The 2nd Commandment and Images of Jesus

[garee]

Better check up. The Law is only given to Israel (Ex.34:27). But you have a point. Do the Jews know better? Their history says something else.

History as a private interpretation?


Yes not all Israel is born again Israel or not all Christians are Christians , The new name our father named his bride, more befitting name for the bride of all nation as residents of the city of Christ prepared as his bride named after her founder, Christ .

Not all Jews are inward(not seen) )born of the Spirit of Christ. How would trusting their private interpretation be better that trusting one of a gentile believer? Skin color?

 

[Bede]

I am a Christian and when i am in a Christian forum i want to fellowship with other Christians.. The fact that you a roman catholic are allowed to openly and freely promote your false religion in here causes me great disappointment and irritation..

I have no troubles in sharing the truth of my LORD Jesus Christ with seeking muslims or hindus or catholics who may come into this forum as seekers..

But your no seeker Bede.. You're here to preach and push the roman catholic religion which is the enemy of the Gospel of Christ.. This forum may as well allow a muslim immam to preach jihad in here or a hindu guru to promote the worship of vishnu, but i am sure the owner of this forum would not tolerate that for long..

But for some unknown reason a person from a religion that has been the constant enemy of Christ for centuries longer then islam. Who burned my Brothers and Sisters in Christ as the stake in times past is allowed to promote spiritual filth in this place and it disgusts me to the core..

Pure anti-Catholic bigotry. I've reported your post but I have no expection of any action being taken.

 

[Blik]

If images are intrinsically wrong why did God instruct the making of them?
Ex 25:18-20
1Chr 28:18-19
Ez 41:17-18
Num 21:8-9

These images were to be made to service the house of the Lord.

1 Chr. 28: 20 And David said to Solomon his son, Be strong and of good courage, and do it: fear not, nor be dismayed: for the Lord God, even my God, will be with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee, until thou hast finished all the work for the service of the house of the Lord.

 

[Blik]

I agree that the law was only given to Israel. .

And who is Israel? According to Paul it is not the physical descendants but the children of the promise. Aren't we children of the promise?

Romans 9: 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

 

[Bede]

These images were to be made to service the house of the Lord.

1 Chr. 28: 20 And David said to Solomon his son, Be strong and of good courage, and do it: fear not, nor be dismayed: for the Lord God, even my God, will be with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee, until thou hast finished all the work for the service of the house of the Lord.

I agree. And God was teaching them the proper use of images. But first they had to be weaned off idolatry - like the incident with the golden calf..

 

[Blik]

I am an artist, I spend hours a day picturing the world the Lord created and praising God for it by symbolizing it with oil colors. I wonder if the Lord is telling me it is the wrong thing to do?

The seascape you see by my post is my praise of the ocean.

 

[Bede]

And who is Israel? According to Paul it is not the physical descendants but the children of the promise. Aren't we children of the promise?

Romans 9: 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

The Law that God gave to Israel at Sinai was abolished/ abrogated/ nailed to the cross (whatever phrase you like) before Paul wrote that. Gentiles were never under the (Mosaic) Law and never did come under it. The (Mosaic) Law was temporary, to teach about sin (Gal 3:23-26)

 

[p_rehbein]

IMO, the sin (danger) comes from what a person chooses to worship. Worshiping ANY man made idol is surely a very grave sin.................

Other than that, I don't see any big problem with Christ based things............

However, this is the reason I said on another Thread that I don't care too much about what statues are kept or destroyed.............. because I don't love or worship them

(edited to add)

As well, too many people turn to Laws under the 1st Covenant to seek how they should live today. Not too good an idea IMO. Turn to the Gospel of Christ in the New Covenant Testament to learn how to live Christ like.

 

[garee]

A rag bag of errors. Not worth answering.

LOL Not worthy of removing the 3,500 workers with familiar spirits according to the law of your fathers/ or according the law of he Christian Father, one is our Father in heaven. You simply have another written authority that you must call Devine. Seeking the approval of corrupted mankind is different that seeking the approval of god who is not a man .Gotta love your sacred traditons

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 80
www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/80.htm
Catechism of the Catholic Church. 80 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal." Each of them makes present and fruitful in the Church the mystery of Christ, who promised to remain with his own "always, to the close of the age".

