Stupid things 'Christians' do

Grace777x70 · Feb 10, 2016

There are most definitely excesses that occur when dealing with the things of the Spirit and how some people can react in their flesh.

Which of us here can say that we have not done things or said things in our Christian life that are not right? Dragging those things you did onto the internet and constantly exposing them to the world would not be a very desirable event for all of us. This is ungodly behavior.

I can assure you that this behavior is not from your Lord. When we get to heaven you will not have all your faults displayed by your brothers and sisters to mock you in the things you have done or said.

What is happening here is on the same level as dragging the women caught in adultery before the world. We are here to throw stones at this woman. This is un-Christ like behavior no matter how we try to justify it. This is like a little child that says to his father.." But , he did this first". Coming up with an excuse for the child's bad behavior.

What did Jesus do with the woman caught in adultery? First He protected her from those that wanted to condemn her and then stone her. Then He dealt with the woman....gave her acceptance grace and then empowering grace.

This kind of behavior just reveals our spiritual immaturity as we are not capable of fulfilling the requirement below.

Galatians 6:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.

coby · Feb 10, 2016

PeterJens said:

1965 Prophecy by Stanley Frodsham

I remember 1994, the Toronto blessing. I attended a full gospel church in Holland. Half of the congregation was pro Toronto. Half was against. Church split. The ones that were against were the pharisees that were opposed to the Holy Spirit some of the other camp said. I thought that too. On both sides it was either it's all good or it's all bad and noone had actually been there. I'm from Paul. I'm from Apollos. That was just flesh and divisiveness from both sides. Rodney Howard Brown came to Holland. Great! I went to these meetings. If one walked away because he just mocked them as pharisees from the podium, he said: Great that you leave. Now there's a place for someone who's on fire. Really.
In Toronto fun was made of it if you wanted to test things. No you don't have to test hahaha. It's all from God. So I just went with the flow. That is so dangerous. John Arnott said when I was there: oh people don't be so scared of demons. I wouldn't mind if a witch laid hands on me because God in me is bigger. They would let people who visited the meetings pray for each other and lay hands on each other. So dangerous. You don't know these people. In one meeting half of the people went to the front to be set free from porn addiction. Great if someone like thay before they got prayer laid hands on you or what if a witch crept in to visit? Some preachers are masons. The others hold a meeting together with them because they don't know. No wonder you get mixture.
I saw one guy on youtube talk about that glory cloud in Bethel and people getting enthousiastic. He said if God's glory came in the Bible people would fall almost dead. There was conviction of sin. Now they yell yeah and get their cell phones out to film the gold dust cloud.
If they saw an angel in the Bible they were terrified. The angel had to say: Don't be afraid. Now some meet angels all the time, angel feathers really come on now.
But still there was a real move of God in Toronto and I got set free and healed up from a lot of stuff.

Grace777x70 · Feb 10, 2016

I agree that people need to be taught by the leaders about the things of the Spirit...most manifestation are of the flesh....a lot of people are spiritual babies for sure...and there are charlatans too....but there is also a place in the Spirit that people living from their un-renewed minds will not nor even can understand. For the things of the Spirit are foolishness to them.

..and people that think the gifts of the Spirit are not for today are going to think any manifestation of the Holy Spirit will be of "the devil"...like speaking in tongues....that's a gimmie...

Sometimes a lot of "manifestations" are just their flesh reacting to the Spirit on them. When we get to heaven..the Holy Spirit will not be jerking and falling down all the time...but here on this earth that is just our flesh coming into contact with the supernatural and something gives....and it will always be our flesh....selah

The bible is full of times when people fell down from contact with the Spirit of God. Is there people that over-react?.....Yes.....of course. Are they any worse then those that reject the power of God in manifestation?.....no.....just different...

Are there charlatans?..of course...

I think what is worse then condemning how someone reacted in the flesh to the Holy Spirit..is nothing compared to those that "mock" and "parade all the faults" of these Christians in the Body of Christ that our Lord gave His life and shed His blood for.

PeterJens · Feb 10, 2016

coby said:

Here is the conundrum. People can start things in a good way, seeking the Lord for revival, a move, reality in peoples lives, and then the fruit can be wild, and all over the place.

We are given real responsibility before the Lord how we lead, and what we lead into.

The problem with real life, opening your heart up to risk and being moved, is you can be moved in the wrong ways.
That is where wisdom and testing come in. The problem is always once you release the brakes how do you reapply them when you go too far?

I know for work when I get involved in a new project it becomes so important. Well it does to me.

