"a thousand" literal or symbolic?

[Bookends]

Some think that "a thousand" years in Revelation 20 are a literal thousand years in which Christ will reign on earth.

Ok, please explain me this:

Deuteronomy 7:9
9 “Therefore know that the Lord your God, He is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments;

Most biblical scholars equate 40 years to a biblical generation. Do the math...

1000 x 40 = 40,000

Hmmm, looks like we have a long wait.

Beeep, irrelevant, beeep, illogical, beeep, does not compute, beeep, please explain !!!!

 

[1still_waters]

You'd make a stronger argument examining chilias and chilioi in Rev 20.

By quoting verses in the OT about "a thousand" it looks as if you're imposing that meaning of 1000 in our english translation. In other words it looks like your angle is driving your interpretation, instead of the text itself driving the interpretation.

I agree with your conclusion, but there are better ways to make the point.

The greek is clearly "a thousand", not 1000.

1000 is definite.
'"a thousand" isn't definite.

 

[Trax]

Most biblical scholars equate 40 years to a biblical generation. Do the math...

1000 x 40 = 40,000

Hmmm, looks like we have a long wait.

People don't wait till they are age 40 to have their first kids. At age 40, a lot of people are seeing
their grandkids. Back then, the next generation started around age 16 or 17.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We need to look at it another way also.

In prophesy concerning time, Literal time has ALways been the fulfillment for all prophesy already fulfilled.

Thus we should use PAST example of how things were fulfilled, to interpret future events.

One of the things which separate the prophesy of The God of heaven and false Gods is God prophesies comes true literally. If we try to spiritualise his prophesies, we make him no more a prophet than false prophets. It is one of the reasons he prophesies, to prove he is the one true God.

as for your thousand generations. It was not a prophesy, It is like jesus told us to forgive our brother 70 X 7 times. He did not tell us on the 71 seven we are ok not to forgive our brother, He was using a number to explain a point.

 

[resurrection33]

Some think that "a thousand" years in Revelation 20 are a literal thousand years in which Christ will reign on earth.

Ok, please explain me this:

Deuteronomy 7:9
9 “Therefore know that the Lord your God, He is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments;

Most biblical scholars equate 40 years to a biblical generation. Do the math...

1000 x 40 = 40,000

Hmmm, looks like we have a long wait.

Beeep, irrelevant, beeep, illogical, beeep, does not compute, beeep, please explain !!!!

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was symbolic.

 

[Bookends]

You'd make a stronger argument examining chilias and chilioi in Rev 20.

By quoting verses in the OT about "a thousand" it looks as if you're imposing that meaning of 1000 in our english translation. In other words it looks like your angle is driving your interpretation, instead of the text itself driving the interpretation.

I agree with your conclusion, but there are better ways to make the point.

The greek is clearly "a thousand", not 1000.

1000 is definite.
'"a thousand" isn't definite.

I know, I want the millennialist to explain their 1000 year implication of "a thousand" using their literary standard in Rev. 20 for Deut. 7:9. And since it doesn't work in Deut. 7:9, then why make it work as a literal 1000 years in Rev. 20.

 

[Bookends]

People don't wait till they are age 40 to have their first kids. At age 40, a lot of people are seeing
their grandkids. Back then, the next generation started around age 16 or 17.

ok, then, 1000 x 17 = 17,000. We still are halfway there. Still doesn't work.

 

[Bookends]

We need to look at it another way also.

In prophesy concerning time, Literal time has ALways been the fulfillment for all prophesy already fulfilled.

Thus we should use PAST example of how things were fulfilled, to interpret future events.

One of the things which separate the prophesy of The God of heaven and false Gods is God prophesies comes true literally. If we try to spiritualise his prophesies, we make him no more a prophet than false prophets. It is one of the reasons he prophesies, to prove he is the one true God.

as for your thousand generations. It was not a prophesy, It is like jesus told us to forgive our brother 70 X 7 times. He did not tell us on the 71 seven we are ok not to forgive our brother, He was using a number to explain a point.

Ok then, using your logic here, since no other prophecies inject a 2000+ year gap within them, or any gap of any length, then I guess there is no gap between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel.

So what makes you so sure that John wasn't using "a thousand" to make a point, an age, instead of a literal 1000 years.

 

[Bookends]

ok, then, 1000 x 17 = 17,000. We still are halfway there. Still doesn't work.

replace "are" with "aren't". lol...

 

[Laodicea]

Revelation 20 is literal language therefore the 1000 years are also literal.

 

[AwaketoParadise]

Ok then, using your logic here, since no other prophecies inject a 2000+ year gap within them, or any gap of any length, then I guess there is no gap between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel.

You sure about that? We have the first and second advent in the following verses. Notice that Jesus stops before he reaches the part where it says "and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn" because that is the second advent. So we know there has been at least a 2000 year gap.

Isaiah 61:1-2
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Luke 4:16-20
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

 

[Abiding]

Revelation 20 is literal language therefore the 1000 years are also literal.

Who made that rule?

Lets suppose your right..........


