The 1 John 1:9 Lie: More New.Modern.Hyper Grace blasphemy
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This is NKJV, I don't know the original, but in Dutch it's just sins.
How do you know that? If I read the context (no rain because of sin, sickness, sin problem, erring brother) it looks more like it's about telling someone if you're in sin so they can pray for you. Even if this text wasn't about confessing your sins, how on earth can anyone help you if you don't tell what the problem is? And why do believers need to talk things out to restore the relationship, but not towards Jesus? He's also a Person. I think it's extremely impolite to just cheat on Him and love the world and just go on with that and not even say sorry. How can you repent from a sin if you don't confess it? I can't. I had times where I almost never confessed bad words spoken or anger and it went on and on and on and on. I didn't even notice it anymore. It had become so normal. Confessing sins and repenting is so powerful. We have to give account of every word we spoke, so better confess, ask forgiveness, be set free and ask others to set you free if necessary.
Here, read it. Some sicknesses are because of sin or unforgiveness. That's what it is about. Confess the sins so you get healed.
13*Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms.*14*Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.*15*And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.*16*Confess*your*trespasses[e]*to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.*17*Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months.18*And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit.
Bring Back the Erring One
19*Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,*20*let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul[f]*from death and cover a multitude of sins.
How do you know that? If I read the context (no rain because of sin, sickness, sin problem, erring brother) it looks more like it's about telling someone if you're in sin so they can pray for you. Even if this text wasn't about confessing your sins, how on earth can anyone help you if you don't tell what the problem is? And why do believers need to talk things out to restore the relationship, but not towards Jesus? He's also a Person. I think it's extremely impolite to just cheat on Him and love the world and just go on with that and not even say sorry. How can you repent from a sin if you don't confess it? I can't. I had times where I almost never confessed bad words spoken or anger and it went on and on and on and on. I didn't even notice it anymore. It had become so normal. Confessing sins and repenting is so powerful. We have to give account of every word we spoke, so better confess, ask forgiveness, be set free and ask others to set you free if necessary.
Here, read it. Some sicknesses are because of sin or unforgiveness. That's what it is about. Confess the sins so you get healed.
13*Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms.*14*Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.*15*And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.*16*Confess*your*trespasses[e]*to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.*17*Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months.18*And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit.
Bring Back the Erring One
19*Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,*20*let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul[f]*from death and cover a multitude of sins.
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K
Why do I need to be careful when the bible clearly gives the answer to the question I posed ???
You do know judging those inside the body when they are walking improper is allowed, it is only those outside the body we are not to judge.............1 Corinthians 5 take a look !!!
Then you put forth a scripture that has nothing to do with what is being said, as that scripture has to do with receiving the Holy Spirit, not how believers with the Holy Spirit will act...
We have enough scriptures to show the fruit of the Spirit and believers will walk in these, thus why Jesus told us we will know them by their fruit; the believers from the unbelievers !!!
You do know judging those inside the body when they are walking improper is allowed, it is only those outside the body we are not to judge.............1 Corinthians 5 take a look !!!
Then you put forth a scripture that has nothing to do with what is being said, as that scripture has to do with receiving the Holy Spirit, not how believers with the Holy Spirit will act...
We have enough scriptures to show the fruit of the Spirit and believers will walk in these, thus why Jesus told us we will know them by their fruit; the believers from the unbelievers !!!
Good to see the law and grace debate is back in full force 
we had a few days with folks posting on some crazy stuff like hell is not so bad and universal salvation stuff ... I respect legalist even as they are wrong, most of them want to obey and please God ...they just don't understand the difference between the flesh and the Spirit or how we have gone from the law of Moses to the law of Christ.
we had a few days with folks posting on some crazy stuff like hell is not so bad and universal salvation stuff ... I respect legalist even as they are wrong, most of them want to obey and please God ...they just don't understand the difference between the flesh and the Spirit or how we have gone from the law of Moses to the law of Christ.
resulting, to this.