Once people are off balance, a few pushes and it is completely insane. You would not think the gospel is about being a loving caring individual.

coby · Feb 10, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Yes but the woman caught in adultery wasn't a leader laying hands on people.
With Todd Bentley we didn't dare speak against it. No it's great, just go watch it and lay your hands on the screen. When we were in sin and about to divorce no miracles happened in church, yet he was living in adultery and laid hands on people and the Lord covered him with gold and deads were supposedly raised. I think the others from his team were good and good things can have happened but that is so dangerous. Warning people to not go there would have been good.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Feb 10, 2016

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Here is popular 'grace' teacher Joseph Prince saying in his own words that Grace is our mother!

[video=youtube;VcHo-FIp7eE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcHo-FIp7eE[/video]

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'Grace' teachers like Prince say that grace is Jesus, though the bible says nothing of the sort, but instead that the grace of the father comes through Jesus. Yet Prince here says that grace is our mother.

So where does this idea come from?

It appears to be gnostic in origin. The gnostics believed that:

Sophia (wisdom) was the mother of all creation, who fell from grace, and through whom was created the totally evil material world in which she became trapped
Christ in the Pleroma (spiritual perfection) returned the knowledge of the spirit to her, and she became his consort, i.e., the bride of Christ, the holy spirit of the trinity.
Christ was then manifested on earth as the man Jesus to rescue elect men by giving them the knowledge (gnosis) of the divine spark of Sophia hidden within them. By recognizing that they were spiritual beings united with Christ, the elect could escape the corruption of the material world, and return to the spiritual world.

So the claim that Jesus is grace appears to come from the gnostic belief that Jesus became one with Sophia, i.e. the spirit of grace.

'Grace' teachers today teach that salvation is a process of identifying with their spiritual union with grace (i.e., Jesus), and dissociating from any awareness of their own corruption and sinful nature. This is virtually identical with what the gnostics believed.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Feb 10, 2016

Here's a 'manifestation' of GOD in a glory cloud at Bethel Church. I guess the audience has never heard of smoke machines and glitter. Maybe they don't care as long as they're entertained.

[video=youtube;y9eAgjH9cJQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9eAgjH9cJQ[/video]

HeRoseFromTheDead · Feb 10, 2016

Another glory cloud at Bethel.

[video=youtube;lQrTjbzbByA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQrTjbzbByA[/video]

PeterJens · Feb 10, 2016

Todd Bentley. I watched him on God TV. The praise was different, somehow something was missing.
I listened to the preaching. Very odd preaching. "I have been sent to teach you about the supernatural. People do not believe in the supernatural anymore."

The odd thing was this was teaching about angels, about angels doing things, blessing of wealth and health.

No conviction of sin, repentance, coming to faith, trusting in Jesus for forgiveness. This was more like a seance with spirits, and people overwhelmed with a presence, unable to speak. It could literally have been any religion on earth. The content was almost non-existant.

And what you learnt behind it. Todd Bentley a preacher who got tatooed as a spiritual act, not because he was involved in the world and converted out of it, this was his faith, his version of spiritual reality. And his message was fire, you need spiritual fire.

This is non-biblical spirituality, and non-biblical content, or even no real content, just bam, woooooa, feeeeeeeel the mooooood.

Now there is a deep hunger in people who felt the Lord move back in the 70's and it came to nothing in their lives but promised everything. I talked at length with one guy, and he would sell all his spiritual knowledge for this experience again, even if Todd was a heretic, and it was false. If you have ever met an addict, this is addictive behaviour, irrational desire that over-rides other desires, you just want another rush.

But this is literally not in the new testament, it is a wiered self indulgence, where getting high is the ultimate experience.

coby · Feb 10, 2016

I watched him all the time, laid my hands on the screen, wanted to go there, thought it was great. Checked nothing. But one time when he walked there preaching I sensed unclean demons. Later I understood. He said he went out of his body and met the healing angel from Branham. I read it. He said it himself. He went to Rick Joyner for counselling. He says on his website he was a knight of Malta and that was good. I told the counsellors in Toronto from the healing week I attended and who kinda forced me to take medical drugs and go to a psychiater, which I never wanted. No Rick Joyner is not in Masonry they said. They had all his books there.

JesusLives · Feb 10, 2016

We are instructed -

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.

Rather than look at this kind of nonsense maybe we should follow the instructions....

Matthew24:25"For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
26"So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Feb 10, 2016

[video=youtube;0PZ84G3EF_k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PZ84G3EF_k[/video]

Willie-T · Feb 10, 2016

PeterJens said:

I find myself surprised, and I am sure you do too, that I agree with a lot of this... especially the section I highlighted.