20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

is the angel using a literal key?
how can a pit be bottomless?
a chain...steel?
really? a dragon? oh wait i gues its a serpant! oh wait its satan!

I see your point now its just all literal...hmmm

 

[Bookends]

You sure about that? We have the first and second advent in the following verses. Notice that Jesus stops before he reaches the part where it says "and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn" because that is the second advent. So we know there has been at least a 2000 year gap.

Isaiah 61:1-2
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Really, I see an immediate fulfillment in the rebuilding of Jerusalem after the Babylonian captivity and an ultimate fulfillment in Christ's 1st coming in which brought His in Kingdom, the Christian Church. I don't anything that suggest a 2000+ year gap...You'll have to explain how you see that.

Luke 4:16-20
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

This sounds like Jesus just quoted Isaiah's prophecy to proclaim its fulfillment in His (Christ) coming (1st advent). What are you seeing that I don't see? What Jesus just read was His ministry while He was on earth. We're do you see a 2nd coming passage in that or a 2000+ year gap?

 

[AwaketoParadise]

You sure about that? We have the first and second advent in the following verses. Notice that Jesus stops before he reaches the part where it says "and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn" because that is the second advent. So we know there has been at least a 2000 year gap.



Really, I see an immediate fulfillment in the rebuilding of Jerusalem after the Babylonian captivity and an ultimate fulfillment in Christ's 1st coming in which brought His in Kingdom, the Christian Church. I don't anything that suggest a 2000+ year gap...You'll have to explain how you see that.





This sounds like Jesus just quoted Isaiah's prophecy to proclaim its fulfillment in His (Christ) coming (1st advent). What are you seeing that I don't see? What Jesus just read was His ministry while He was on earth. We're do you see a 2nd coming passage in that or a 2000+ year gap?

"and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;". That hasnt happened yet. People still mourn. Do you really think its accidental that Christ stopped in the middle of a sentence? The day of vengeance has not happened.

 

[Bookends]

Originally Posted by Laodicea

Revelation 20 is literal language therefore the 1000 years are also literal.

Who made that rule?

Lets suppose your right..........


20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

is the angel using a literal key?
how can a pit be bottomless?
a chain...steel?
really? a dragon? oh wait i gues its a serpant! oh wait its satan!

I see your point now its just all literal...hmmm

Yeah and what does Revelation 1:1 mean when John tells us that He signified it?
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, semaino- to give a sign -
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]from sema (a mark, of uncertain derivation)[/FONT]

 

[Bookends]

"and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;". That hasnt happened yet. People still mourn. Do you really think its accidental that Christ stopped in the middle of a sentence? The day of vengeance has not happened.

Sure it did, an immediate fulfillment in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, and the fall of the Roman empire years after. The Jewish religious zealots in collusion with the Roman empire is where the Christians where persecuted the most, God judged ancient Israel and then Rome in which gave some relief to the Church. The 2nd coming will be its ultimate fulfillment. God had many days of vengeance through-out the OT btw...

I can't understand why many Christians overlook the significance of 70AD and the fulfillment of Jerusalem's destruction proclaimed by the prophets and also straight from the mouth of Jesus Himself.

 

[Abiding]

You sure about that? We have the first and second advent in the following verses. Notice that Jesus stops before he reaches the part where it says "and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn" because that is the second advent. So we know there has been at least a 2000 year gap.



Really, I see an immediate fulfillment in the rebuilding of Jerusalem after the Babylonian captivity and an ultimate fulfillment in Christ's 1st coming in which brought His in Kingdom, the Christian Church. I don't anything that suggest a 2000+ year gap...You'll have to explain how you see that.





This sounds like Jesus just quoted Isaiah's prophecy to proclaim its fulfillment in His (Christ) coming (1st advent). What are you seeing that I don't see? What Jesus just read was His ministry while He was on earth. We're do you see a 2nd coming passage in that or a 2000+ year gap?

Ive been starting to wonder if the day of vengence of our God isnt a reference to 70ad.
Not that i dont believe in a second advent...Isa just seems to flow in order that way...but
thats way past the point of this thread,

 

[Laodicea]

Who made that rule?

Lets suppose your right..........


20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

is the angel using a literal key?
how can a pit be bottomless?
a chain...steel?
really? a dragon? oh wait i gues its a serpant! oh wait its satan!

I see your point now its just all literal...hmmm

Bottomless pit can also be translated as deep which goes back to the beginning of creation
G12
ἄβυσσος
abussos
ab'-us-sos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and a variation of G1037; depthless, that is, (specifically), (infernal) “abyss”: - deep, (bottomless) pit.

Genesis 1:2
(2) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

 

[Abiding]

Bottomless pit can also be translated as deep which goes back to the beginning of creation
G12
ἄβυσσος
abussos
ab'-us-sos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and a variation of G1037; depthless, that is, (specifically), (infernal) “abyss”: - deep, (bottomless) pit.

Genesis 1:2
(2) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

thankyou for proving my point Lao

 

[Laodicea]

thankyou for proving my point Lao

It does not prove your point because bottomless pit should read deep which will be literal not symbolic just as the deep in Genesis 1:2 is literal so the deep in Revelation 20:1 is also literal