Talking to the dead.

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Mar 28, 2016
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Did God sent a strong delusion at the Transfiguration???
I would think . No, that was true prophecy he sent, it was inspired from above into a vision or picture in their fleshly minds of those who were given the vision .

Jesus in Mathew 4 received a false vision false prophecy bringing in lies to the mind of Jesus who had not eaten for forty days.This was at the beginning of His ministry.. Jesus walked by faith, the unseen and said three times, "it is written" and the vision ended

We are warned of false prophecy through out the body or near death experiences they as the new age old age cycle seem to be on the rise today the new millennial gospel. They come from worshipping believing fallen angels that have no form.

Colossians 2:18Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Saul was cut off from any manner of communication. Its why Saul sought after the legion. God sent Saul and the witch a strong delusion
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Do you have facts and evidence to support the notion that social science research is less valid or reliable than any other form of research, or shall I just write this off as an unsubstantiated accusation springing from your personal disagreement with the findings in question?
It is completely implausible to measure how potential murderers perceive the risk of execution as a possible consequence of their actions.
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
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Regardless of whether or not the death penalty is a deterrent-death most assuredly is, and a most effective one at that.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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Why because once you are dead you cant talk to the living. Right?
If all of us alive could talk to the dead the death penalty would not even be a deterrant.

Ok am confused. But you know what, Jesus rose from the dead so, the penalty of death, for him (cruxifiction) was not a deterrant for his declaration that he is the son of God. And people coulndt stop talking about him when he rose and even when he ascended.

If one means by talking about the supposed dead in Christ rising again, no of course we can talk about the resuurection. And testify Jesus is alive. We can talk to Jesus, he died and rose again.

As for talking to the dead in Christ, who are sleeping, waiting for the resurrection, well, if thats what younwant to do in your spare time, fine, but they cant hear you its better not to disturb them. Talk to Jesus!
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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It is completely implausible to measure how potential murderers perceive the risk of execution as a possible consequence of their actions.
My Father was murdered in Florida. The murders were all life time careers.
The Prosecutor had a strong case and used the DP as a bargaining chip.
They all plied guilty for life sentences.
I took the time to visit all four of them while on vacation.
Today they are all Christians doing prison ministry.

If for no other reason that is why it should be on the table.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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Why because once you are dead you cant talk to the living. Right?
If all of us alive could talk to the dead the death penalty would not even be a deterrant.

Ok am confused. But you know what, Jesus rose from the dead so, the penalty of death, for him (cruxifiction) was not a deterrant for his declaration that he is the son of God. And people coulndt stop talking about him when he rose and even when he ascended.

If one means by talking about the supposed dead in Christ rising again, no of course we can talk about the resuurection. And testify Jesus is alive. We can talk to Jesus, he died and rose again.

As for talking to the dead in Christ, who are sleeping, waiting for the resurrection, well, if thats what younwant to do in your spare time, fine, but they cant hear you its better not to disturb them. Talk to Jesus!
I was not aware Jesus murdered someone.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
My Father was murdered in Florida. The murders were all life time careers.
The Prosecutor had a strong case and used the DP as a bargaining chip.
They all plied guilty for life sentences.
I took the time to visit all four of them while on vacation.
Today they are all Christians doing prison ministry.

If for no other reason that is why it should be on the table.
Well that may be so, and I did not state I supported capital punishment,

my point is, to measure whether capital punishment acts as a deterrent is implausible if not impossible.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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Well that may be so, and I did not state I supported capital punishment,

my point is, to measure whether capital punishment acts as a deterrent is implausible if not impossible.
https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6384&context=jclc

That has been measured and shows that it does deter.

In the case of my Dad, they are not on the streets any more and because of where they are at, had to look at the afterlife.

As a bargaining chip it is great.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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"Science does really draw a conclusion. It did. There is no question about it," said Naci Mocan, an economics professor at the University of Colorado at Denver. "The conclusion is there is a deterrent effect."

A 2003 study he co-authored, and a 2006 study that re-examined the data, found that each execution results in five fewer homicides, and commuting a death sentence means five more homicides. "The results are robust, they don't really go away," he said. "I oppose the death penalty. But my results show that the death penalty (deters) — what am I going to do, hide them?"

