The 1 John 1:9 Lie: More New.Modern.Hyper Grace blasphemy

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Sep 4, 2012
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#1
New.modern.hyper grace teachers teach the lie that John wrote what he wrote in 1 John 1:9 to unbelieving gnostics rather than to his children in the faith. I know; it's ridiculous. They have absolutely no evidence to backup this claim, but they need this lie to undergird their lie that it is not necessary for believers to acknowledge sin for forgiveness. Some go so far as to say that doing so is unbelief. I read somewhere that Joseph Prince realized 1 John 1:9 contradicted his teachings, so he changed its interpretation to suit his agenda$. Now all of the new.modern.grace copycats regurgitate it without shame or good sense. As far as I know, this interpretation was non-existent until Prince.

It's obvious that 'we' in 1 John refers to the apostles who actually heard, saw and touched Jesus.

​What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and our hands have touched, concerning the word of life— and the life was revealed, and we have seen and testify and announce to you the eternal life which was with the Father and was revealed to uswhat we have seen and heard, we announce to you also, in order that you also may have fellowship with us, and indeed our fellowship [is] with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:1-3

Those addressed as 'you' were other believers who were not personal witnesses of Christ. They would have been like those mentioned in the book of Hebrews.

How will we escape [if we] neglect so great a salvation which had [its] beginning [when it] was spoken through the Lord [and] was confirmed to us by those who heard, Hebrews 2:3

This is verified by John's expression of the hope that the apostles' joy may be full, not the joy of the believers to whom he wrote. This undoubtedly refers to the apostles' joy of seeing their spiritual children, those whom they had begotten in the faith, grow into maturity, because it mirrors a similar statement made by Paul that expresses a similar hope of joy.

And these [things] we write, in order that our joy may be complete. 1 John 1:4

Complete my joy, so that you are in agreement, having the same love, united in spirit, having one purpose. Philippians 2:2

John then tells his spiritual children who didn't know Christ personally spiritual principles and truths that the apostles learned firsthand from Christ.
And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce to you, that God is light and there [is] no darkness in him at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we do not have sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, so that he will forgive us [our] sins and will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:5-10

Then John makes clear who is addressed as 'you' in his letter by calling then his spiritual children in the faith.
​​
My little children, I am writing these [things] to you in order that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous [one], 1 John 2:1
 

FreeNChrist

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2015
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#2
And how do you reconcile your understanding of 1 John 1:9 with the overwhelming testimony of scripture affirming that those who are in Christ ARE forgiven, that we HAVE forgiveness in Christ??

- Acts 10:43 - "everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins"
- Eph. 1:7 - "in Him we have...the forgiveness of our trespasses"
- Eph. 4:32 - "God in Christ has forgiven you"
- Col. 1:14 - "we have...the forgiveness of sins"
- Col. 2:13 - "having forgiven all our transgressions
- I John 2:12 - "your sins are forgiven"
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#3
Amen!...then there is all of this...

Forgiveness is a done deal bought for by the blood of our Lord. Despite what our religious upbringing has taught us. This is what scripture has to say about forgiveness not men's made up terms to support their religious views.

1 John 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.

have been forgiven = perfect passive

Perfect Tense

The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect.

In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action.

passive = voice = action is happening to you....you are not doing it

Without a doubt this verse says that the sins are forgiven from a past action that remains in a continuous state and that was put on them....not something they did


Brethren ...we have a great salvation in our Lord!

Here are some more scriptures on the forgiveness of God thru the precious blood of our Lord!....


Ephesians 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

We have redemption = present continuous action...so this means we have present continuous forgiveness of our sins...and look...that hyper-grace stuff shows up again!...it's all according to our loving Father's grace that He has given to us in Christ our Lord.

Colossians 1:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Same thing here too...present continuous action = forgiveness of sins


Redemption!..we have been bought with the precious Blood of Jesus... Let's honor His work!


And how do you reconcile your understanding of 1 John 1:9 with the overwhelming testimony of scripture affirming that those who are in Christ ARE forgiven, that we HAVE forgiveness in Christ??

- Acts 10:43 - "everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins"
- Eph. 1:7 - "in Him we have...the forgiveness of our trespasses"
- Eph. 4:32 - "God in Christ has forgiven you"
- Col. 1:14 - "we have...the forgiveness of sins"
- Col. 2:13 - "having forgiven all our transgressions
- I John 2:12 - "your sins are forgiven"
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
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#4
Amen!...then there is all of this...

