The Abomination of Desolation

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iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
4,306
419
83
that must of been a great experience, fearful but great That terrible ordeal was a warning that the antichrists are here and when men violate the warning in 1 John 2:26 -27not to put your faith in the things seen, men. Satan's foot is in the door just sa it mas in Mathew 16:22-23 . Judgement begin in the high places, the church and the government.

Christians walk by faith. The high place of God not seen. God is no longer brining any new revelations for over two thousand years . We have all of the written word needed to know His living abiding will. Why go beyond that which is written as a private interpretation of men?

How can we make American Great again as in the golden years when God was victorious over the nations that knew him not, other than sending out the gospel? Is there any other way?[/QUOTE]


It has been the experience of a lifetime Ive gone from cars that were no more complicated than a lawnmower to the invention of the weed eater,lol... I watch the news,documentaries ect. today and think that the history is in fact written by the victors. Why I say that is that for the most part what they show is true enough to keep them out of trouble but with a whole lot left out kind of like the movies they make(ten commandments,Noah ect.) that leave the ones who read the bible shaking their heads. I never met Jones Manson ect.(was in Texas then) but many I new traveled back and forth to there with music ect. My family was friends with Floyd Tillman,Percy Sledge ect.

I don't see the term Antichrist and man of sin as the same thing/person as you see them though,lol. I began sailing sailboats when I was about 13(my father was a Texas shrimper till the 60's) pubs,honky tonks ect. are all over the coast and so buying and selling seafood products is an environment where you end up making a strange group of acquaintances. I met rock stars country music stars(I play Guitar so it was a mutual conversation) lol, It's a wonder I saw to go the direction of family and God instead of the path I was headed.

I was in my prime of life in the summer of love(1967) and think it to actually be a blessing to witness the Jesus movement,some call it Jesus freaks,lol and thought I needed to go and see all the hundreds of communes(so called) that sprang up in the U.S. so in the midst of it was told about the two different types that existed then. one was the druggies devil worshipers(cults) but the other was not they were farms/communes that were trying to get away from mainstream religions and get back to Acts type Church(restoration movement actually) but in the media/history they are all lumped together as Hippies,lol

It was a dangerous time for some who had never read the bible because they believed anything they were told. Some drifted off into the family/Manson ect (who was a Scientologist) others swayed into peoples temple ect. but not most. I knew that Brian Wilson,Frey,Henley ect. were all involved in Manson's family/Scientology stuff from the people I met so never went to California,lol...Any way that's all in the past now I'm an old man with few years left and if others remember then they know the ones born in the 60's 70's were told an whole other story,lol
 

Alertandawake

Senior Member
Aug 20, 2017
334
48
28
Now with the advancements in robotics, and if you have seen on youtube how so close the robot replicas look like the human based on, could such robots be used in place of an actual political leader?

Throughout history, we have evidence of leaders being assassinated, so what if a robot could take the role of said person in appearances and public places?
 
Apr 1, 2018
69
14
8
Someone pointed out that it is the "Abomination that causes Desolation" not the "Abomination of Desolation"
Which is a very important point.

I believe in God, even though i cant see him I know he exist. Hes my God and I love him above all.

If I was tricked into thinking something else was my God then the words i just said would be directed to someone else and giving praise and love to something else as my God would be idolatry. And thats is what the "Abomination that causes Desolation" will be

At the end of times people will be thinking they are following God but the secret is that it wont be God.
Thats how even the elect if possible will be deceived
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
4,306
419
83
Someone pointed out that it is the "Abomination that causes Desolation" not the "Abomination of Desolation"
Which is a very important point.

I believe in God, even though i cant see him I know he exist. Hes my God and I love him above all.

If I was tricked into thinking something else was my God then the words i just said would be directed to someone else and giving praise and love to something else as my God would be idolatry. And thats is what the "Abomination that causes Desolation" will be

At the end of times people will be thinking they are following God but the secret is that it wont be God.
Thats how even the elect if possible will be deceived

indeed,the foolish virgins are told to go to those who sell and buy oil, but in Revelation 18:11 no man will buy her merchandise anymore,,,and all the whole while no one will buy or sell unless they receive the mark of the beast as if the egg is before the chicken?
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
2,835
1,978
113
It has been the experience of a lifetime Ive gone from cars that were no more complicated than a lawnmower to the invention of the weed eater,lol... I watch the news,documentaries ect. today and think that the history is in fact written by the victors. Why I say that is that for the most part what they show is true enough to keep them out of trouble but with a whole lot left out kind of like the movies they make(ten commandments,Noah ect.) that leave the ones who read the bible shaking their heads. I never met Jones Manson ect.(was in Texas then) but many I new traveled back and forth to there with music ect. My family was friends with Floyd Tillman,Percy Sledge ect.