Christians are made aware of the wile of the father of lies. "You will not surely die look at my flesh and blood and live".

 

[JeremiahsCup]

You are not to make images of the ineffable face of the Lord.

 

[Blik]

The Law that God gave to Israel at Sinai was abolished/ abrogated/ nailed to the cross (whatever phrase you like) before Paul wrote that. Gentiles were never under the (Mosaic) Law and never did come under it. The (Mosaic) Law was temporary, to teach about sin (Gal 3:23-26)

As you teach against God law, you are teaching people to betray God in their hearts. Romans 2: 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them.

We do not need to obey the ritual law given to train the Israelites who were so steeped in Egyptian occult they needed help to live by faith in the Lord. We are given the Holy Spirit to help us now. But God's law is not cancelled at all, and you are told by the Lord not to preach such.

 

[Blik]

How God's laws are to work for us was shown in the ten commandments. All the commandments show the basic law of the Lord of love, and those commandments were not and never will be abolished. We are told not to make images of what God has created because we are to love the Lord with all our mind, heart, and soul. If we think we can copy what God has done ourselves, we are not giving the Lord all of our devotion.

 

[garee]

The Law that God gave to Israel at Sinai was abolished/ abrogated/ nailed to the cross (whatever phrase you like) before Paul wrote that. Gentiles were never under the (Mosaic) Law and never did come under it. The (Mosaic) Law was temporary, to teach about sin (Gal 3:23-26)

Who is under the written law of catholic the fathers (the venerable ones) .Not the pew catholic. They must seek the fathers approval .The ones that they call all things written in the law of God and the prophets of God heresy. So that they might keep their oral tradition of usurping our Father in heaven law. turning the Pope into a god in the likeness of men.

Take a little walk in Acts then choose which teaching Master you will follow as a law. No man can serve two .>

Acts 22 King James Version (KJV) Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you. (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,) I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, (commandment of men) and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

Two chapter later they pursue Paul with Paganism "the license to murder". . Out of sight out of mind. Pitting the law of the legion of fathers against the law of our One father not seen contrary to his law

Acts23:3 Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to God's law?

Two opposing laws.

Acts23:12;13 And when it was day, certain of the Jews banded together, and bound themselves under a curse, saying that they would neither eat nor drink till they had killed Paul. And they were more than forty which had made this conspiracy.

Acts 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law.

Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, (not fathers as God) believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Sola scriptura is the reforming power of God. it was during the above reformation(1st century) and continued with copy cats in the 15th. century . The murderous spree was finally put to rest.

 

[Bede]

Who is under the written law of catholic the fathers (the venerable ones) .Not the pew catholic. They must seek the fathers approval .The ones that they call all things written in the law of God and the prophets of God heresy. So that they might keep their oral tradition of usurping our Father in heaven law. turning the Pope into a god in the likeness of men.

Take a little walk in Acts then choose which teaching Master you will follow as a law. No man can serve two .>

Acts 22 King James Version (KJV) Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you. (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,) I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, (commandment of men) and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

Two chapter later they pursue Paul with Paganism "the license to murder". . Out of sight out of mind. Pitting the law of the legion of fathers against the law of our One father not seen contrary to his law

Acts23:3 Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to God's law?

Two opposing laws.

Acts23:12;13 And when it was day, certain of the Jews banded together, and bound themselves under a curse, saying that they would neither eat nor drink till they had killed Paul. And they were more than forty which had made this conspiracy.

Acts 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law.

Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, (not fathers as God) believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Sola scriptura is the reforming power of God. it was during the above reformation(1st century) and continued with copy cats in the 15th. century . The murderous spree was finally put to rest.

