Stoning vs Beheading

[maxwel]

I had an interesting conversation with a lady today in relation to Christianity's form of punishment from the OT (stoning) and Muslim's form of punishment (beheading).

She had no understanding of Christianity and how either one of these punishments were justified enough to put someone to death.
She then continued to explain how both religions were just as bad as the other if they both teach to murder.

As a Christian how would you explain to someone who is non religious, who does not understand the difference between the two punishments and how they compare?

I would NOT try to explain how capital punishment differs between Islam and Judaism.

I would point out her own hypocrisy about capital punishment.

The average atheist in the modern world believes:
- it's RIGHT to KILL an INNOCENT BABY in the womb
- it's WRONG to KILL a WICKED, CONVICTED MURDERER.

Skip her question and ask your own.
Ask her why she believes in killing the innocent, and sparing the wicked.

 

[VCO]

First, I would tell her how the Mosaic covenant was given to the Jews and not to Christians.

Second, I would tell her that the new covenant we our under that the Christians go by is about love, mercy, and forgiveness.

Third, I would tell her that the love and mercy that was taught was overlooked by the Jews to continue to punish certain sins.

Fourth, I would show her how in the new covenant our Lord Jesus showed us examples not to use capital punishment on others for the sins they committed because none of has the right to make that judgment call on another's life for we are all guilty of sin and deserving of death. But through His grace, love, mercy, and forgiveness to us we are to show that same love, mercy, and forgiveness to others.

Your theory does not square with New Testament Scripture, pertaining to Governments responsibility to establish a fair justice system.

And if it is your theory the O.T. LAW does not apply to Christians, that too would be hard to square with what Christ Himself taught.

Romans 13:1-7 (NIV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Matthew 5:18 (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. {My understanding is that a jot is like the dot over an i and a tittle is like the crossing of a t.}

 

[kennethcadwell]

Your theory does not square with New Testament Scripture, pertaining to Governments responsibility to establish a fair justice system.

And if it is your theory the O.T. LAW does not apply to Christians, that too would be hard to square with what Christ Himself taught.

Romans 13:1-7 (NIV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Matthew 5:18 (NKJV)
[SUP]18[/SUP] For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. {My understanding is that a jot is like the dot over an i and a tittle is like the crossing of a t.}

Another example of misuse of Romans 13.
I have a thread started about this misuse of that chapter. We are to follow and obey the laws of the land unless they contradict God's. Our Lord Jesus told us in the new covenant we are under to show love, mercy, and forgiveness to everybody. Not to just fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, so if the Lord our God who shows no personal favoritism waves capital punishment on sins in three cases ( John 8, John 5, and Luke 6 ) then He would have us use this as an example that as a believer in Him we would show the same mercy toward others and their sins.

Our governing authorities do not always do things that are acceptable to God, and to say we have to obey laws they make that are contradictory to what He taught of love, mercy, and forgiveness then we are not to follow them over His. If we do that makes us guilty of their sin as well, but supporting it.

 

[pastac]

Since when are we not to tell Unbelievers the Truth?

Since when are we supposed tell Unbelievers a watered down half Truth, (making it a lie), just to make it more palatable to them?

I am sorry, but I will always declare the whole council of GOD to anyone who asks.

Acts 20:27 (NKJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.

You do tell unbelievers the truth. Yet you do it with Godly wisdom and not head knowledge. The word both draws men and repels men it convicts men and converts men, it angers men and it restores men. it can turn wrong right, it can set free them that are held captive in their mind or their thinking or actually in bondages or even physical jail, yet it will all depend on their motives. I am wise enough to know you cant cast pearls before swine! I am wise enough to know that we cant let our good be evil spoken of! I am wise enough to know that we know only in part! So I get what we want to do with believers but all don't have the tools or wisdom to do so they just think they do!
pastac

 

[pastac]

First, I would tell her how the Mosaic covenant was given to the Jews and not to Christians.

Second, I would tell her that the new covenant we our under that the Christians go by is about love, mercy, and forgiveness.

Third, I would tell her that the love and mercy that was taught was overlooked by the Jews to continue to punish certain sins.

Fourth, I would show her how in the new covenant our Lord Jesus showed us examples not to use capital punishment on others for the sins they committed because none of has the right to make that judgment call on another's life for we are all guilty of sin and deserving of death. But through His grace, love, mercy, and forgiveness to us we are to show that same love, mercy, and forgiveness to others.

