Stoning vs Beheading

[Ella85]

I had an interesting conversation with a lady today in relation to Christianity's form of punishment from the OT (stoning) and Muslim's form of punishment (beheading).

She had no understanding of Christianity and how either one of these punishments were justified enough to put someone to death.
She then continued to explain how both religions were just as bad as the other if they both teach to murder.

As a Christian how would you explain to someone who is non religious, who does not understand the difference between the two punishments and how they compare?

 

[pastac]

The word says that anything you say will be foolishness unto to them. If she has no biblical foundation it is basically a waste of time( Waste of time in the attempts to explain spiritual things) unless she is interested in receiving Christ its just a bunch of jibberish to her or any in that position of no understanding. But one sure fire approach is to try to see if she is interested in learning about Christ before getting into deep discussions like that because it can be difficult to explain as you have found out.
pastac

 

[Ella85]

The word says that anything you say will be foolishness unto to them. If she has no biblical foundation it is basically a waste of time( Waste of time in the attempts to explain spiritual things) unless she is interested in receiving Christ its just a bunch of jibberish to her or any in that position of no understanding. But one sure fire approach is to try to see if she is interested in learning about Christ before getting into deep discussions like that because it can be difficult to explain as you have found out.
pastac

I agree with this for sure. She really did not care about either one, but was fixated on proving her point how both are just as bad as the other.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

No help in such discussions.
One could just as well make a statement about Americans because they once had slaves, or Norwegians because they once went on Viking raids. Times change.

 

[john832]

I had an interesting conversation with a lady today in relation to Christianity's form of punishment from the OT (stoning) and Muslim's form of punishment (beheading).

She had no understanding of Christianity and how either one of these punishments were justified enough to put someone to death.
She then continued to explain how both religions were just as bad as the other if they both teach to murder.

As a Christian how would you explain to someone who is non religious, who does not understand the difference between the two punishments and how they compare?

How can you take them out of context and out of society, place them in a vacuum and the explain them. I can't.

 

[Rachel20]

Well, I thought about Jesus and the woman caught in adultery, who was meant to be stoned by a crowd.

Jesus said, whoever has not sinned, let them throw the first stone. Christianity, is about forgiveness. Not the Law which we all fall short by.

It is about God who in His mercy showed us compassion and love.

There is no comparison to Islam which follows brutal practices against women and offenders without forgiveness.

Also, I would ask her if she supports capital punishment in any form.

If she does, then I would tell her that stoning or beheading someone is the same as a lethal injection seeing that they all achieve the same purpose.

 

[1still_waters]

This is really something I've struggled to understand also.

Muslims now days stone people, as well as behead, we find offense with that.

Yet God in the Bible ordered stoning of others, and we don't find offense.
God ordered wiping out men, women, children in towns, and we don't find the same offense as when we see it now days from Muslims.

As Bible believing Christians, we have to accept that there was a point in time that doing these things was the correct thing to do, because God commanded it done. So how do we deal with this? How do we deal with this without ignoring or denying it? Because face it, that's what many do.

The answer for me is found in Jesus.

The same God who ordered that in the OT is the same one who took that in the NT on the cross.
What happened in the OT pointed toward Christ, and in the NT we experience Christ taking the punishment for our sins.

In the light of Jesus, those who find objection to God based on those OT events, in the light of Jesus those objections wash away, because Jesus is the answer to all objections to God. Foolishness to some, but to us who are being saved, it's the wisdom of God.

 

[Agricola]

I agree with this for sure. She really did not care about either one, but was fixated on proving her point how both are just as bad as the other.

SO she was trying to justify all religion is evil because it condones cruel execution methods. I see how ignorant she is to start with, saying beheading is Islamic form of execution and is proberbly an opinion only based from watching beheadings online, which are on the whole done with blunt knives and taking ages. I have seen proper executions where person is beheaded with a sword and they are clean quick and swift, one downward stroke does the job. When it came to killing off thousands of the aristocracy the French sped the process up with the Guillotine.

When it comes to people like this there is no point in discussing things with them, or at least do not fall for the bait and the trap they are trying to set. Anyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence will realise that all cultures and societies through history have death penalties, its only in more "enlightened" ages we are seeing an end of these practices in so called civilised western nations.

There are countless more brutal forms of execution, some taking days for the person to die in absolute agony and pain, which makes stoning a more preferable way to die.

