Tattoos

[faroukfarouk]

I..2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Of course you're entitled to your strong preferences. But I do think it's stretching it to equate all tattoos with 'filthiness of the flesh and spirit'. I think of the preacher's daughter who is leaving home at 18 and gets a Christian fish symbol <>< on her wrist as a witness. Or the earnest young man who enlists in the military and gets praying hands inked. Or the grandmother who has her grandchildren's dates of birth inked (an increasingly wide custom among grandmothers and of course moms).

Blessings.

 

[Jda016]

My daughter and I had this discussion not long ago. I have three tattoos, gotten over time for various reasons. I assumed, being a good little Christianite, that the "law" didn't apply to me. I read that scripture, and promptly ignored it. When my 20-year-old (who is tattoo-free) asked me about it, I looked it up. And realized how right she was. There is no stipulation here that it is to do with Pagan practices or anything else. Simply, I am the Lord, and I don't like it. Ok..no more tattoos. How complicated is that?

I think believers often open the door to demonic events/spirits. The entire Bible is the recording of a legal agreement of a god and his people. He will be our God, we will obey and be his people. By violating that law we "invite" in spirits of discord and open the door to possible compromise. When we believe the ways of the world over the ways of the word, we compromise our spirits in him.

Shalom.

Thank you for this testimony! Every time I show a Christian who wants a tattoo how tattooing had its roots in, not just paganism, but witchcraft, sexual perversion, necromancy, and demons (even to this day there are famous tattoo artists who ask for inspiration from a demon to help them draw what is "appropriate" on someone else's skin) I get a self-righteous "I'm doing it for Jesus and to win people for Christ." No, the real reason people get them are because they think they are cool and because they like them.

also, I think the whole argument of "getting a tattoo helps me to reach people or start a conversation with them so I can lead them to Christ" is rather absurd. I could say the exact same thing about smoking, getting drunk, or sleeping around.

since when does the Holy Spirit need tattoos to lead people to Christ?

I don't care that people have gotten tattoos in their past, but it really irks me when Christians claim that their sole reason for getting it is to help lead people to Christ, because that clearly is not most people's motivation.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Thank you for this testimony! Every time I show a Christian who wants a tattoo how tattooing had its roots in, not just paganism, but witchcraft, sexual perversion, necromancy, and demons (even to this day there are famous tattoo artists who ask for inspiration from a demon to help them draw what is "appropriate" on someone else's skin) I get a self-righteous "I'm doing it for Jesus and to win people for Christ." No, the real reason people get them are because they think they are cool and because they like them.

also, I think the whole argument of "getting a tattoo helps me to reach people or start a conversation with them so I can lead them to Christ" is rather absurd. I could say the exact same thing about smoking, getting drunk, or sleeping around.

since when does the Holy Spirit need tattoos to lead people to Christ?

I don't care that people have gotten tattoos in their past, but it really irks me when Christians claim that their sole reason for getting it is to help lead people to Christ, because that clearly is not most people's motivation.

I don't quite understand how the actions of some people in the past are supposed to be attributable to all people with tattoos in the future.

And I don't understand how conversations about a Bible verse (for example) can be discounted if the canvas was skin, but are a blessing if on paper or a t-shirt, etc.

And I don't understand how one person's assumed insight into the state of everyone's heart can be regarded as making void the considerations of Christian liberty in Romans 14.

Blessings.

 

[MrsRoseTreasure]

I don't either. I love my tattoos and would love to have some more. However, I believe that directives in the word are true. Sometimes, I just have to understand that my god doesn't like it. If I love my god, I should obey him. Humble servants don't split hairs with the boss. (This is all my opine.)

I don't quite understand how the actions of some people in the past are supposed to be attributable to all people with tattoos in the future.

And I don't understand how conversations about a Bible verse (for example) can be discounted if the canvas was skin, but are a blessing if on paper or a t-shirt, etc.

And I don't understand how one person's assumed insight into the state of everyone's heart can be regarded as making void the considerations of Christian liberty in Romans 14.