This is a problem Kenneth that you would discuss this with an unbeliever? How are you going to convince them speaking things that the word has already told you would be received as foolishness to them, that is counterproductive and shows no wisdom. You keep making these points but fail to see the key. (This is a hard core Unbeliever) in the op and wanted no parts of the truth so now you plan to convince with a ot history lesson come on!
pastac

 

[pastac]

I would NOT try to explain how capital punishment differs between Islam and Judaism.

I would point out her own hypocrisy about capital punishment.

The average atheist in the modern world believes:
- it's RIGHT to KILL an INNOCENT BABY in the womb
- it's WRONG to KILL a WICKED, CONVICTED MURDERER.

Skip her question and ask your own.
Ask her why she believes in killing the innocent, and sparing the wicked.

Very interesting points and somewhat accurate the way you presented it
pastac

 

[VCO]

Another example of misuse of Romans 13.
I have a thread started about this misuse of that chapter. We are to follow and obey the laws of the land unless they contradict God's. Our Lord Jesus told us in the new covenant we are under to show love, mercy, and forgiveness to everybody. Not to just fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, so if the Lord our God who shows no personal favoritism waves capital punishment on sins in three cases ( John 8, John 5, and Luke 6 ) then He would have us use this as an example that as a believer in Him we would show the same mercy toward others and their sins.

Our governing authorities do not always do things that are acceptable to God, and to say we have to obey laws they make that are contradictory to what He taught of love, mercy, and forgiveness then we are not to follow them over His. If we do that makes us guilty of their sin as well, but supporting it.

><>t<><

I am a firm believer in Capital Punishment, and believe it is a what GOD meant by an eye for an eye.

I am a firm believer that Capital Punishiment, was intended to be public, so that it is a literal deterrent to for future murders.

I believe this nation is reaping an ever increase violent crimes because we are not following GOD's will by punishing crime an eye for an eye.

YES, I believe ROMANS 13 should be taking Literally by all Christians, and I certainly am not alone, and I DO NOT BELIEVE IN TEACHING A WATERED DOWN GOSPEL.

Commentary on ROMANS:
13:4-5. Furthermore, a civil leader is God's servant, a concept often forgotten today. By commending those who do right (v. 3), a civil leader himself does good (v. 4). But on the other hand he bears arms (the sword) as God's servant (the second time in this verse Paul referred to the ruler this way; cf. v. 6), as an agent of wrath. Governmental force, properly used, helps prevent tyranny and executes justice; it brings punishment on the wrongdoer. A Christian has two reasons to be submissive to civil authorities—to avoid possible punishment (lit., "the wrath") and to heed his conscience, which prods him to obey God's ordinances.

The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

Commentary on Romans:
13:4 The ruler, whether president, governor, mayor, or judge, is a minister of God in the sense that he is a servant and representative of the Lord. He may not know God personally, but he is still the Lord's man officially. Thus David repeatedly referred to the wicked King Saul as the Lord's anointed (1 Sam. 24:6, 10; 26:9, 11, 16, 23). In spite of Saul's repeated attempts on David's life, the latter would not allow his men to harm the king. Why? Because Saul was the king, and as such he was the Lord's appointee.
As servants of God, rulers are expected to promote the good of the people—their security, tranquility, and general welfare. If any man insists on breaking the law, he can expect to pay for it, because the government has the authority to bring him to trial and punish him. In the expression he does not bear the sword in vain we have a strong statement concerning the power which God vests in the government. The sword is not just an innocuous symbol of power; a scepter would have served that purpose. The sword seems to speak of the ultimate power of the ruler—that is, to inflict capital punishment. So it will not do to say that capital punishment was for the OT era only and not for the New. Here is a statement in the NT that implies that the government has the authority to take the life of a capital offender. People argue against this by quoting Exodus 20:13 in the KJV: "Thou shalt not kill." But that commandment refers to murder, and capital punishment is not murder. The Hebrew word translated "kill" in the KJV specifically means "murder" and is so translated in the NKJV: "You shall not murder." Capital punishment was prescribed in the OT law as the required punishment for certain serious offenses.
Again the apostle reminds us that the ruler is God's minister, but this time he adds, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. In other words, in addition to being a minister of God to us for good, he also serves God by dispensing punishment to those who break the law.

Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding.

ROMANS 13:1-7The Believer and Governing Authorities

Paul’s instructions for his readers to submit to the governing authorities (13:1) take on greater significance in light of the fact that there were few Christians in authority at the time. Those in charge were largely unfriendly and even hostile to the church. Yet Paul viewed the governing authorities as not only having been established by God, but also as the servants of God (13:4). The Greek word translated as “servant” can also mean “minister,” and is the same word Paul uses to describe the work of a pastor or elder. So Christians are called to submit to their rulers and pray for them, because rebellion against the leaders is considered rebellion against God (13:2).

Demystifying Romans​

A number of Old Testament examples demonstrate the power of a godly person working in conjunction with a secular leader. Joseph had worked with the Egyptian Pharaoh to prepare for and survive a terrible famine (Genesis 41). Daniel had found extreme favor with the kings of Babylon even before impressing Darius the Mede by his faith while in the lions’ den (Daniel 2-6). And others demonstrated the benefits of submitting to the authorities rather than attempting to undermine them.

Paul also reminds his readers that the purpose of the state is to restrain evil and promote a just social order. Government originated as an ordinance of God. While it cannot redeem the world, it can nevertheless set boundaries for human behavior. The state is not a remedy for sin, but it is a means to restrain sin. So cooperation with the authorities, in cases where no spiritual beliefs are compromised, goes a long way in removing potential problems (13:3-5).

Layman's Bible Commentary - Layman's Bible Commentary – Volume 10: Acts thru Corinthians.

Commentary on ROMANS:
13:4 God’s minister... for good. By helping restrain evil and protecting life and property. Paul took advantage of his government’s role in promoting what is good when he exercised his rights as a Roman citizen to obtain justice (Acts 16:37; 22:25, 29; 25:11). bear the sword. This symbolizes the government’s right to inflict punishment on wrongdoers—especially capital punishment (Gen. 9:6; cf. Matt. 26:52; Acts 25:11). to execute wrath. Not God’s wrath, but the punishment inflicted by the civil authorities.

The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

Commentary on ROMANS 13:4
Whatever the persons in authority over us themselves may be, yet the just power they have, must be submitted to and obeyed. In the general course of human affairs, rulers are not a terror to honest, quiet, and good subjects, but to evil-doers. Such is the power of sin and corruption, that many will be kept back from crimes only by the fear of punishment. Thou hast the benefit of the government, therefore do what thou canst to preserve it, and nothing to disturb it. This directs private persons to behave quietly and peaceably where God has set them, 1Ti 2:1, 2.
Matthew Henry Concise Bible Commentary.

Commentary on ROMANS 13:4
He beareth not the sword in vain—His power is delegated to him for the defense and encouragement of the good, and the punishment of the wicked; and he has authority to punish capitally, when the law so requires: this the term sword leads us to infer.
For he is the minister of God, a revenger—Θεοῦ διακονος εστιν εκδικος, For he is God's vindictive minister, to execute wrath; εις οργην, to inflict punishment upon the transgressors of the law; and this according to the statutes of that law; for God's civil ministers are never allowed to pronounce or inflict punishment according to their own minds or feeling, but according to the express declarations of the law.
Adam Clarke's Commentary.

 

[jeff_peacemkr]

so you don't understand . that's expected. there's a few here who do, that i've met just here online onsite, not in person. there's a lot who have posted who show little understanding of Scripture. a few who have shown some understanding.
but all are to me untested - as online it can't actually be determined who's who, who's real, who's not. test everything.

Yeshua Himself said few would find the road to life. Some here probably have. Not many. That's what is written in the Bible. Why argue against what is written? (you don't mean to, i'm sure.... but you just did.)

This statement in red alone leads me to think you think more highly of yourself than ye ought. You have no idea how many intelligent people are on this site because you dismiss their understanding as inferior to yours not fair, not scriptural and not true just a few understand like you may be a blessing it is clear you miss some very key scriptural positions on several issues.
pastac

 

[pastac]

so you don't understand . that's expected. there's a few here who do, that i've met just here online onsite, not in person. there's a lot who have posted who show little understanding of Scripture. a few who have shown some understanding.
but all are to me untested - as online it can't actually be determined who's who, who's real, who's not. test everything.

