Strongs Greek: 'of uncertain affinity'

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G

GRA

Guest
#1
"Oh! Look what I found!" (Please see attachment.)

I found the phrase 'of uncertain affinity' attached to 100 different words in Strongs Greek Bible Dictionary.

(A little research, and...)

It is not actually part of the definition of the word. Rather, it is a "comment" or "remark" that is related to the language use of the word and its similarity to other words.

A great many - if not most - of the words in the dictionary have these types of comments/remarks attached to them. (And usually listed first, before the definition begins.)

The phrase essentially means:

"The kinship of this word to other words is unknown." ("at least not with certainty")

It simply means that [Strong] could not connect the word (with certainty) to some other more original word or to a "lower-level" [root] word.

"That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!" :D

:)

.

 

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G

GRA

Guest
#2
Please don't anyone "shoot stilly down" with this... ("Be loving. Be kind. Be nice.")

A quick internet search seems to indicate that most of the rest of the world has bought into the idea that 'chilioi' and 'chilias' are different with regard to the actual number. In truth - grammatically - they are both 1000. One is an adjective, and the other is a noun - which is the most significant difference between the words. Whatever else follows - symbolic or literal, etc. - rests in the context of scripture (based on the grammar and usage of the original language - GREEK).

If you wish, simply consider this "my opinion"... :) (It is O.K. with me.)

See any interesting similarities in the following (compared to 'chilioi') ? :

And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea. ~ Mark 5:13

'dischilioi' => "two thousand"

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. ~ Acts 2:41

'trischilioi' => "three thousand"

Art not thou that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar, and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers? ~ Acts 21:38

'tetrakischilioi' => "four thousand"

But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. ~ Romans 11:4

'heptakischilioi' => "seven thousand"

I also found places where 'chilioi' was used together with a "finite" number as a separate word.

1still_waters:

"Love ya bro... Please re-evaluate..." :)

.
 
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G

GRA

Guest
#3
I also found places where 'chilioi' was used together with a "finite" number as a separate word.
("Which makes no sense if 'chilioi' is indeterminate...")

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1

1still_waters

Guest
#4
Actually my thing still stands without the "uncertain affinity" because the translation is still

"a thousand"

"a thousand" is still different than the number 1000.

Grammatically 1000 is definite and "a thousand" is indefinite.

Thanks for the lesson though. :p

----

The same term is used in 2 Peter 3:8, where 1000 is not used in a definite concrete sense, but rather in an indefinite non-concrete sense.

8 Dear friends, don’t let this one thing escape you: With the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

He's not saying one day is an exact 1000 years. It's an indefinite number to make a point. That's why it says "a thousand", and not 1000.

The Greek in 2 Peter 3:8 is just like in Revelation 20.

-----

As far as trying to make the following the same as "a thousand"

'dischilioi' => "two thousand"
'trischilioi' => "three thousand"
'tetrakischilioi' => "four thousand"
'heptakischilioi' => "seven thousand"

That would be like me saying "a thousand" is the same as one thousand because

three thousand = 3000
four thousand= 4000

One thousand is not, the same as a thousand.

Yes in the Greek 4000 is tetrakischilioi.
In english 4000 is four thousand.

But in the Greek in Rev 20, it is still 'a thousand', not one thousand.

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Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
108
48
#5
Please don't anyone "shoot stilly down" with this... ("Be loving. Be kind. Be nice.")
Oh PUHLEASE!!!! I can't function if I have to be nice to him
 

PopClick

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2011
4,048
131
63
#6
^^Lol. That is all.
 
G

GRA

Guest
#7
(Please see the attached illustration.)

In the N.T. Greek, the word 'chilioi' - in the
grammar of the language - means '1000' -- a definite number -- but, is translated into English as the "loose" phrases 'a thousand' and 'the thousand'.

In the O.T. Hebrew, the word 'eleph' is translated into 'a thousand' and 'the thousand' in the same grammatical manner that the word
'chilioi' is from the N.T. Greek.

In the O.T. and N.T. - collectively - the translators used each of the phrases 'a thousand', 'the thousand', and 'one thousand' BOTH as part of a more complex number AND as a stand-alone '1000'.

The point is - in the grammar of the original language - it IS the number '1000'. The basis for the number being used in an abstract or indefinite sense MUST be determined by the context of the verse where it is found.

Now, with the Greek word 'murias' - there IS a separation in the manner that it is translated into English. The 'indefinite' form translates either as a plural 'thousands' or another phrase not even containing the word 'thousand'. Since this issue is strictly focused on the [singular] word 'thousand', they were not added to the data.

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1

1still_waters

Guest
#8
Based on your image above, chilias would have been the best word for John to use in Revelation 20, if he had meant to convey a definite 1000.

If you notice, chilias is always used in a definite 1000 in your image above.

When chilioi is used above, without any dis/tris/tetra/pentra/hepta in front of it, it is translated "a thousand" 7 out of 10 times. Meaning that a HUGE minority use of it as 1000 appears to be based on translator presuppositions, and not based on actual legit use of it as 1000.

Chilias is clearly the word they'd use if they meant 1000 and not "a thousand".

Notice in the images below, chilioi is used as 'a thousand'.
Notice in the image below 1000 is ONLY associated with chilias.
 

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G

GRA

Guest
#9
"If you will kindly take notice of your image..." (attachment image taken from your image and "enhanced" to make a point)

What is "the product of 10 x 10 x 10"... ? Let's see.......... How about..........