4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.(falling back to jewish religion, etc.
they keep asking, how can you lose grace. in the case it is relying again on law of moses.
legalist as in non christian jew. also the law of moses was attached to the law of the land.
keeping your mind trapped on yesterday ,(logos) you will not connect to the spirit,(rhema) today.(the spirit given after a return to heaven ie pentecoste, ..................ie forward in history etc.
ie the usa constitution said it ok to fornicate, be homosexual, etc. (a most of europe and the uk included) ie a religious taboo, etc
20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Romans 5 (baring in mind judge not or be judged.) death now being conquered, is not attached, to the law of the land etc.
so if your going to use face value scripture. cut off from grace. then you have a new enemy, not sin , not a demon, not the devil,
6 And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earthRevelation 5
3 When he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, "Come!"4 And out came another horse, bright red. Its rider was permitted to take peace from the earth, so that people should slay one another, and he was given a great sword. (kill means slay)
and a ligalist is simple would be know as a police man back in the time of jesus. (would be close as a definition that comes near etc)
i dont have a problem with legalist either, because the new covenant, protects, in more ways that,one.
but if they are laying a foundation not in line with the master builder.( ie paul) they are just as well, being on a pogo stick, keep bouncing to no avail. etc.
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Have to go, but do you really think one who is walking in a hateful and unforgiving demeanor is in Christ and thus saved ???
Matthew 7: Judging Others
1 "Judge not, that you be not judged.2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?4 Or how can you say to your brother,'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye?5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
6 "Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.
you claim to know fruits , are your having a laugh.
if they are not, then why, should we listen to you. when did your words save anyone.
2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh Galatians 3
spot the difference. etc
The prefect tense argument does not work. If I have a disease and then say I have been healed, does that mean I won't get another disease or the same disease in the future? If broke my car and I said I got my car fixed, does that mean my car wont break in the future?
The Woman who was accused with adultery, Jesus said to her "neither do I condemn you" (present tense of the sin forgiven) but he also said to go and sin no more (future tense not to sin anymore). The present tense only describes what is true at that time, the present, it is not meant to project the same truth at a future time. When Jesus healed the lame and sick, does that mean they never got sick again?
The Woman who was accused with adultery, Jesus said to her "neither do I condemn you" (present tense of the sin forgiven) but he also said to go and sin no more (future tense not to sin anymore). The present tense only describes what is true at that time, the present, it is not meant to project the same truth at a future time. When Jesus healed the lame and sick, does that mean they never got sick again?
Nice humanistic way to try to nullify the work of the blood and sacrifice of our Lord Jesus....despite what scriptures have to say about how His work is Finished!...but hey you are free to think anything you want...
The perfect tense is used when Jesus said "It is finished"..so that means it's not really finished..He has to do it again..foolishness and humanistic thinking to protect a "sacred cow"..
The perfect tense is used when Jesus said "It is finished"..so that means it's not really finished..He has to do it again..foolishness and humanistic thinking to protect a "sacred cow"..
His work on earth as the sacrifice for sin is finished. His work as high priest with his blood continues in heaven.
But [Christ], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. Hebrews 7:24-25
But [Christ], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. Hebrews 7:24-25
K
This is the problem with the hyper-grace doctrine that many Greek scholars have tried to point out to them about the perfect tense argument they use. Because they use it in the sense of totality to never be repeated !!!
We have one clear example in the Word of God that disproves this stance:
That is the sick man by the pool who was healed by Jesus in John 5..................
Jesus healed the man, and this was stated in the perfect tense here of the man being healed, but did Jesus say he was healed for all time and would never get sick again thus needing to be healed again ??? NO
Jesus told him this;
John 5:14
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
Jesus told him if he went and continued to sin a worse outcome would come to him !!!
There are 2 aspects to grace...first Jesus had to deal with the religious people zealous for the law and got rid of them...then He was free to speak with the woman caught in adultery.
1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you". It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.
2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace. Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you are in Christ now.