Yeshua Himself said few would find the road to life. Some here probably have. Not many. That's what is written in the Bible. Why argue against what is written? (you don't mean to, i'm sure.... but you just did.)

You cant be serious and if you are its sad, How about its the other way around and you don't understand? Is that even a consideration for you that is the point. I wont argue with you at all common sense alone lets me know I was studying before you were born now you know more than me or any other believe who was walking with God before you were a thought WOW that makes no sense in any concept of reality.You may be wrong I know that concept may be foreign to you but you keep proving what everyone sees!
pastac

 

[VCO]

so you don't understand . that's expected. there's a few here who do, that i've met just here online onsite, not in person. there's a lot who have posted who show little understanding of Scripture. a few who have shown some understanding.
but all are to me untested - as online it can't actually be determined who's who, who's real, who's not. test everything.

Yeshua Himself said few would find the road to life. Some here probably have. Not many. That's what is written in the Bible. Why argue against what is written? (you don't mean to, i'm sure.... but you just did.)

I agree, it cannot be determined for sure online. WHY?

Matthew 7:20 (ISV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] So by their fruit you will know them."

Galatians 5:22-23 (ISV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against such things.

When one has peach seed sprout that he planted, he cannot realistically expect to see fruit on that sprouting seed for two years. I think He used that symbolism deliberately, so that we would be patient with the baby Christians, KNOWING that if there was a REAL CONVERSION there, in time, if we keep physically watching them, we would see the Spiritual FRUIT, proving their conversion was REAL. That is why it is extremely difficult to see that evidence develop online.

Yes there are a few that I feel a spiritual oneness with by what they say, but ultimately it is their fruit that manifests that they are genuine Christians. I think that a lot of people do not realize that the Parable of the Gates, is only talking about people who claim to Know Jesus. AND to the many that came through the Wide easy gate, He will say, "I NEVER KNEW YOU".

 

[pastac]

I agree, it cannot be determined for sure online. WHY?

Matthew 7:20 (ISV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] So by their fruit you will know them."

Galatians 5:22-23 (ISV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against such things.

When one has peach seed sprout that he planted, he cannot realistically expect to see fruit on that sprouting seed for two years. I think He used that symbolism deliberately, so that we would be patient with the baby Christians, KNOWING that if there was a REAL CONVERSION there, in time, if we keep physically watching them, we would see the Spiritual FRUIT, proving their conversion was REAL. That is why it is extremely difficult to see that evidence develop online.

Yes there are a few that I feel a spiritual oneness with by what they say, but ultimately it is their fruit that manifests that they are genuine Christians. I think that a lot of people do not realize that the Parable of the Gates, is only talking about people who claim to Know Jesus. AND to the many that came through the Wide easy gate, He will say, "I NEVER KNEW YOU".

All of this other stuff being posted is posturing at best. The op is about witnessing to an unbeliever. We know that to be true as it was reported in the op. How to go about it differs with the wisdom many profess to have. Yet the whole truth of the matter is simple you have to use wisdom with unbelievers just as much as you have to with the so called believers, sadly both will not receive the truth if they have no understanding. Behind the words posted you are right you have no idea who is who but my goodness I do see fruit even on cc post sometimes.
pastac

 

[Bookends]

I had an interesting conversation with a lady today in relation to Christianity's form of punishment from the OT (stoning) and Muslim's form of punishment (beheading).

She had no understanding of Christianity and how either one of these punishments were justified enough to put someone to death.
She then continued to explain how both religions were just as bad as the other if they both teach to murder.

As a Christian how would you explain to someone who is non religious, who does not understand the difference between the two punishments and how they compare?

One is a just punishment and the other isn't. The OT brings out that we all fall short and are worthy of death because of sin. God takes sin seriously which is demonstrated by OT Law. God takes sin so seriously that only one without blemish, no sin, could be the only payment for our sin hence we have the Love of God sending His son as a perfect sacrifice while we were yet sinners. I know you know this, but OT Law is God enacting His Justice to each to what is deserved. Other religions is sinful man enacting his self-righteous upon others deserving it or not. What the person you spoke with doesn't understand is that at the foot of the cross is God's Justice and Mercy.

 

[kennethcadwell]

But Jesus said no to and eye for and eye......

[h=2]Matthew 5:38-39[/h]38 "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

><>t<><

I am a firm believer in Capital Punishment, and believe it is a what GOD meant by an eye for an eye.