I don't see the term Antichrist and man of sin as the same thing/person as you see them though,lol. I began sailing sailboats when I was about 13(my father was a Texas shrimper till the 60's) pubs,honky tonks ect. are all over the coast and so buying and selling seafood products is an environment where you end up making a strange group of acquaintances. I met rock stars country music stars(I play Guitar so it was a mutual conversation) lol, It's a wonder I saw to go the direction of family and God instead of the path I was headed.

I was in my prime of life in the summer of love(1967) and think it to actually be a blessing to witness the Jesus movement,some call it Jesus freaks,lol and thought I needed to go and see all the hundreds of communes(so called) that sprang up in the U.S. so in the midst of it was told about the two different types that existed then. one was the druggies devil worshipers(cults) but the other was not they were farms/communes that were trying to get away from mainstream religions and get back to Acts type Church(restoration movement actually) but in the media/history they are all lumped together as Hippies,lol

It was a dangerous time for some who had never read the bible because they believed anything they were told. Some drifted off into the family/Manson ect (who was a Scientologist) others swayed into peoples temple ect. but not most. I knew that Brian Wilson,Frey,Henley ect. were all involved in Manson's family/Scientology stuff from the people I met so never went to California,lol...Any way that's all in the past now I'm an old man with few years left and if others remember then they know the ones born in the 60's 70's were told an whole other story,lol
You are a wise man. I love to read about life experience like that. It says in your profile you live in Panama and are from Tuvalu, are those informations still accurate? How is life there?

I didnt know some people considered the Manson Family somehow christian, or maybe they just stopped caring about christianity all together.

You said you dont see antichrist and man of sin as the same thing/person, what do you mean?
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
495
84
28
Someone pointed out that it is the "Abomination that causes Desolation" not the "Abomination of Desolation"
Which is a very important point.

I believe in God, even though i cant see him I know he exist. Hes my God and I love him above all.

If I was tricked into thinking something else was my God then the words i just said would be directed to someone else and giving praise and love to something else as my God would be idolatry. And thats is what the "Abomination that causes Desolation" will be

At the end of times people will be thinking they are following God but the secret is that it wont be God.
Thats how even the elect if possible will be deceived
God is love (1 John 4:8 & 16).
In the end time people will be following what they love, which will be their love for things (idolatry), and which the beast and Antichrists system will provide them.
He (the abomination that maketh desolate) will therefore have the whole faithless world in love with his system (Revelation 13:8); and will also have a place sitting in the hearts of the faithful, where he should not be (2 Thessalonians 2:4).

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
775
113
Someone pointed out that it is the "Abomination that causes Desolation" not the "Abomination of Desolation"
Which is a very important point.
It really depends on what textual version and translation you use. Its only a NIV thing.

New International Version
"When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation' standing where it does not belong--let the reader understand--then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

English Standard Version
“But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Berean Study Bible
So when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Berean Literal Bible
And when you see the abomination of the desolation, standing where it should not (the one reading, let him understand), then those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains;

New American Standard Bible
"But when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

King James Bible
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,109
835
113
It has been the experience of a lifetime Ive gone from cars that were no more complicated than a lawnmower to the invention of the weed eater,lol... I watch the news,documentaries ect. today and think that the history is in fact written by the victors. Why I say that is that for the most part what they show is true enough to keep them out of trouble but with a whole lot left out kind of like the movies they make(ten commandments,Noah ect.) that leave the ones who read the bible shaking their heads. I never met Jones Manson ect.(was in Texas then) but many I new traveled back and forth to there with music ect. My family was friends with Floyd Tillman,Percy Sledge ect.

I don't see the term Antichrist and man of sin as the same thing/person as you see them though,lol. I began sailing sailboats when I was about 13(my father was a Texas shrimper till the 60's) pubs,honky tonks ect. are all over the coast and so buying and selling seafood products is an environment where you end up making a strange group of acquaintances. I met rock stars country music stars(I play Guitar so it was a mutual conversation) lol, It's a wonder I saw to go the direction of family and God instead of the path I was headed.