Blessings.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I don't either. I love my tattoos and would love to have some more. However, I believe that directives in the word are true. Sometimes, I just have to understand that my god doesn't like it. If I love my god, I should obey him. Humble servants don't split hairs with the boss. (This is all my opine.)

Well, we must all follow our consciences as we read Scripture.

My suggestion also would be: look at the context. I come from a dispensational background, which means that I see God revealing Himself gradually, and having dealings with people (Israel and the church) in rather distinct ways. I don't believe the born again, New Testament believer is under the law. I don't believe that where God Himself gave Zion earrings and even a nose ring in Ezekiel 16 this was supposedly contradictory to Leviticus 19, because what Leviticus is saying is, Don't follow necromancy rites that involve cutting. I don't believe a preacher that shaves (see also Leviticus 19) has much grounds to be critical of tattoos on exegetical ground. So the fact that we see things a bit differently, apparently, may relate more to our possibly rather different church backgrounds rather than to any real difference in appreciation for tattoo art. (Some Christians even use them as conversation-starters, e.g.: "What does your Christian fish symbol <>< mean?")

Blessings.

 

[MrsRoseTreasure]

The choice to be pleasing to my King is different than the choice to obey the law, specifically. I liken it to my children. I am so proud they do the right things because they are the things I taught them. They are adults, now, and I still feel that way. I hope Yahweh feels that same about me, when I do the things he asks me to do without arguing or looking for a reason not to. I doubt it's a salvation issue, but I question the concept of obedience by disobedience.

I do not agree that the law has been done away with, but that's a conversation for a different thread.

Well, we must all follow our consciences as we read Scripture.

My suggestion also would be: look at the context. I come from a dispensational background, which means that I see God revealing Himself gradually, and having dealings with people (Israel and the church) in rather distinct ways. I don't believe the born again, New Testament believer is under the law. I don't believe that where God Himself gave Zion earrings and even a nose ring in Ezekiel 16 this was supposedly contradictory to Leviticus 19, because what Leviticus is saying is, Don't follow necromancy rites that involve cutting. I don't believe a preacher that shaves (see also Leviticus 19) has much grounds to be critical of tattoos on exegetical ground. So the fact that we see things a bit differently, apparently, may relate more to our possibly rather different church backgrounds rather than to any real difference in appreciation for tattoo art. (Some Christians even use them as conversation-starters, e.g.: "What does your Christian fish symbol <>< mean?")

Blessings.

 

[faroukfarouk]

The choice to be pleasing to my King is different than the choice to obey the law, specifically. I liken it to my children. I am so proud they do the right things because they are the things I taught them. They are adults, now, and I still feel that way. I hope Yahweh feels that same about me, when I do the things he asks me to do without arguing or looking for a reason not to. I doubt it's a salvation issue, but I question the concept of obedience by disobedience.

I do not agree that the law has been done away with, but that's a conversation for a different thread.

The way you phrase this I greatly respect, especially if it's a question of your own conscience and understanding.

(Obviously we are not coming from the same perspective dispensationally.)

Some Christians would also come at the question motivated by a conscience that desired to honor God, but with another conclusion: for example, a hypothetical 18 year old who is leaving home for college and s/he wanted from the outset to have a Bible phrase or Christian fish sign <>< as a testimony and talking point. (These days also Christian 18 year olds who are leaving home also tend to come at the question from a distinct standpoint from what was assumed years ago; while it used to be a male thing, today most Christian young people, whether or not they actually get ink or not, tend to acknowledge that women have definitely attained tattoo equality.)

But I guess we don't need to multiply words if we are coming from perspectives based on different assumptions.

Blessings.

 

[Jda016]

I think that something that has always been linked to occultism (and still is today) is, in fact, relevant. I think of the Scripture to flee any appearance of evil. I see a massive influx of tattoos in a younger generation of Christians and it concerns me. It concerns me because tattooing has always been in satan's backyard, even to this day.

Yes, we are given liberty in Christ. But why would we want to associate with something that has always been linked to evil?