I am a firm believer that Capital Punishiment, was intended to be public, so that it is a literal deterrent to for future murders.

I believe this nation is reaping an ever increase violent crimes because we are not following GOD's will by punishing crime an eye for an eye.

YES, I believe ROMANS 13 should be taking Literally by all Christians, and I certainly am not alone, and I DO NOT BELIEVE IN TEACHING A WATERED DOWN GOSPEL.

 

[Chopper]

They figured out that beheading was the quickest and least painful way, and actually instituted that as the standard in one swift stroke. The irony to this is the fact of all the word about thousands of guillotines being manufactured and shipped within the last few years, and the noahide laws that are actually on the books in the legal system in many countries.

The noahide law has penalty for a non-Jew saying the name of Yah out loud, or keeping the seventh day sabbath, just to name a few that count as transgressions of that law, which is beheading the offender.

 

[VCO]

You do tell unbelievers the truth. Yet you do it with Godly wisdom and not head knowledge. The word both draws men and repels men it convicts men and converts men, it angers men and it restores men. it can turn wrong right, it can set free them that are held captive in their mind or their thinking or actually in bondages or even physical jail, yet it will all depend on their motives. I am wise enough to know you cant cast pearls before swine! I am wise enough to know that we cant let our good be evil spoken of! I am wise enough to know that we know only in part! So I get what we want to do with believers but all don't have the tools or wisdom to do so they just think they do!
pastac

I did not say TRY TO KICK THE DOORS OPEN, did I?

I said I will ALWAYS tell EVERYONE WHO ASKS, the WHOLE TRUTH.

I do not water down the Word of GOD, because easy believism thinks it should be watered down and sugar coated.

Easy Believism, preaches a Love ONLY Doctrine, which is a FALSE GOSPEL and FALSE DOCTRINE.

Yes, I was Volunteer Protestant Chaplain, in the super max prison that is the end of the line in the California Dept. of Corrections. I do not believe in Scalp Hunting, like many TV Preachers do; so I have no idea of exactly how many that I had the joy and privilege to help led them to receive JESUS CHRIST as LORD, meaning MASTER. Every one was told about BOTH the LOVE OF GOD, and the WRATH of GOD, including the REALITY of the Lake of Fire being the LITERAL Eternal Torment in HELL, that Jesus Christ warned about. My guess is that many more become TRULY BORN AGAIN from Teaching the WHOLE COUNSEL of GOD, than teaching a watered down, love only False GOSPEL.

Apparently you have a major misunderstanding of what casting pearls before swine is.

It has absolutely NOTHING to do with making people accountable for the Truth, and
NOTHING to do with hiding the Truth about GOD's Wrath from them until they accept Jesus;
and then telling them the Rest. THAT is a Psuedo Christian CULT tactic, called bait and switch.

When one has repeatedly rejected the TRUTH, you don't continue to share the Wisdom of GOD with him to give Him more opportunities to trample it underfoot; because that is when it becomes casting pearls before swine.


2 Corinthians 13:2-3 (NIV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] I already gave you a warning when I was with you the second time. I now repeat it while absent: On my return I will not spare those who sinned earlier or any of the others,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] since you are demanding proof that Christ is speaking through me. He is not weak in dealing with you, but is powerful among you.

Titus 3:10-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
[SUP]11 [/SUP] knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.

Jude 1:5 (ESV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

Luke 13:3 (NIV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.


NOW, that should be clear enough, that we tell them about BOTH the LOVE of GOD and the WRATH of GOD, at least twice before we give up on them and refrain from saying more to them, for THAT is WHEN, and not sooner, it becomes casting pearls before swine.

 

[VCO]

All of this other stuff being posted is posturing at best. The op is about witnessing to an unbeliever. We know that to be true as it was reported in the op. How to go about it differs with the wisdom many profess to have. Yet the whole truth of the matter is simple you have to use wisdom with unbelievers just as much as you have to with the so called believers, sadly both will not receive the truth if they have no understanding. Behind the words posted you are right you have no idea who is who but my goodness I do see fruit even on cc post sometimes.
pastac

><>t<><

I learned a lesson decades ago from my elderly Pastor that corrected my witnessing to unbelievers. YES you certainly tell them the whole truth, HOWEVER there is secret to learning how to deliver it. One Sunday morning after my Pastor had seen me witnessing to an unbeliever during the week, he grabbed me by the arm and pulled me into his Office and said, "I have one thing to say to you. Keep it Simple stupid, you were going clean over his head." NO, you do not water it down, but YES, you keep it Simple.