Couple of examples Greeks had the Brazen Bull where people were locked inside and fire set beneth it, the bull was designed so that the sound waves of the screams would be acoustically changed to sound like bellowing of a bull. Chinese and Japanese executions were also brutal, you may have heard of the Death of a Thousand Cuts, which involved slowly cutting small pieces of skin off over course of a few hours.

I could go on, but there is no point, if people want to reasarch this stuff, its easy to look up.

 

[dcontroversal]

Much can be pondered about this for sure......I have read all posts up to my post and agree with what all have said so far.....
To me I would point out the obvious differences found between the Bible and the Koran.....and would make the following points....

1. If she does not know Jesus and biblical salvation she will not understand the principles behind the O.T. and God's command to punish offences by stoning.
2. God was bringing His plan to fruition (to reveal himself to humanity) and in order for grace, forgiveness and the proof of sinfulness to be known, as well as the blessings, grace and mercy found in the salvation of sinful men/women God had to establish and vindicate His Holiness and WHY humanity needed redemption from sin.
3. The bible's origin as opposed to the Koran which proves it is different and the (whys) that punishment was meted out and required.
4. That ultimately the judgments of God pointed to mercy and grace found in Jesus
5. The difference between God who is God and Allah which was the Moon god sin in Ur of the Chaldees before being renamed and proclaimed by ONE man as opposed to the bible which had 40 plus authors over a period of 1600 years and contains the words of or from Kings, priests, shepherds, warriors, fruit gatherers, prophets, slaves, men, women, child, angels, demons, the devil, an animal (donkey) etc.

Really, at the end of the day I suppose it comes down to post number 2......if she does not know Jesus as her savior and has a born again spirit she will not be able to reason in a biblical manner so as to be able to comprehend the whys of the bible when it comes to the O.T. and God's command to stone to death sinners and or to raze whole cities to the ground which involved the death of everything, including men, women and children......

 

[sassylady]

No person who is not a Christian will understand either type of punishment. They will only see God as a bad God

 

[Flamingspirit]

I had an interesting conversation with a lady today in relation to Christianity's form of punishment from the OT (stoning) and Muslim's form of punishment (beheading).

She had no understanding of Christianity and how either one of these punishments were justified enough to put someone to death.
She then continued to explain how both religions were just as bad as the other if they both teach to murder.

As a Christian how would you explain to someone who is non religious, who does not understand the difference between the two punishments and how they compare?

By being honest with yourself in letting her know that there is no difference. Both equal death. And just as we are to love and not stone out brothers to death, they are to love and not behead their brothers the same!

 

[AbbeyJoy]

You should tell her the story of Jesus on how he had forgiven the women and told the Pharisees that He is without sin to cast the first stone. For Jesus doesn't agree with stoning..

 

[jeff_peacemkr]

I haven't met many of anybody who understands anything Scriptural. Not many. Just a few.

More than anyone else ? The Jews understand - through them Yhvh entrusted the Torah/Scripture; and through them Salvation came to the gentiles.

A lot of Jews, according to one named tortured for christ ... er.... richard wurmbrand, through the holocaust ,
don't become 'christian' because christians have so messed up the Scripture. They, the Jews, know this....

Yhvh sent an old man to richard, or the other way 'round-sent richard to the old man, in the mountain town, as Yhvh's answer to prayer. The old man knew it was blessed to bless a Jew, and prayed to Yhvh to send a Jew to him because he couldn't go to where the Jews were. Yhvh did... and the rest of the story is LIFE ! - and tremendous testimony of Yeshua and the blood of the Lamb of Yhvh through richard wurmbrand's LIFE ! as His servant after that....

re the post: 'christians' i've met all across the usa and to mexico and canada have NO IDEA , none, what is happening today.
for testifying of Jesus, saved by His blood,
the believers all over the world are being PUT TO DEATH, besides also arrested, tortured with their wives and babies, ... and worse. (whole towns just wiped out, because of their FAITH IN JESUS)..... this year(2014, 13, 12, ... every year...)...
today.
it is happening. and the believers in Scripture are CRYING OUT LOUD TO YHVH THE CREATOR>> VENGEANCE ! come quickly and execute YOUR VENGEANCE YHVH on earth against those who have shed innocent blood mercilessly and viciously...
and
HIS ANSWER ? how come 'christians' don't know ? ...... look it up in Revelation...