Forgiveness is a done deal bought for by the blood of our Lord. Despite what our religious upbringing has taught us. This is what scripture has to say about forgiveness not men's made up terms to support their religious views.

1 John 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.

have been forgiven = perfect passive

Perfect Tense

The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect.

In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action.

passive = voice = action is happening to you....you are not doing it

Without a doubt this verse says that the sins are forgiven from a past action that remains in a continuous state and that was put on them....not something they did


Brethren ...we have a great salvation in our Lord!

Here are some more scriptures on the forgiveness of God thru the precious blood of our Lord!....


Ephesians 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

We have redemption = present continuous action...so this means we have present continuous forgiveness of our sins...and look...that hyper-grace stuff shows up again!...it's all according to our loving Father's grace that He has given to us in Christ our Lord.

Colossians 1:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Same thing here too...present continuous action = forgiveness of sins


Redemption!..we have been bought with the precious Blood of Jesus... Let's honor His work!

True, sin is forgiven us for His Names Sake.

But there is nevertheless a need for daily forgiveness from our Father (Matt 6.12-15),
 

FreeNChrist

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2015
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#5
True, sin is forgiven us for His Names Sake.

But there is nevertheless a need for daily forgiveness from our Father (Matt 6.12-15),
Well, make up your mind.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#6
I believe their error is thinking all past, present, and future ongoing sin is forgiven without any repentance and or asking of forgiveness needed, but clearly this is not what the scriptures suggest.

Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"

To say we no longer need to ask for any forgiveness if we sin in the future is not only contrary to sound doctrine, but is a position of pride and arrogance manifest in their rebellious attitude toward what is plainly written. To me it shows a total disrespect to God and to His words concerning forgiveness, and it also shows a total lack of humility.
 

FreeNChrist

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2015
7,877
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#7
I believe their error is thinking all past, present, and future ongoing sin is forgiven without any repentance and or asking of forgiveness needed, but clearly this is not what the scriptures suggest.
ALL of your sins were in the future when Jesus shed His blood on the cross, and He isn't coming back to shed His blood on a cross again.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#8
ALL of your sins were in the future when Jesus shed His blood on the cross, and He isn't coming back to shed His blood on a cross again.
That's why it is so important for you to be set free from sin and stop sinning!

Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
 

FreeNChrist

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2015
7,877
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#9
That's why it is so important for you to be set free from sin and stop sinning!

Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
No, that's why it's so important to not trample underfoot the Grace of God.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#10
Here is the teaching on Hebrews 10....the willful sin is rejecting Christ as the sacrifice for sins..

[video=youtube;IJ0i7NEYufo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ0i7NEYufo[/video]
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#11
ALL of your sins were in the future when Jesus shed His blood on the cross, and He isn't coming back to shed His blood on a cross again.
Sins weren't forgiven at the cross. They were forgiven when Christ took his blood to the throne of GOD in heaven to present proof of his death. That blood is still there providing freedom from all sin.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
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#12
I believe their error is thinking all past, present, and future ongoing sin is forgiven without any repentance and or asking of forgiveness needed, but clearly this is not what the scriptures suggest.

Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"

To say we no longer need to ask for any forgiveness if we sin in the future is not only contrary to sound doctrine, but is a position of pride and arrogance manifest in their rebellious attitude toward what is plainly written. To me it shows a total disrespect to God and to His words concerning forgiveness, and it also shows a total lack of humility.
It's blasphemy.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#14
And how do you reconcile your understanding of 1 John 1:9 with the overwhelming testimony of scripture affirming that those who are in Christ ARE forgiven, that we HAVE forgiveness in Christ??

- Acts 10:43 - "everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins"
- Eph. 1:7 - "in Him we have...the forgiveness of our trespasses"
- Eph. 4:32 - "God in Christ has forgiven you"
- Col. 1:14 - "we have...the forgiveness of sins"
- Col. 2:13 - "having forgiven all our transgressions
- I John 2:12 - "your sins are forgiven"
Those people's past sins were forgiven. Those verses say nothing about sins that they hadn't committed yet.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#15
Scripture isolated can cause all sorts of opinions and traditions to be put in place

Pay attention to the ..we and our and the you in 1 John chapter 1



"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we (believers - namely John ) have looked at and our hands have touched - this we proclaim concerning the Word of Life"

(I John 1:1).
In other words, John is establishing that he was an eyewitness to the fact that Jesus truly did come in the flesh. He did this to convince the Gnostics that Jesus was not an illusion.

