's Gods word not mine. God bless

 

[wolfwint]

My Bible teaches me the difference between praying in my
understanding with my mind, and in praying in tongues which
is of the Holy Spirit.
If you do not believe the scriptures then you are the one with another gospel.

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God
calls Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord,
but by the Holy Ghost.
1Corinthians 12:3
The scriptures testify that a believer, a disciple, cannot call Jesus Lord
without the indwelling Holy Spirit.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Romans 8:9

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?
And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them;
and they spoke with tongues, and prophesied.
Acts 19:

And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name they shall cast out devils.
They shall speak with new tongues.
Mark 16:17

If you have a problem with the truth of the scriptures then take this
up with Jesus directly.
I did. And Jesus confirmed his gospel to me by filling me with the
Holy Spirit and I spoke in tongues like they all did in the NT.

Not all in the NT spoke in tongues! And why we cant find the teaching which you proclaim concern the speaking in tongues before 1900 in the church during the churchhistorie? And why you must takeing the verses in acts out of the context for to explain your teachings?
Maby because their is no teaching in the early church which proof that speaking in tongues is the sign that somebody is baptised with the Holy Spirit?

 

[star]

I for one refuse to be found "wanting" in the Holy Spirit simply because I have never spoken in tongues. People receive the HS at the moment of salvation. For someone to call another un-saved, not filled with the HS simply because they do not perform this act of speaking in tongues is a dangerous position to take, IMHO.

 

[BillG]

I for one refuse to be found "wanting" in the Holy Spirit simply because I have never spoken in tongues. People receive the HS at the moment of salvation. For someone to call another un-saved, not filled with the HS simply because they do not perform this act of speaking in tongues is a dangerous position to take, IMHO.

Amen we received the HS when we placed our faith in Jesus.
Then the HS goes about the business of God in our lives. To conform us to the image of Jesus.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Why are so many Christians hostile about speaking in tongues? It's a gift from The Holy Spirit and it's Biblical.

Christians who do not speak in tongues are not "hostile" about modern tongues. But they understand that just as Paul had clearly stated "whether there be tongues THEY SHALL CEASE" (1 Cor 13:8), the genuine gift of supernaturally spoken LANGUAGES did cease upon the completion of Scripture, and the cessation of prophecies, tongues, and (supernatural) knowledge. Had the KJV translators consistently translated glossa/glossais as language(s) (supernaturally spoken by those who did not know them), we would not have what is known as "the Tongues Movement".

Now there are some here who believe that they speak a "prayer language" which they call "speaking in tongues". But the biblical gift of tongues is NOT a prayer language at all. It is human language clearly spoken supernaturally as we see in Acts 2. There is a verse or two in 1 Corinthians that appears to suggest a prayer language, but on closer inspection that is not what it about.

So there are a number of reasons why many genuine Christians do not accept the modern phenomenon of "tongues":

1. The doctrine postulated by Pentecostal churches is that tongues are evidence that the person speaking has become "Spirit-filled". Which means that those who do not are not Spirit-filled. Which means that there are two classes of Christians in existence, with those being Spirit-filled as spiritually superior to those not speaking in tongues.

2. Modern tongues are generally babbling, and hence called glossolalia, not glossais. Well there is no Scriptural support for such a phenomenon. Furthermore, people are being coached to speak this way, which again is not Scriptural.

3. Women are known to speak in tongues publicly in Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. This is a clear violation of God's instructions through Paul -- in this context -- that women are to keep silent in the churches (1 Cor 14:34,35).

4. Frequently gatherings where tongues are being spoken are also know to have some very disorderly behavior within the assembly. This is in violation of 1 Cor 14:40.

5. Tongues were a sign for unbelieving Jews to prove that the Gospel was of Divine origin (1 Cor 14:20-23), and therefore the miraculous manifestation of tongues was evident in the Apostolic Churches. But the time came when Paul turned away from the Jews and went to the Gentiles, and Gentiles began to predominate the churches. Thus we do not hear of tongues being spoken after the end of the first century, until the Montanists came on the scene (late 2nd century) and they were not well-regarded. It was not until the Azusa Street Revival in the early 20th century that the modern Tongues Movement began.

What needs to happen is that neither tongues-speakers nor non-tongues-speakers need to be contentious about this issue, but agree to disagree. We see in Scripture that the evidence of being Spirit-filled was for Christians to speak the Word of God boldly:

Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel... Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. (Acts 4:8,13)

And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:.. And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. (Acts 4:24,31)

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Sorry, I've heard that argument for so many years now and it is flawed at a very basic level.
There is a difference between 'will cease' future tense and have ceased past. They will cease. Did Paul give you a date for that? He wrote that knowledge will cease as well. Did he give you a date? 71AD?

9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Are we face to face with The Lord God yet? We need the gifts of The Holy Spirit Still.