A NUMBER! :eek:

A specific and definite number.

Yeah! :cool:

1000

:)

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G

GRA

Guest
#10
The "prefix" dis/tris/tetrakis/pentakis/heptakis serves as a multiplier. What does it multiply?

Answer: 'chilioi'

(Please see attachment.)

The '1 x' is
implied in 'a thousand' or 'the thousand'...

'chilioi' => "1000"
'chilias' => "a group of 1000" (as a unit)

BOTH are numbers. BOTH are '1000'. The difference in grammatical usage does not change this.

"a thousand" = 1000

Again - the 'definite'-ness of it is determined in the context of scripture -- not in the grammar of the language.

.
 

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1

1still_waters

Guest
#11
"If you will kindly take notice of your image..." (attachment image taken from your image and "enhanced" to make a point)

What is "the product of 10 x 10 x 10"... ? Let's see.......... How about..........


A NUMBER! :eek:

A specific and definite number.

Yeah! :cool:

1000

:)

.
Yeah and in the image of mine you reference and edit..it says 'a thousand'.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#12
The "prefix" dis/tris/tetrakis/pentakis/heptakis serves as a multiplier. What does it multiply?

Answer: 'chilioi'

(Please see attachment.)

The '1 x' is
implied in 'a thousand' or 'the thousand'...

'chilioi' => "1000"
'chilias' => "a group of 1000" (as a unit)

BOTH are numbers. BOTH are '1000'. The difference in grammatical usage does not change this.

"a thousand" = 1000

Again - the 'definite'-ness of it is determined in the context of scripture -- not in the grammar of the language.

.
Yeah and the context of chilioi with a tris in front of it, ie trischilioi makes it a definite number.

Chilioi without a modifier in front of it, is simply 'a thousand', not 1000.

The better word for 1000 is chilias, not chilioi.
 
G

GRA

Guest
#13
Yeah and in the image of mine you reference and edit..it says 'a thousand'.
"a thousand" = 1000 = 10 x 10 x 10

Yeah and the context of chilioi with a tris in front of it, ie trischilioi makes it a definite number.

Chilioi without a modifier in front of it, is simply 'a thousand', not 1000.
No - 'chilioi' without a modifier means '1000' in the original language ---- and was translated into the English words "a thousand" and "the thousand"...



Both 'chilias' and 'chilioi' may be used literally or figuratively.

One is an adjective, and the other is a noun - which is the most significant difference between the words.
BOTH are numbers. BOTH are '1000'. The difference in grammatical usage does not change this.

"a thousand" = 1000

Again - the 'definite'-ness of it is determined in the context of scripture -- not in the grammar of the language.
"That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!" :D
If you wish, simply consider this "my opinion"... :) (It is O.K. with me.)
Believe what you will...
Think what you will...
Say what you will...
Do what you will...

:)

.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#14
We just gonna hav tuh agree tuh disagree bro.
 
G

GRA

Guest
#16
"No one other than GRA or 1still_waters has an opinion on this?" :eek:

:confused:

:p

;)

:)

.
 
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
54
0
#17
I probably would if I knew what you were addressing.
What are you guys talking about?
'An uncertain affinity'.
Yes this is a common phrase when parsing ancient languages.
Of what in particular do you say it refers to,
or what is it's importance to your argument?
Plainly, what are you referring to specifically?
Please people,.......throw me a bone here........
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
95
48
#18
"No one other than GRA or 1still_waters has an opinion on this?" :eek:

:confused:

:p

;)

:)

.
I think you already know my position on this? don't you? I tried to prove my point from the OT. In that "a thousand" doesn't always mean 1000.

Deuteronomy 7:9
9 “Therefore know that the Lord your God, He is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments;

Most biblical scholars equate 40 years to a biblical generation. Do the math...

1000 x 40 = 40,000.... We have a long wait! Even if you want say a generation is 16 years etc. (we aren't even halfway there).

There are other places in the OT where "a thousand" is used. However, the word used in Hebrew can stand both for literal and symbolic. Examples:

Jos_23:10 One man of you shall chase a thousand. For Jehovah your God is He who fights for you, as He has promised you. (you can say this is literal, that's a stretch IMO, to count of 1 man for 1000 would take an organized effort, I doubt you have the time to do that during battle).

Jdg_15:15 And he found a new jawbone of an ass, and put forth his hand and took it, and killed a thousand men with it. (Did the author or his sources literally go out and count the dead? They could have, but I doubt it)

Job_9:3 If he will argue with Him, he cannot answer Him one of a thousand. (Does this mean we can answer God 1 of every 1001?)

Job_33:23 If there is a messenger for him, a mediator, one among a thousand, to declare for man his uprightness, (is a thousand here represent the whole body of Christ?)

Psa_50:10 For every beast of the forest is Mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills. (Did David actually count the hills when he wrote this?)


* We use "a thousand" metaphorically in our language today as well, "when I got to work I had a thousand emails"...


My thread, "a thousand" literal or symbolic...
 
E

enochson

Guest
#19
Number really why are you so into numbers? there are words of what many call running back to grama doctrine because the greek word used didn't fit there doctrine.
 
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
54
0
#20
Oh......numerology.
My brethren......this is not a wise thing to proceed with.
What decimal place conotates the Lord's return?
That is my question to you.....(and why wasn't it in 1842?)