"We ( believers - namely John himself ) proclaim to you (unbelievers - gnostics
) what we have seen and heard, so that you (unbelievers - gnostics ) also may have fellowship with us ( believers ). And our ( believers )fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ" (verse 3).

This verse says two things. First, John repeats the fact that he, the rest of the apostles and other people saw Christ in the flesh. He wanted the Gnostics ( unbelievers ) to realize that there were many people who could testify to the reality of Christ.

Second, he is saying that there are some people in the audience who were not in the fellowship with Christ. (
just like we do now in all churches....there are both types of people )

"This is the message we ( believers ) have heard from Him and declare to you ( unbelievers ): God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all" (verse 5).

John's message in this verse is clear: God is light and in Him there is no darkness. We are either in the light (saved) or in darkness (lost). Scriptures are full of this comparison between light (saved) vs. darkness (lost).


"If we claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth." (verse 6).

In other words, if someone says he has fellowship with Christ, but is walking in darkness (lost), he is lying and not practicing the truth. The Gnostics ( not true believers ) claimed to be in fellowship with Christ (saved), and yet were actually living a lie and therefore weren't practicing the truth.

"If we( believers )
walk in the light, as He is in the light, we ( believers ) have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us ( believers ) from all sin" (verse 7).

In other words, if we walk in the light (are saved) we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. To put it another way, once we are saved, we are permanently in the fellowship because the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin.

Therefore, we aren't forgiven because we confess our sins. We are forgiven because of what Christ did for us on the cross.

"If we( John putting all of us in the same boat before coming to Christ ) claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (verse 8).

John is now addressing the belief the Gnostics had regarding sin because they didn't believe it was real and therefore believed they had no sin. The "we" John is using here refers to all people before coming to Christ including all believers too which "we" had to acknowledge at some point in our lives.

He is referring specifically to the Gnostics, who believed they were without sin. Because they claimed to be without sin, then they were only deceiving themselves and the truth (Jesus) was not in them.

However, verse 9 says that "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." In other words, if the Gnostics were to confess they had sins, then God, Who is faithful and righteous, would forgive and cleanse them from their unrighteousness.

In the Greek language, the words "forgive" and "cleanse" mean past actions that have results today and will continue to have results in the future. Also, the word "all" used in these verses means all. It doesn't mean that we are cleansed of our past sins and our past unrighteousness, it means we were cleansed of all our unrighteousness. And if God cleanses us from all unrighteousness, then we are cleansed forever!

"If we claim we ( all of us were in this boat at one time ) have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and His word has no place in our lives" (verse 10).

Basically this verse is a repeat of verse 8. To put it simply, it means that the Gnostics can't claim to be without sin and yet be saved. John is saying that because the Gnostics claimed they had no sin, they were actually calling God a liar and therefore didn't know the truth.

The purpose of the first chapter of 1 John was to compare the truth of God to the error of gnosticism. John was addressing the Gnostics, who were deceived by their own teaching. He wanted the Gnostics to understand that what they believed conflicted with what God said. He was not, however, addressing believers.
 

FreeNChrist

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2015
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#16
Those people's past sins were all forgiven. Those verses say nothing about sins that they hadn't committed yet.
"Those" people are "we" who are in Christ. And it was written about "we" almost 2000 years ago. So.......
 

FreeNChrist

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2015
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#18
Sins weren't forgiven at the cross. They were forgiven when Christ took his blood to the throne of GOD in heaven to present proof of his death. That blood is still there providing freedom from all sin.
Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. He has shed His blood ONCE and FOR ALL. His one sacrifice alone is what provides for your forgiveness. To say otherwise is to reject the efficacy of the Cross and to make yourself and what you do the basis for your forgiveness in the place of Jesus and what He has done.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#19
To me it is a haughty spirit of pride and rebellion that rejects what is plainly written in scripture. And rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft to God.

1 Samuel 15:23
For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

And who is the king over the children of pride? :)
 

FreeNChrist

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2015
7,877
163
0
#20
To me it is a haughty spirit of pride and rebellion that rejects what is plainly written in scripture. And rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft to God.

1 Samuel 15:23
For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

And who is the king over the children of pride? :)
To you? There is your haughty spirit.