No person who is not a Christian will understand either type of punishment. They will only see God as a bad God

 

[jeff_peacemkr]

re stoning: (and how crucifixion was done): that MESSIAH willingly accepted HIMSELF!

EXEC - Essene Nazarean Church of Mount Carmel

Obviously, the Essenes, as we have mentioned earlier, were fully aware that the Sadducean penalty included hanging an individual alive on the tree.essene.com/History&Essenes/Exec.htm

You should tell her the story of Jesus on how he had forgiven the women and told the Pharisees that He is without sin to cast the first stone. For Jesus doesn't agree with stoning..

 

[VCO]

I had an interesting conversation with a lady today in relation to Christianity's form of punishment from the OT (stoning) and Muslim's form of punishment (beheading).

She had no understanding of Christianity and how either one of these punishments were justified enough to put someone to death.
She then continued to explain how both religions were just as bad as the other if they both teach to murder.

As a Christian how would you explain to someone who is non religious, who does not understand the difference between the two punishments and how they compare?

><>t<><

First of all, I would explain to her, that GOD's rules for Personal Conduct and not the same as GOD's rules for Governmental Conduct.

Thou shalt not kill - is a rule for Personal Conduct, in fact the word kill means to commit murder.

Take a life for a life eye and an eye and a tooth for a tooth, etc. - is a rule for Governmental Conduct where GOD is commanding those in charge of a nation to set up a fair justice system that makes punishment fit the crime.

Then I would show her this portion of Scripture:

Romans 13:1-7 (NIV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

For the SAME REASON, an Officer of the Law or a Military Personnel, does not commit murder when He pulls the trigger in the line of duty, BECAUSE he or she is acting in the line of duty. However by the same token, if the same Officer or Soldier kills a prisoner out of hate or revenge for a fallen fellow Officer or Soldier, that then would be murder.

Even in this scenario where two men are fighting and a pregnant woman steps between them to stop the fight, and one hits her in the stomach causing her fetus to be aborted still born, GOD WANTS MURDER CHARGES TO BE FILED, and the Death Penalty applied. Clearly the you in verse 23 below, is the Court System that we see mentioned in the previous verse. NO WAY IS GOD ALLOWING PERSONAL REVENGE.

Exodus 21:22-25 (NIV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
[SUP]25 [/SUP] burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

If we are always complaining that there is no point, because the government is a always corrupt, perhaps it is because we Christians are not praying for our politicians ruling over this Country as we are commanded to.


1 Timothy 2:1-4 (ISV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] First of all, then, I urge you to offer petitions, prayers, intercessions, and expressions of thanks for all people,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] for kings, and for everyone who has authority, so that we can lead a quiet and peaceful life with all godliness and dignity.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] who wants all people to be saved and to come to a full knowledge of the truth.

 

[VCO]

Sorry about the typo in the first line:

First of all, I would explain to her, that GOD's rules for Personal Conduct are not the same as GOD's rules for Governmental Conduct.


And I might add that Officers and Military Personnel who fire there weapons are not guilty of "thou shalt not kill", because they are functioning as an arm of Government.

 

[pastac]

><>t<><

First of all, I would explain to her, that GOD's rules for Personal Conduct and not the same as GOD's rules for Governmental Conduct.

Thou shalt not kill - is a rule for Personal Conduct, in fact the word kill means to commit murder.

Take a life for a life eye and an eye and a tooth for a tooth, etc. - is a rule for Governmental Conduct where GOD is commanding those in charge of a nation to set up a fair justice system that makes punishment fit the crime.

Then I would show her this portion of Scripture:

Romans 13:1-7 (NIV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

For the SAME REASON, an Officer of the Law or a Military Personnel, does not commit murder when He pulls the trigger in the line of duty, BECAUSE he or she is acting in the line of duty. However by the same token, if the same Officer or Soldier kills a prisoner out of hate or revenge for a fallen fellow Officer or Soldier, that then would be murder.

Even in this scenario where two men are fighting and a pregnant woman steps between them to stop the fight, and one hits her in the stomach causing her fetus to be aborted still born, GOD WANTS MURDER CHARGES TO BE FILED, and the Death Penalty applied. Clearly the you in verse 23 below, is the Court System that we see mentioned in the previous verse. NO WAY IS GOD ALLOWING PERSONAL REVENGE.