The Holy spirit does not force himself on people. There is no requirement for speaking in tongues but it is wrong of you to try to keep people from putting on his power.

1 Thessalonians 5

16 Rejoice always, 17 pray continually, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.


19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22 reject every kind of evil

 

[Demi777]

Every time someone talks about something spiritual people come in arguing about tongues i am so tired of it

 

[stonesoffire]

Christians who do not speak in tongues are not "hostile" about modern tongues. But they understand that just as Paul had clearly stated "whether there be tongues THEY SHALL CEASE" (1 Cor 13:8), the genuine gift of supernaturally spoken LANGUAGES did cease upon the completion of Scripture, and the cessation of prophecies, tongues, and (supernatural) knowledge. Had the KJV translators consistently translated glossa/glossais as language(s) (supernaturally spoken by those who did not know them), we would not have what is known as "the Tongues Movement".

Now there are some here who believe that they speak a "prayer language" which they call "speaking in tongues". But the biblical gift of tongues is NOT a prayer language at all. It is human language clearly spoken supernaturally as we see in Acts 2. There is a verse or two in 1 Corinthians that appears to suggest a prayer language, but on closer inspection that is not what it about.

So there are a number of reasons why many genuine Christians do not accept the modern phenomenon of "tongues":

1. The doctrine postulated by Pentecostal churches is that tongues are evidence that the person speaking has become "Spirit-filled". Which means that those who do not are not Spirit-filled. Which means that there are two classes of Christians in existence, with those being Spirit-filled as spiritually superior to those not speaking in tongues.

2. Modern tongues are generally babbling, and hence called glossolalia, not glossais. Well there is no Scriptural support for such a phenomenon. Furthermore, people are being coached to speak this way, which again is not Scriptural.

3. Women are known to speak in tongues publicly in Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. This is a clear violation of God's instructions through Paul -- in this context -- that women are to keep silent in the churches (1 Cor 14:34,35).

4. Frequently gatherings where tongues are being spoken are also know to have some very disorderly behavior within the assembly. This is in violation of 1 Cor 14:40.

5. Tongues were a sign for unbelieving Jews to prove that the Gospel was of Divine origin (1 Cor 14:20-23), and therefore the miraculous manifestation of tongues was evident in the Apostolic Churches. But the time came when Paul turned away from the Jews and went to the Gentiles, and Gentiles began to predominate the churches. Thus we do not hear of tongues being spoken after the end of the first century, until the Montanists came on the scene (late 2nd century) and they were not well-regarded. It was not until the Azusa Street Revival in the early 20th century that the modern Tongues Movement began.

What needs to happen is that neither tongues-speakers nor non-tongues-speakers need to be contentious about this issue, but agree to disagree. We see in Scripture that the evidence of being Spirit-filled was for Christians to speak the Word of God boldly:

Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel... Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. (Acts 4:8,13)

And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:.. And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. (Acts 4:24,31)

Nehemiah

then Peter, being filled with the Holy Ghost....this is the prophetic gift of prophecy. It comes from your very inner being, and it's a word spoken in power. This is not preaching as many do on a Sunday morn.

Peter had repented before Jesus of his denial, and he as well as others received the breath of God, the Spirit of Christ before Pentecost. Jesus, breathed on them and said, receive you my Holy Spirit. And He tells them to wait for the power. The anointing of Holy Spirit who comes upon one with giftings and to release His power for witnessing, and for living.

Tongues is not babbling. It's a language spoken in earthly but also heavenly languages. With actual words but not your native tongue.

It doesn't need to be taught. And it can happen anywhere, not necessarily in a meeting but privately at home too.

For some it may take the laying on of hands. Others not. There is no rule to how one receives. And it is a baptism. It can happen at ones water baptism, and others later.

But, the truth is, it happens and it's the way Jesus functioned. It's how He knew what was in men's hearts. That's a gift too.

Some say He even spoke in the Spirit too, and that when the disciples asked Him to teach them how to,pray, they were referring to tongues. But, it wasn't the timing for Pentecost. He had to leave first. I fully believe this is plausible.

Im always amazed how people who deny the gifts are for today, seem to have a lot to say about something they don't believe in.

If you are anointed to do, you will know it.

 

[stonesoffire]

Every time someone talks about something spiritual people come in arguing about tongues i am so tired of it

Its going to happen till doomsday Demi. And it's too bad because the church would be a real force in the world. A lot of wasted years have occurred.

Tongues is very important to the individual believer.

But, there's outpourings happening everywhere in the world. And I'm excited!

 

[stonesoffire]

Not all in the NT spoke in tongues! And why we cant find the teaching which you proclaim concern the speaking in tongues before 1900 in the church during the churchhistorie? And why you must takeing the verses in acts out of the context for to explain your teachings?
Maby because their is no teaching in the early church which proof that speaking in tongues is the sign that somebody is baptised with the Holy Spirit?