Another rag bag of errors

 

[Bede]

LOL Not worthy of removing the 3,500 workers with familiar spirits according to the law of your fathers/ or according the law of he Christian Father, one is our Father in heaven. You simply have another written authority that you must call Devine. Seeking the approval of corrupted mankind is different that seeking the approval of god who is not a man .Gotta love your sacred traditons

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 80
www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/80.htm
Catechism of the Catholic Church. 80 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal." Each of them makes present and fruitful in the Church the mystery of Christ, who promised to remain with his own "always, to the close of the age".

Christians are made aware of the wile of the father of lies. "You will not surely die look at my flesh and blood and live".

What are you rambling on about?

 

[Bede]

As you teach against God law, you are teaching people to betray God in their hearts. Romans 2: 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them.

We do not need to obey the ritual law given to train the Israelites who were so steeped in Egyptian occult they needed help to live by faith in the Lord. We are given the Holy Spirit to help us now. But God's law is not cancelled at all, and you are told by the Lord not to preach such.

What are you saying? I'm finding it difficult to follow your argument.
Do we follow the law given to the Israelites in the desert or not?

 

[Magenta]

That's only true to begin with, later the true beauty of the Lord is manifest and it is great and desirable. We do not worship an ugly God, but a perfect one, and if we don't see that perfection the problem is with us not God who is the author of beauty. What made Jesus undesirable to us is what makes him beautiful to God. We should desire him not because he is beautiful to us but because he is beautiful to God

True Also, Jesus looked so different in His post-resurrection state, that others did not readily recognize him

 

[Corban]

History as a private interpretation?


Yes not all Israel is born again Israel or not all Christians are Christians , The new name our father named his bride, more befitting name for the bride of all nation as residents of the city of Christ prepared as his bride named after her founder, Christ .

Not all Jews are inward(not seen) )born of the Spirit of Christ. How would trusting their private interpretation be better that trusting one of a gentile believer? Skin color?

I answer only the red. You have a point. I was not precise. So let me say correctly then; "the history of Israel as found in the Bible".

God bless.

 

[Blik]

What are you saying? I'm finding it difficult to follow your argument.
Do we follow the law given to the Israelites in the desert or not?

How can I answer you in a few words! It is a matter of defining the "Law of Moses".

If you read history to learn what people of Christ's time were facing, one of the main discussions was about the Law of Moses. At that time they thought of that as, not the ten commandments they knew were forever, but the laws about Jewish customs. Gamalier and Jewish scholars were concerned about people who converted, joining a synagogue. When pagan parties came along they dumped the synagogue and partied, taking Jewish friends with them. In defense scholars made 18 rules for joining the synagogue like diet and circumcision. They called these the Laws of Moses and it wasn't only Paul who objected, the entire country was up in arms except the Pharisees. Everyone knew Paul meant these laws by the Law of Moses, but people today don't know what he meant and Paul doesn't explain.

There is plenty of writings speaking of the 18 laws but there is no copy of these that survived.

So. I listen to Paul, these 18 laws are gone, but God's laws expressing love are eternal.

 

[Blik]

IMO, the sin (danger) comes from what a person chooses to worship. Worshiping ANY man made idol is surely a very grave sin.................

Other than that, I don't see any big problem with Christ based things............

However, this is the reason I said on another Thread that I don't care too much about what statues are kept or destroyed.............. because I don't love or worship them

(edited to add)

As well, too many people turn to Laws under the 1st Covenant to seek how they should live today. Not too good an idea IMO. Turn to the Gospel of Christ in the New Covenant Testament to learn how to live Christ like.

How do you think you can live the Christian life, as you express it, if you won't listen to any instructions about how to do it, as the laws are? People here say the law is abolished, we aren't to listen to the Lord. They say the Lord speaks to Israel, the physical nation and we aren't even to listen in, God doesn't speak to us. Then they say the Lord takes back His promises by abolishing the old covenant. !!!! Not that it became obsolete because our wonderful lord gave us all the Holy Spirit to guide us so we don't have to be guided by physical rules any longer, we are now guided by the spirit. That would be praiseworthy of the Lord and they seem bent on anything to obstruct the truth.

But these false statements saying God's words to us aren't eternal, we can't go by what God tells us because God changes His mind and takes His promises back are obnoxious and hateful.