The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you." The grace of God speaks of better things!
Knowing that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!
Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.
What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based gospel have a very hard time with is the "acceptance grace" part...this just drives them nuts...and I understand why..it is scandalous!
1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you". It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.
2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace. Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you are in Christ now.
The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you." The grace of God speaks of better things!
Knowing that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!
Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.
What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based gospel have a very hard time with is the "acceptance grace" part...this just drives them nuts...and I understand why..it is scandalous!
What you really mean is .." they don't believe in MY interpretation of scripture like I do..."
Ok..you can be the one to go tell Jesus that what He said is not true...He has to be re-crucified again..as it is not finished!...be my guest..I'd rather believe in what He says to be true....I am a stance believer in Jesus and in His finished work.
Ok..you can be the one to go tell Jesus that what He said is not true...He has to be re-crucified again..as it is not finished!...be my guest..I'd rather believe in what He says to be true....I am a stance believer in Jesus and in His finished work.
K
Have to go, but do you really think one who is walking in a hateful and unforgiving demeanor is in Christ and thus saved ???
Matthew 7: Judging Others
1 "Judge not, that you be not judged.2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?4 Or how can you say to your brother,'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye?5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
6 "Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.
you claim to know fruits , are your having a laugh.
if they are not, then why, should we listen to you. when did your words save anyone.
2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh Galatians 3
spot the difference. etc
So instead of answering the question you instead come back with lies and insults !!!
It is not judging (wrongful judging) when the Word of God gives a clear answer to the question I put forward, why are you and a few others afraid to answer simple questions the bible gives the answer to.
Do you few have an issue with your "yes being yes, and no being no" ???
To not answer a simple question with a yes or no shows the indecisiveness of the doctrine you have been taught !!!
They make you feel as if you are in the wrong or judging wrongfully if you call other brothers out in their sins, but at the same time you still are doing this judging that you claim on others shouldn't be done.
And again you show you don't know the difference of walking in the Spirit vs. walking in the flesh, as you claim one who is speaking on obedience out of love to Christ is walking in the flesh.
Walking in the flesh is being sinful, which is why the written ordinances of the Mosaic law can make no person justified. Because no person can keep them all perfectly !!!
You can not go and slap those scriptures speaking on the works of the law (written ordinances of the Mosaic law) to apply to all works, by doing so you will always have the wrong conclusion !!!
K
The problem with your stance that we are trying to show you is that in the case of His ministry to usher in the New Covenant, His death on the cross for our sins to dedicate the New Covenant, and that paying the debt for our sins is what "It is Finished" refers to.
It does not apply to how one gets placed under God's grace to receive that remission of their sins and thus be reconciled to God. That has steps in the faith to be taken !!!
Hyper-grace doctrine places everything done at the cross and there is no more for a believer to do, but that is nowhere taught in the Word of God.
Jesus Himself said, "to much is given, much will be required"................Luke 12:48
Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior even told the original Apostles/disciples He had much more to tell them, but they could not bear it yet............John 16:12
They could not bear it because they were still struggling to accept what He told them to do already, and they needed the Holy Spirit to help them do the rest !!!
You continue to think we are denying the Lord when in reality we are going by all that He said while you are only going by half to build doctrine off of, that going by half is dangerous !!!
It does not apply to how one gets placed under God's grace to receive that remission of their sins and thus be reconciled to God. That has steps in the faith to be taken !!!
Hyper-grace doctrine places everything done at the cross and there is no more for a believer to do, but that is nowhere taught in the Word of God.
Jesus Himself said, "to much is given, much will be required"................Luke 12:48
Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior even told the original Apostles/disciples He had much more to tell them, but they could not bear it yet............John 16:12
They could not bear it because they were still struggling to accept what He told them to do already, and they needed the Holy Spirit to help them do the rest !!!
You continue to think we are denying the Lord when in reality we are going by all that He said while you are only going by half to build doctrine off of, that going by half is dangerous !!!
