The seed promises were never made to an ethnic bloodline, they were made to Christ and those in Christ. Abraham, Jacob/Israel, and Isaac were each directly given the promises, and in each promise Christ is referenced (the seed).
The promises were indeed made
[TO] an ethnic bloodline, we literally read that from Genesis. Christ was never spoken
to by the Almighty about these promises in the OT, it was Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob being spoken
to when these promises were made. Almighty made promises
to them. What you really mean is that those promises were exclusively
[ABOUT] Christ, right? They weren't promises made TO Christ but ABOUT Christ, is what you mean?
Christ is the subject of the promises...Christ is the
embodiment of all promises...while the people in Christ are the objects of the promises...they are the recipients. This is what you mean right?
Can we lock this down first?
I think it would still be the case that you would need to demonstrate that these promises were ever made exclusively to ethnic bloodlines to begin with.
Again, we need to separate promises because not all promises were made
[TO] everyone. I summarize in my final bullet list below.
The scenario has interesting implications including the question of how would we ever know who is part of that ethnic group or not?
Supposing this scenario is true, we are not required to know who they are at present. The Almighty knows. And His will be done. Notwithstanding, we will know because The Messiah will be here, the resurrection will have occurred, the armies of the Beast will be destroyed, and He will lead them back into their land Himself. All of this is part of the 2nd Coming.
I know that some users have two user names. Are you also Inquisitor?
I don't go by two usernames. Not sure what that has to do with my comment. Can you enlighten me?
The 144k represent OT saints of the tribes, and the transition of John's vision to see a multitude of those dressed in white represents the change into the NT covenant, and that the 144k have blended into the crowd and become indistinct (also dressed in white/Christ).
The multitude do not represent Gentile converts, but all Christians regardless of origin, from all nations and people.
But...the scripture actually goes into which tribes specifically get sealed prior to the "winds of judgment blowing" and how many, noting that Dan isn't mentioned at all. So this is a specific count.
Recall that Paul mentioned in Romans 11 that Elijah was worried that he was the only one of his people who remained faithful, but the Almighty said he preserved 7000 men who have not bowed down to false gods. This was a specific number too.
In Revelation 14, the 144000 is mentioned again saying they are virgin men who haven't been (ceremonially) corrupted by women (intercourse; OT) and follow the lamb wherever He goes (who was also a virgin priest). Can the great multitude say they follow the lamb wherever He goes? This seems to be a strict regiment of priests like Elijah or John the Baptist.
Many Israeli people have high content of Canaanite ancestry, according to at least one study. But this goes back to the dilemma of determining ancestry. There is at least one user on here that proposed the idea that when Paul converted to Christianity that he ceased being part of Israel (invalid to inherit the promises through bloodline).
There are strange aspects of ontology that need to be hashed out to reach any consensus about ancestry.
Even the ontology of what it means to be in Christ needs to be hashed out.
I think you believe that ancestry must somehow be verified by man to validate who is and who isn't Israel? We as believers have the unfortunate tendency to try to force the fulfillment of prophecy through our own means. No, we're spectators in all of this. His will be done regardless of what we think or do. We can, however, know through the fulfillment of scripture:
- The Children of Israel were given the promise to return to the land.
- God said He will return and take them there. This is a pretty spectacular event (2nd coming)
- The resurrection will occur
- All the armies of the world will rise against Him but He will destroy them all with the sword His Mouth
- When the Children of Israel are returned to their land they will establish "unwalled" villages
- They will live in peace there and be unafraid
if these things didn't happen yet, then the people in control of the land are not the people of the promise. No 2nd coming, no resurrection, no miraculous gathering, no destruction of the world's armies...the people in the land continue to build walls and partitions, and there has been no peace since they got there.
If a promise was made to flesh, and man and wife become one in flesh, do they not then share that same promise? [Indeed] If the Church is the wife and Christ is the bridegroom, do they not share things after marriage that they did not previously share before marriage?
- There's the bridegroom...(Christ)
- There's the wife of the bridegroom...(Land promise; Ethnic Israel;
Rev 19)
- There are guests invited to the wedding...(Gentile believers)
- There are the beasts of the field slaughtered for the banquet...(Beast/Antichrist Army)
- There's time of rest...(Sabbath/Millennium; teaching Gentiles the truth; satan/deception chained)
- There are the nations that surround them...(Gog/Magog Army; satan/deception loosed)
- There's the destruction of those enemies...(Fiery Judgment)
- There's the Almighty...(Father dwells with His people)
- There's the bride of Almighty...(New Jerusalem; ALL Believers;
Rev 21)
- Eternity.
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Note that there are
two brides separated by 1000 years,
Rev 19:7 prior to the destruction of the beast army and
Rev 21:2 after the destruction of the Gog/Magog army.
The Living God must fulfill His promises made to Israel first, they are part of the 1st bride; the lesser fulfillment. Then Gentile believers are part of the 2nd bride; the greater fulfillment. God restores Israel's kingdom first, then the rest of the believers who learn to walk in the truth of the millennium receive their glory afterward.
To the Jew first, then to the Gentile.