Being led to my present church has been a huge leap in my life of learning. At one time I took the opposite tack, and ridiculed tongue talkers (although our Vineyard really does very little of that) and "healers", even "hand-raisers." I never took it to the extreme of slandering them with accusations of being Devil Worshipers as some are so presumptuously prone to do, but I sure made fun of them. Now, some of all of them are at my own church.

Anyhoo, to make a long story short, I had already fallen under some sort of power ("slain in the Spirit") as much as thirty times in the previous 10 or 15 years of attending various meetings, and I had spoken in tongues for 25 years, but this place called The Vineyard was different. It was a bit more demonstrative than I was used to. I got past the initial uncomfortable sensation of seeing healings done all around me. In fact, it eventually just became a part of daily Christianity to me. So much so that I attended a seminar on this thing, with expectations of becoming a White Knight, going about healing everyone I ran across..... despite the fact that all I had ever personally engaged in was just family healings of headaches and such. I admit to having a bit of "hero worship" of the people who did this, despite mocking them. (Kathryn Kuhlman is a relative on my father's side. She died just before I turned 30, so perhaps it was in the back of my mind that this would be cool.)

Be that as it may, I went to this class, expecting EVERYTHING. I got NOTHING. Zilch, Zero, Nada.

I was so disappointed. Even my wife, who expected nothing, but was just attending because I wanted to go was out of her seat, praying for people all over the place. I just sat and watched. Actually feeling kind of empty on the inside. But, six months, a much more humble Willie went to the next class. I knew it would simply be the same... and it was.

Up until the Q&A session at the end! I asked a dumb question about sympathetic pains, (too long to go into) and before I knew it, the speaker had 7 people suffering with neck problems meeting with me off to the side of the stage, away from the main group while the rest went on with their discussion. "Bill's going to speak healing over you", he said, and turned it over to me. Deer in the headlights! I couldn't get out of it.

I immediately told this little group that they were being cheated. That I didn't know the first thing about how to do this. They just stood there, looking at me like puppies waiting for their dinner bowls. So, embarrassed and confused, I began. To this day, I have no idea what sort of stupid "prayer" I tried to mumble. But 5 were healed immediately, one man took another session of my dumb praying, but he also said the pain was all gone. And one woman fell on the floor, kind of jerking around. (I had the oddest sensation that she was just hamming it up, but I continued to pray for her anyway.) I don't think she got healed of anything, but I felt it was not mine to criticize. She eventually got up, and we all went back to our seats.

The point of me telling this is to show how God, quite pointedly, showed me that the poor sucker "doing the stuff" up there is nothing special. I was floundering like a fish out of water. He showed me, clearly, that He does what He wants, when He wants, and all He asks of us to be a part of it is to simply risk looking like a fool for Him.

It has sure helped me see crazy Aunt Kathryn in a different light.

So, I have to agree that many of the TV preachers have let this stuff go to their heads, but also there are some that are probably just doing what they understand they are being told to do. Maybe they don't even really have a big desire to be in the spotlight.

I know a lot of you have assumed it is somehow "your God-given duty" to bash them all. But all I can say is that while perhaps I don't agree with some of them, I think people should simply look to their own trusted churches and pastors, and leave those who actually MIGHT be God's anointed, alone. We may like to think we KNOW all these "revelations", but sometimes I think we might be as deluded as we accuse them of being. I, personally, feel that is how God expects us to operate. I just cannot see us as God's Vigilante Squad.

Willie-T · Feb 10, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

Frankly, sometimes you disgust me. Do you lack the intestinal fortitude to post full sermons of Joseph Prince to see what he really says as he develops comments? I don't think you have the guts. People might, then, actually see what he is saying, and your own lies about him would be exposed for what they are. You know very well that in searching out four-second clips to ridicule people, as you seem to love to do, you have no idea what he was really talking about.

If someone makes the very common statement that "God is my co-pilot", those of us who aren't out to witch-hunt know exactly what they mean, and it is not that we employ God to fly an airplane.