Statistical studies like his are among a dozen papers since 2001 that capital punishment has deterrent effects. They all explore the same basic theory — if the cost of something (be it the purchase of an apple or the act of killing someone) becomes too high, people will change their behavior (forego apples or shy away from murder).

To explore the question, they look at executions and homicides, by year and by state or county, trying to tease out the impact of the death penalty on homicides by accounting for other factors, such as unemployment data and per capita income, the probabilities of arrest and conviction, and more.

Among the conclusions:

Each execution deters an average of 18 murders, according to a 2003 nationwide study by professors at Emory University. (Other studies have estimated the deterred murders per execution at three, five and 14).
The Illinois moratorium on executions in 2000 led to 150 additional homicides over four years following, according to a 2006 study by professors at the University of Houston.
Speeding up executions would strengthen the deterrent effect. For every 2.75 years cut from time spent on death row, one murder would be prevented, according to a 2004 study by an Emory University professor.

In 2005, there were 16,692 cases of murder and non-negligent manslaughter nationally. There were 60 executions.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/death-penalty-deters-murders-studies-say/
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
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the dead are dead, and the scripture tells us that many of the living are 'dead'...

The Bible tells us that the dead/deceased are asleep and are awaiting the 'Resurrection'...

Phi 3:10-11.
That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings,
being made conformable unto his death;

If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6384&context=jclc

That has been measured and shows that it does deter.

In the case of my Dad, they are not on the streets any more and because of where they are at, had to look at the afterlife.

As a bargaining chip it is great.
This study proves very little. It is impossible to prove causal claims given the complexity of murder.
They cannot even begin to control the variables.
There is no direct test for deterrence.
 

SunnySky

New member
Mar 19, 2019
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The Bible does clearly prohibit talking to the dead. To attempt to communicate with the dead is a sin—what people

Contact is demonic entities. Some I believe are called familiar spirits.
Deuteronomy 18:10-12 King James Version (KJV)

10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.

11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.


Let’s not forget Consulting the dead was a serious sin that cost king Saul his life:

1 Chronicles 10:13- So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it;



The New Testament reveals that the Holy Spirit, not spirits of the dead, will be our teacher and guide:

"When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me." (John 15:26)



Spiritual guidance should be sought from God through Jesus. Christ is the only mediator we need!
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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the dead are dead, and the scripture tells us that many of the living are 'dead'...

The Bible tells us that the dead/deceased are asleep and are awaiting the 'Resurrection'...

Phi 3:10-11.
That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings,
being made conformable unto his death;

If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
And now it’s over, the whole earth quietly at rest.
Burst into song! Make the rafters ring!
Ponderosa pine trees are happy,
giant Lebanon cedars are relieved, saying,
“Since you’ve been cut down,
there’s no one around to cut us down.”
And the underworld dead are all excited,
preparing to welcome you when you come.

Getting ready to greet you are the ghostly dead,
all the famous names of earth.
All the buried kings of the nations
will stand up on their thrones
With well-prepared speeches,
royal invitations to death:
“Now you are as nothing as we are!
Make yourselves at home with us dead folks!”

11 This is where your pomp and fine music led you, Babylon,
to your underworld private chambers,
A king-size mattress of maggots for repose
and a quilt of crawling worms for warmth.

12 What a comedown this, O Babylon!
Daystar! Son of Dawn!
Flat on your face in the underworld mud,
you, famous for flattening nations!
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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This study proves very little. It is impossible to prove causal claims given the complexity of murder.
They cannot even begin to control the variables.
There is no direct test for deterrence.
Really??????? What planet are you on?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Really??????? What planet are you on?
I am on the planet that does not make claims that cannot be proven, correlation is not causation

And so far the correlation is very, very weak
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
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I am on the planet that does not make claims that cannot be proven, correlation is not causation

And so far the correlation is very, very weak
I am on the planet that does not make claims that cannot be proven, correlation is not causation

And so far the correlation is very, very weak
We are speaking social science, and the correlation is based on decades of data. And, in that time period, it does prove that the death penalty does deter. The more recent research showed that the death of one murdered saves the lives of others. Also, if one is put to death then they can not murder others in prison.

The best case in favor of the death penalty is that it is a good bargaining chip for career bad guys.
The best argument against it is people who were found guilty that did not do it.

Romans 13 makes it biblical