I also think of Paul who said that if a fellow Christian thought it was wrong to eat meat, then you should not do it in front of them. Yet, I know many parents who do not want their kids to get tattoos and churches that don't want them to get tattoos and yet they do it anyway. I hear a lot about liberty, but I never hear about not wanting to be an offense to someone like Paul was talking about.

Even if you feel tattooing is right and perfectly fine, the fact that your fellow Christians (and sometimes parents) feel that it is wrong should give you SOME pause, shouldn't it?

 

[Jda016]

I am not trying to condemn people, but warn them.

This of course, does not apply to everyone, but Statistically speaking people with tattoos are more prone to violent behavior, sex offenses, lasciviousness, homosexuality/lesbianism, and crime. Those are just statistical facts as much as it is statistical fact that smokers are more likely to get lung cancer than non-smokers.

Again, I am not throwing a blanket blame statement over Christians. My grandfather had a tattoo from the army and after he got saved he spoke to anyone and everyone about Christ. He deeply loved God. So it the same with many Christians who have tattoos today, however I'm trying to advise caution as I personally believe tattooing opens the doorway for demonic activity, since it has always been so in the past and continues to be so to this day.

I suggest that if anyone has a tattoo already to pray over it and ask God so that there can be no chance for the devil to influence thoughts or actions that do not produce Christ-likeness.

 

[Jda016]

You asked what the past has to do with the present. Perhaps you may want to consider this:

in ancient times, temple prostitues in Egypt and other pagan cultures were most often identified by tattoos. The Maori tribes of New Zealand had elaborate facial tattoos (and some still practice it today) which were not only a sign of status, but were also suppose to increase physical attractiveness. Some temple prostitutes even had tattoos of the image or symbol of their god near their pubic area to increase virility and protection.

there may not be specific references to pagan gods, but the porn industry is absolutely riddled with tattoos. I would consider the many "porn stars" to be very similar to the temple prostitutes of ancient times.

could it be that satan still has a very heavy hand in this now, just as he did in the past?

of course the average Christian who wants to get a tattoo isn't thinking about any of this, but maybe that is exactly what satan wants. He doesn't want Christians to know of the evil that tattoos have been used for and are still being used for. What if the unwitting Christian is allowing a door to be open in their life to the devil by getting a tattoo? And why wouldn't they be when tattooing is so completely within the devil's grasp?

again, I advise the utmost caution if I can not convince people to stay completely away from tattoos.

( again, this is not a condemnation of anyone who has a tattoo, but a warning for future times)

 

[faroukfarouk]

Jda016: Thanks for your comments.

And then what about the young Christian, maybe shy when talking to people, but determined to serve the Lord and be an effective witness, gets something such as a Christian fish symbol <>< on his arm, because he wants to be a bold testimony and knows it's highly likely that it will help him get into witness conversations more easily?

Is such a young person to be imitated? Not necessarily.

Is such a young person to be despised and guilt-manipulated? No, neither.

Is such a young person to be respected as a young adult who has taken it upon himself to make his decisions? Yes. This also would be in the spirit of Romans 14.

Blessings.

 

[MrsRoseTreasure]

Well, once you got it, you're pretty much stuck with it. I don't much witness to unsaved folks, though I will if the opportunity presents itself. I find that Yahweh has a way of opening that door for me, and has the power to put the words into my mouth. I have had friends who couldn't explain why they liked me until something they needed to know was revealed to them. (I'm not really a "nice" person, though I am an honest one.)

I fear the conversation about hypocrisy. If I get asked about the tattoos, I can say, "I am a sinner, and I made a mistake. I didn't know it wasn't pleasing to my King. Now I know, and I won't get anymore. I leave them as a reminder that Messiah is merciful, and forgives my foolishness and sin."

On the other hand, if I'm walking around with a fish on my arm the conversation sounds like this: "I know the Bible says that I shouldn't get tattooed, but I really felt lead in the spirit to get it to be able to start conversations like this." One is basically saying that it's ok to violate the solemn word as long as the ends justify the means.