Jesus, himself, even expressed His love for us as akin to that of a mother hen with her chicks.

coby · Feb 10, 2016

Weird mother grace. Maybe it comes from this:

*Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?*22*For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman.*23*But he*who was*of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise,*24*which things are symbolic. For these are the[d]*two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—*25*for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—26*but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

I read his book. Some stuff was great, but there were some things in it which were not right. We got a list in church from what was not good about what he teaches as a warning, but he said: I don't say he's a false teacher. This is just not Biblical. And you can look it up for yourself. I think that's better than calling everyone a false teacher and pastors can warn their flock.
I don't know what list it was, but something like this:

Analyzing Joseph Prince And His Radical Grace Teaching -

Paul praised the Bereans for looking up in the Bible what he taught them.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Feb 10, 2016

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Here's a great video that uncovers the root of the Emergent Church movement. It's very long (3 hrs), but extremely well done and thorough. So for anyone curious about what the Emergent Church movement is about, here it is explained.

[video=youtube;R9y9ly6YvCw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9y9ly6YvCw[/video]

HeRoseFromTheDead · Feb 10, 2016

coby said:

I'm sure that in 'grace' teachers' minds there's a connection there. Jerusalem above is the bride of Christ, and is our mother, but it is not grace. The idea of grace being our mother is more akin to Mary, Mother of Grace, of the Catholics, or Sophia, mother of all creation, of the gnostics.

Grace777x70 · Feb 10, 2016

Prince doesn't say grace is the "mother". of us....lol...that is the first time I heard him say that..it's just a figure of speech like Willie said....the foolishness that people make out of innocent words being spoken and then taken totally out of context. But that's what self-appointed "heretic" hunters do.

I find that there is always someone on the internet that doesn't agree with what other preachers believe...it's par for the course......if you say you believe in speaking in tongues...someone will send you to a website "proving" that tongues are not for today.

There will always be people that are against what others believe....that's a gimmie...it's what they do with it that matters...how do they treat the other one that has a different view on scripture?

No one person has all the truth...I disagree with all preachers in some area or other but it doesn't stop me from listening to them and getting what area of anointing they have from the Lord to teach.

We need to be willing to listen to what the Holy Spirit is saying to us and be open to learn from anyone..even an ass ( donkey .

..)

Here are some that are against Billy Graham ( and he is conservative )...this guy calls him a wolf...

Wolves in Costume: Billy Graham

Here is one about another conservative guy being spoken against...no one is immune from this ripping each other apart on the internet.

John Macarthur's Heretical Teaching Regarding the Blood of Christ

blank

Everyone is a heretic!

So, as you can see...there will always be people against others in the body of Christ...but each one has an anointing to teach in certain areas and we should be open to learn from them all....( all those that keep to the basics of the gospel of the grace of Christ for salvation ) ..and not rip them apart because we have a different view..

Let's focus on growing in the knowledge and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

coby said:

PeterJens · Feb 10, 2016

Willie-T said:

Innocent by association. I understand your sincerity, and the reality we are just vessels of His glory on this earth.

Jesus said he would not weed out the weeds from the good seed because it would damage the good seed, and actually made no difference.

However a preacher appears, or which platform they walk out on, it does not make the words they say more true or less true. Now Joseph Prince is a name, like any other name, he claims various doctrines, but he is mortal, a sinner saved by grace who can stumble and fall, and preach heresy. The only way we know what is good teaching and what is not by testing it.

By your logic, I have to agree with Mary appearing to RCC believers, or Jesus in a piece of toast, or diamonds left by 9 ft angels coming to churches. If these churches do not teach love from the heart, to flee sin and walk in purity they do not know Jesus. I want to be sympathetic to everyone and give them the benefit of the doubt, but when people soaked in such teaching call me of satan, at best they are missguided, at worst my enemy.

What matters is the Kingdom of God within. We are a kingdom of overcomers of sin and walking in righteousness.
We are not the salt of the earth because we do flash miracles and pray for healing, but because we love and care for people.

Now if the gifts are with the core message then amen. Jesus used miracles as a sign of forgiven sins, not have a nice day and enjoy yourself.

coby · Feb 10, 2016

Prince doesn't teach that you have to repent of your sins and ask Him to forgive you to get born again.

Joseph Prince Is Wrong About How to Get Born AgainJoseph Prince teaches to become a Christian,every person must make a personal decision to receive Jesus as Savior*(p. 137). What that means to him is revealed at the end of his book, which would be found on page 315 if numbered. It is there that Joseph Prince has his*Salvation Prayer:

Lord Jesus, thank You for loving me and dying for me on the cross. Your precious blood washes me clean of every sin. You are my Lord and my Savior, now and forever. I believe that You rose from the dead and that You are alive today.Because of Your finished work, I am now a beloved child of God and heaven is my home. Thank You for giving me eternal life,and filling my heart with Your peace and joy. Amen.

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