How do you think that they knew people had received? They heard something come from their mouths! And when they saw they had received.....

think wolf. Don't be unbelieving.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Not all in the NT spoke in tongues! And why we cant find the teaching which you proclaim concern the speaking in tongues before 1900 in the church during the churchhistorie? And why you must takeing the verses in acts out of the context for to explain your teachings?
Maby because their is no teaching in the early church which proof that speaking in tongues is the sign that somebody is baptised with the Holy Spirit?

What are you trying to say here?

Does Book of Acts describe them speaking in tongues or doesn't it? Do you have a different Book of Acts to mine?
Are you calling people liars?
They spoke in tongues. Stop carrying on as if it isn't biblical.

 

[notuptome]

What are you trying to say here?

Does Book of Acts describe them speaking in tongues or doesn't it? Do you have a different Book of Acts to mine?
Are you calling people liars?
They spoke in tongues. Stop carrying on as if it isn't biblical.

Tongues in the book of Acts is a historical account. The purpose behind the events and the audience for the events have changed. Tongues are not an evidence of salvation. Tongues in the book of Acts are a witness to the Jews that Jesus was the promised Messiah.

Evidence of our salvation is the new man created when we are converted. Inwardly we have the witness of the Holy Spirit with our spirit that we are the Lords.

To teach that tongues are for today is to teach unsound doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[wolfwint]

What are you trying to say here?

Does Book of Acts describe them speaking in tongues or doesn't it? Do you have a different Book of Acts to mine?
Are you calling people liars?
They spoke in tongues. Stop carrying on as if it isn't biblical.

Notuptome has given already the response. You cant find in the scripture a teaching which says that everybody who is baptised with the Holy Spirit has given as sign to speak in tongues. You realy have to put verses out of thedoctrine and from different books for to support/create this doctrine.
I would agree with this teaching, if I would find in the bible.

 

[wolfwint]

Sorry, i meant " out of the context"

 

[wolfwint]

How do you think that they knew people had received? They heard something come from their mouths! And when they saw they had received.....

think wolf. Don't be unbelieving.

I try . The verses in acts speak from a historical fact of the coming of the Holy Spirit. The events in acts 8, 10 and 19 where recordet for to show to the jews, that gentiles, Samaritians and the disciples of John can get the same salvation and the same Holy Spirit like they received in acts 2. Otherwise the jews never would accept that God has also salvation through Jesus Christ for them. So God must gave Peter an extra expierience(acts 10) for that he could understand Gods Plan.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Notuptome has given already the response. You cant find in the scripture a teaching which says that everybody who is baptised with the Holy Spirit has given as sign to speak in tongues. You realy have to put verses out of thedoctrine and from different books for to support/create this doctrine.
I would agree with this teaching, if I would find in the bible.

I see. Sorry to be arguing cross-purposes then, I don't believe it MUST occur. Only that it CAN. And sometimes does.

 

[star]

I agree we Christians must not be continuous over this one particular issue, speaking in tongues.

The only thing I find continuous about it is whenever it is said one is not filled with the HS unless one expresses speaking in tongues.

I find this to be associated with "one is not saved unless one produces works"

During my Christian walk, I have had times of extreme filling with the HS and that closeness with God is overwhelming.

We brothers and sisters need to accept that God communes with us as individuals and thus because we are individually different, He communes with each in a unique way.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Sorry, I've heard that argument for so many years now and it is flawed at a very basic level.
There is a difference between 'will cease' future tense and have ceased past. They will cease.

Since there are about twenty spiritual gifts, we need to ask ourselves why Paul selected only the THREE gifts which are all related to Divine revelation and say that they would cease? Because he anticipated prophetically that Scripture would be completed by 90 AD, therefore Divine revelations would cease and that (not He who is perfect) which was perfect or complete -- the Bible -- would be completed.

The strongest evidence that those three gifts ceased is that there is no mention of tongues speaking by the Apostolic Church Fathers (1st and 2nd centuries). Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Polycarp, Papias did not mention the necessity or prevalence of tongues.

 

[ruach]

Since there are about twenty spiritual gifts, we need to ask ourselves why Paul selected only the THREE gifts which are all related to Divine revelation and say that they would cease? Because he anticipated prophetically that Scripture would be completed by 90 AD, therefore Divine revelations would cease and that (not He who is perfect) which was perfect or complete -- the Bible -- would be completed.

The strongest evidence that those three gifts ceased is that there is no mention of tongues speaking by the Apostolic Church Fathers (1st and 2nd centuries). Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Polycarp, Papias did not mention the necessity or prevalence of tongues.

Tongues are not a revelation gift, tongues, prophecy and interpretation of tongues are all vocal gifts.

Revelation gifts are: word of wisdom, word of knowledge wand discerning of spirits.

Power gifts are: faith, working of miracles and gifts of healing