I still can't agree. Obedience by disobedience is not obedience at all. I seek to be pleasing. If he says, "Sing me a song." I open my mouth and sing whatever comes out. If he says, "Do as your husband says." I stop arguing with the man and go do. If one truly sees themselves as a humble servant, then the servant doesn't argue when the master says "don't."

Jda016: Thanks for your comments.

And then what about the young Christian, maybe shy when talking to people, but determined to serve the Lord and be an effective witness, gets something such as a Christian fish symbol <>< on his arm, because he wants to be a bold testimony and knows it's highly likely that it will help him get into witness conversations more easily?

Is such a young person to be imitated? Not necessarily.

Is such a young person to be despised and guilt-manipulated? No, neither.

Is such a young person to be respected as a young adult who has taken it upon himself to make his decisions? Yes. This also would be in the spirit of Romans 14.

Blessings.

 

[Nautilus]

I think that something that has always been linked to occultism (and still is today) is, in fact, relevant. I think of the Scripture to flee any appearance of evil. I see a massive influx of tattoos in a younger generation of Christians and it concerns me. It concerns me because tattooing has always been in satan's backyard, even to this day.

Yes, we are given liberty in Christ. But why would we want to associate with something that has always been linked to evil?

I also think of Paul who said that if a fellow Christian thought it was wrong to eat meat, then you should not do it in front of them. Yet, I know many parents who do not want their kids to get tattoos and churches that don't want them to get tattoos and yet they do it anyway. I hear a lot about liberty, but I never hear about not wanting to be an offense to someone like Paul was talking about.

Even if you feel tattooing is right and perfectly fine, the fact that your fellow Christians (and sometimes parents) feel that it is wrong should give you SOME pause, shouldn't it?

Not really. I don't have enough hours in a day to debate if my every decision may be 'offensive' to other believers. Especially when its none of their business whats under my shirt sleeve.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Well, once you got it, you're pretty much stuck with it. I don't much witness to unsaved folks, though I will if the opportunity presents itself. I find that Yahweh has a way of opening that door for me, and has the power to put the words into my mouth. I have had friends who couldn't explain why they liked me until something they needed to know was revealed to them. (I'm not really a "nice" person, though I am an honest one.)

I fear the conversation about hypocrisy. If I get asked about the tattoos, I can say, "I am a sinner, and I made a mistake. I didn't know it wasn't pleasing to my King. Now I know, and I won't get anymore. I leave them as a reminder that Messiah is merciful, and forgives my foolishness and sin."

On the other hand, if I'm walking around with a fish on my arm the conversation sounds like this: "I know the Bible says that I shouldn't get tattooed, but I really felt lead in the spirit to get it to be able to start conversations like this." One is basically saying that it's ok to violate the solemn word as long as the ends justify the means.

I still can't agree. Obedience by disobedience is not obedience at all. I seek to be pleasing. If he says, "Sing me a song." I open my mouth and sing whatever comes out. If he says, "Do as your husband says." I stop arguing with the man and go do. If one truly sees themselves as a humble servant, then the servant doesn't argue when the master says "don't."

Hi there. MrsRoseTreasure:

I can appreciate what you are saying; it does still come back to how broadly you interpret the verse in Leviticus 19, evidently.

For example, in Isaiah 49.16, the Lord says: "I have graven thee upon the palms of my hand" (Amplified Bible: graven, tattooed) or in Ezekiel 16.12, where the Lord Himself gives earrings and even a nose ring to Zion; can it really be said that the Lord is going against whatever He is interpreted as saying in Leviticus 19?

No. This is my answer, anyway. (Saying yes would pose problems about the unity of Scripture.)

Maybe it can be said that the issue is not as clear-cut as uniquely basing a viewpoint on a very broad interpretation of one verse would make out.

(There are also still problems internal to Leviticus 19, in that preachers who try to apply the 'cutting' verse rather broadly and yet don't have a bushy beard, would seem to have no grounds to stand on.)

Blessings.

 

[Simona25]

And then what about the young Christian, maybe shy when talking to people, but determined to serve the Lord and be an effective witness, gets something such as a Christian fish symbol <>< on his arm, because he wants to be a bold testimony and knows it's highly likely that it will help him get into witness conversations more easily?