 

[jeff_peacemkr]

that (as you said, cannot see fruit in bits and bytes) plus the internet is patently anonymous. that's why they(the authorities) say don't ever share personal info over the internet..... in most situations....

i'm curious what's worng wid psteg.... and how'd he study anything before he was born ? very curious.....

why is he(or she?) (or a bot?) ('member - the internet is not viable life) so seemingly upset and/or mad ? sad to see....

as for what i post - what i've seen and heard and felt, i post. all truth. simple, unvarnished, plain. (and anonymous, because of critters and hunters prowling.....)

that's the example the writers gave us, isn't it?

I agree, it cannot be determined for sure online. WHY?

Matthew 7:20 (ISV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] So by their fruit you will know them."

Galatians 5:22-23 (ISV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against such things.

When one has peach seed sprout that he planted, he cannot realistically expect to see fruit on that sprouting seed for two years. I think He used that symbolism deliberately, so that we would be patient with the baby Christians, KNOWING that if there was a REAL CONVERSION there, in time, if we keep physically watching them, we would see the Spiritual FRUIT, proving their conversion was REAL. That is why it is extremely difficult to see that evidence develop online.

Yes there are a few that I feel a spiritual oneness with by what they say, but ultimately it is their fruit that manifests that they are genuine Christians. I think that a lot of people do not realize that the Parable of the Gates, is only talking about people who claim to Know Jesus. AND to the many that came through the Wide easy gate, He will say, "I NEVER KNEW YOU".

 

[jeff_peacemkr]

><>t<><

I learned a lesson decades ago from my elderly Pastor that corrected my witnessing to unbelievers. YES you certainly tell them the whole truth, HOWEVER there is secret to learning how to deliver it. One Sunday morning after my Pastor had seen me witnessing to an unbeliever during the week, he grabbed me by the arm and pulled me into his Office and said, "I have one thing to say to you. Keep it Simple stupid, you were going clean over his head." NO, you do not water it down, but YES, you keep it Simple.

ahhhh...... i should have read this first, before posting earlier or yesterday !? ......ooops.... can't go back in time tho, kani ?

 

[VCO]

But Jesus said no to and eye for and eye......

Matthew 5:38-39

38 "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye,and tooth for tooth.'
39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

><>t<><


OF COURSE HE SAID THAT, because they were trying use that verse to try JUSTIFY personal REVENGE, which is NEVER PERMITTED.

THAT IN NO WAY CHANGES GOD's RULE for Governmental Conduct, where they ARE commanded by GOD to set up a FAIR justice System makes the PUNISHMENT FIT THE CRIME.

Dr. John MacArthur, Jr.

We can thank God for the institution of government. Though the worst of it may disappoint us or even persecute us, without government we would slaughter each other. And when this is not done, this kind of punishment, there is blood guiltiness. You remember after Cain killed Abel, Scripture says in Genesis 4 that Abel’s blood cried out from the ground. Many texts in the scriptures indicate that. God required the death penalty for the preservation of life.
In Numbers 35:33, it says, “So you shall not pollute the land in which you are for blood pollutes the land and no expiation can be made for the land for the blood that is shed on it except by the blood of him who shed it.” A nation of murderers has unrequited blood that can only be mitigated by the death of the ones who shed blood.
The implications of this in the criminal world are vast as tens of thousands of people sit on death row, even more. The implications are almost incalculable for those who have slaughtered unborn infants. Nothing shows more clearly the moral bankruptcy of our society than the breakdown in concern for the sanctity of life and for the swiftness of the death penalty on those who take a life.
And by the way, isn’t it odd that the people who are against the death penalty are the same ones who promote abortion and want to save the whales and the lab rats? Passivism will receive no encouragement from the New Testament. Harlots are commanded to go and sin no more but soldiers are not asked to resign from the army when they come to Christ...neither are policemen.

[video=youtube;LmnyN3WvhOI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmnyN3WvhOI[/video]

 

[VCO]

ahhhh...... i should have read this first, before posting earlier or yesterday !? ......ooops.... can't go back in time tho, kani ?

Actually I should have explained that with my original post on the subject, but only my hindsight is 20/20.