Exodus 21:22-25 (NIV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
[SUP]25 [/SUP] burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

If we are always complaining that there is no point, because the government is a always corrupt, perhaps it is because we Christians are not praying for our politicians ruling over this Country as we are commanded to.


1 Timothy 2:1-4 (ISV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] First of all, then, I urge you to offer petitions, prayers, intercessions, and expressions of thanks for all people,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] for kings, and for everyone who has authority, so that we can lead a quiet and peaceful life with all godliness and dignity.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] who wants all people to be saved and to come to a full knowledge of the truth.

This makes absolutely no sense at all the woman could care less and this would bolster her argument. Come on any reasonable approach is to take the less is more approach this would send her into overload it almost sent me in overload and I believe. Sometimes too much is just too much! Did you forget she said this is a unbeliever and this is you approach? Do you win many souls this way I;m curious to know?
pastac

 

[pastac]

I haven't met many of anybody who understands anything Scriptural. Not many. Just a few.

More than anyone else ? The Jews understand - through them Yhvh entrusted the Torah/Scripture; and through them Salvation came to the gentiles.

A lot of Jews, according to one named tortured for christ ... er.... richard wurmbrand, through the holocaust ,
don't become 'christian' because christians have so messed up the Scripture. They, the Jews, know this....

Yhvh sent an old man to richard, or the other way 'round-sent richard to the old man, in the mountain town, as Yhvh's answer to prayer. The old man knew it was blessed to bless a Jew, and prayed to Yhvh to send a Jew to him because he couldn't go to where the Jews were. Yhvh did... and the rest of the story is LIFE ! - and tremendous testimony of Yeshua and the blood of the Lamb of Yhvh through richard wurmbrand's LIFE ! as His servant after that....

re the post: 'christians' i've met all across the usa and to mexico and canada have NO IDEA , none, what is happening today.
for testifying of Jesus, saved by His blood,
the believers all over the world are being PUT TO DEATH, besides also arrested, tortured with their wives and babies, ... and worse. (whole towns just wiped out, because of their FAITH IN JESUS)..... this year(2014, 13, 12, ... every year...)...
today.
it is happening. and the believers in Scripture are CRYING OUT LOUD TO YHVH THE CREATOR>> VENGEANCE ! come quickly and execute YOUR VENGEANCE YHVH on earth against those who have shed innocent blood mercilessly and viciously...
and
HIS ANSWER ? how come 'christians' don't know ? ...... look it up in Revelation...

This statement in red alone leads me to think you think more highly of yourself than ye ought. You have no idea how many intelligent people are on this site because you dismiss their understanding as inferior to yours not fair, not scriptural and not true just a few understand like you may be a blessing it is clear you miss some very key scriptural positions on several issues.
pastac

 

[kennethcadwell]

I had an interesting conversation with a lady today in relation to Christianity's form of punishment from the OT (stoning) and Muslim's form of punishment (beheading).

She had no understanding of Christianity and how either one of these punishments were justified enough to put someone to death.
She then continued to explain how both religions were just as bad as the other if they both teach to murder.

As a Christian how would you explain to someone who is non religious, who does not understand the difference between the two punishments and how they compare?

First, I would tell her how the Mosaic covenant was given to the Jews and not to Christians.

Second, I would tell her that the new covenant we our under that the Christians go by is about love, mercy, and forgiveness.

Third, I would tell her that the love and mercy that was taught was overlooked by the Jews to continue to punish certain sins.

Fourth, I would show her how in the new covenant our Lord Jesus showed us examples not to use capital punishment on others for the sins they committed because none of has the right to make that judgment call on another's life for we are all guilty of sin and deserving of death. But through His grace, love, mercy, and forgiveness to us we are to show that same love, mercy, and forgiveness to others.

 

[VCO]

This makes absolutely no sense at all the woman could care less and this would bolster her argument. Come on any reasonable approach is to take the less is more approach this would send her into overload it almost sent me in overload and I believe. Sometimes too much is just too much! Did you forget she said this is a unbeliever and this is you approach? Do you win many souls this way I;m curious to know?
pastac

Since when are we not to tell Unbelievers the Truth?

Since when are we supposed tell Unbelievers a watered down half Truth, (making it a lie), just to make it more palatable to them?

I am sorry, but I will always declare the whole council of GOD to anyone who asks.

Acts 20:27 (NKJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.