It`s sad if someone feels the need to get a tatoo (even if it`s a christian symbol) in order to appear cool and gain confidence when talking to people...about Jesus Christ.

 

[faroukfarouk]

It`s sad if someone feels the need to get a tatoo (even if it`s a christian symbol) in order to appear cool and gain confidence when talking to people...about Jesus Christ.

Simona25:

I guess whether 'cool' or not, is neither here nor there, and subjective; but the fact that they are effective conversation-starters is widely proven, and from a pragmatic point of view Christians with faith based designs certainly find that they work.

 

[Simona25]

Simona25:

I guess whether 'cool' or not, is neither here nor there, and subjective; but the fact that they are effective conversation-starters is widely proven, and from a pragmatic point of view Christians with faith based designs certainly find that they work.

But, doesn`t that show lack of faith?

 

[faroukfarouk]

But, doesn`t that show lack of faith?

How do you mean?

There is a sense in which if a person anticipates that a faith based tattoo design (Christian fish sign <>< on arm, etc.) will lead to many witness conversations, then going ahead and getting it might be described as an act of faith.

 

[ji]

Hello,
I have been wondering what the Bible says about tattoos and if God forbids them or not?

Levi 19:28 KJV "Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord."
When it's declared "I am the Lord",it means a border kept and not to breach it.Jesus when He came in flesh and lived in flesh lead a sinless life and,obeyed all OT commandments.He fulfilled all the Laws of OT,sacrificed His own Life to Redeem us who are unworthy.So when we are called to follow Him,we are commanded with Love to follow Him and become like unto the image of Christ.If tattoos are standing in the way,remove it.And Pray to God to teach you to Love Him even if it takes time.He will answer.Then you will be able to do everything gladly.That's where old people makes mistakes in advising to younger generations.Jesus Loves us,He is not hitler.
Love God first,Obedience to Him will follow.You will never find someone more loving than Jesus.Meditate on the Cross of Christ,from there Holy Spirit will fill you and lead you.Jesus does not live in our comfy zones,and when we are close to Him we enjoy the immense Peace and Calm that world cannot give.The life styles of this world will appear as dung in front of it.Sorry for the harsh word there,but that's the word intended when Apostle spoke of worldly privileges.
"Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ," Philippians 3: 8 KJV
The main aim is win Christ.Check it how much you want the world then.
Pray to God to fill you with His Love and you will follow Him when that peace begins to overflow from your heart.
God Bless

 

[faroukfarouk]

Levi 19:28 KJV "Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord."
When it's declared "I am the Lord",it means a border kept and not to breach it.Jesus when He came in flesh and lived in flesh lead a sinless life and,obeyed all OT commandments.He fulfilled all the Laws of OT,sacrificed His own Life to Redeem us who are unworthy.So when we are called to follow Him,we are commanded with Love to follow Him and become like unto the image of Christ.If tattoos are standing in the way,remove it.And Pray to God to teach you to Love Him even if it takes time.He will answer.Then you will be able to do everything gladly.That's where old people makes mistakes in advising to younger generations.Jesus Loves us,He is not hitler.
Love God first,Obedience to Him will follow.You will never find someone more loving than Jesus.Meditate on the Cross of Christ,from there Holy Spirit will fill you and lead you.Jesus does not live in our comfy zones,and when we are close to Him we enjoy the immense Peace and Calm that world cannot give.The life styles of this world will appear as dung in front of it.Sorry for the harsh word there,but that's the word intended when Apostle spoke of worldly privileges.
"Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ," Philippians 3: 8 KJV
The main aim is win Christ.Check it how much you want the world then.
Pray to God to fill you with His Love and you will follow Him when that peace begins to overflow from your heart.
God Bless

I appreciate what you say, ji.

But what if you already have a tattoo?

For example, if a Christian woman has a tattoo of an ex-non-Christian bf's name, e.g., 'Bill', and it's hard to remove, getting the 'Bill' changed to 'Bible', for example, is much more straightforward, and can also lead to witness discussions.

Blessings.