I was in my prime of life in the summer of love(1967) and think it to actually be a blessing to witness the Jesus movement,some call it Jesus freaks,lol and thought I needed to go and see all the hundreds of communes(so called) that sprang up in the U.S. so in the midst of it was told about the two different types that existed then. one was the druggies devil worshipers(cults) but the other was not they were farms/communes that were trying to get away from mainstream religions and get back to Acts type Church(restoration movement actually) but in the media/history they are all lumped together as Hippies,lol

It was a dangerous time for some who had never read the bible because they believed anything they were told. Some drifted off into the family/Manson ect (who was a Scientologist) others swayed into peoples temple ect. but not most. I knew that Brian Wilson,Frey,Henley ect. were all involved in Manson's family/Scientology stuff from the people I met so never went to California,lol...Any way that's all in the past now I'm an old man with few years left and if others remember then they know the ones born in the 60's 70's were told an whole other story,lol
Percy Sledge a oldy but a goodie.

Thanks for sharing that was great . Its like I want your autograph. Sound like Tom Hanks with the Texas shrimper experience and all life's a box of chocolates.

In 1967 I was drafted at 19, Wanted to go to Canada but no guts .Got orders for Vietnam and ended instead as a mechanic in Korea in a 8 inch self propelled howitzer unit or 15 months. Worked in a foundry for 35 years the last 25 as a maintenance electrician till they kicked out the old timers.

How do you see the term antichrist and the man of sin as not the same thing/person?

How would you describe antichrist singular compared to antichrists plural ?
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
495
84
28
"then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. "

What's interesting is that Judea has no real mountains to speak of.
It's tallest mountain, Mount Carmel in Northern Israel tops out at 1,794 feet.
As such, and since mountains in the bible often denote large nations, might it be that when the abomination that maketh desolate shows up in Judea, that the people there are advised to run to the large nations?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
775
113
"then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. "

What's interesting is that Judea has no real mountains to speak of.
It's tallest mountain, Mount Carmel in Northern Israel tops out at 1,794 feet.
As such, and since mountains in the bible often denote large nations, might it be that when the abomination that maketh desolate shows up in Judea, that the people there are advised to run to the large nations?
These are normal mountains. Yes, its not Alps with 3,000 meters, but its still a mountain area suitable for a run from Romans besieging Jerusalem.



 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
495
84
28
These are normal mountains. Yes, its not Alps with 3,000 meters, but its still a mountain area suitable for a run from Romans besieging Jerusalem.

Barely hills.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
775
113
It does not matter.

Original Word: ὄρος, ους, τό
Definition: a mountain, hill.

It can be translated as hill or as mountain. Greek does not make a difference between a hill and a mountain.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,109
835
113
Someone pointed out that it is the "Abomination that causes Desolation" not the "Abomination of Desolation"
Which is a very important point.

I believe in God, even though i cant see him I know he exist. Hes my God and I love him above all.

If I was tricked into thinking something else was my God then the words i just said would be directed to someone else and giving praise and love to something else as my God would be idolatry. And thats is what the "Abomination that causes Desolation" will be

At the end of times people will be thinking they are following God but the secret is that it wont be God.
Thats how even the elect if possible will be deceived
I would take it one step further and say not so much of what it will be.... but what it is. There were antichrists at the time 1 John was written as those that caused a abomination (blaspheme the name of Christ ) that caused desolation of the holy Place . The holy place is the unseen place of the glory of God reserved for our father in heaven exclusively . The one office of faith that we can seek after as it is written as a law of faith in respect to the unseen eternal . Making the high place as that seen (a temple) the holy place turns things upside down .

Rather than as it is that we do not do, wrestles against flesh and blood the temporal things seen but do wrestle against the invisible things of God, the eternal, the high unseen places. Men turn that upside down and in doing so take away the understanding of God making it without effect.

The idea of building another temple made with human hands and calling that which is seen as the high holy place does turn things upside down .The abomination that causes Desolation

Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye

The Catholic for one insist that a man seen most teach us or they lose their foundation of necromancy . An abomination that causes desolation by removing our father as one in heaven and replacing it with earthly fathers of men. Making all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura) without effect.

Scripture has no real power to them .Seeing they have created their own faith base (necromancy) as a abomination that causes the Holy Spirit to dissolve, disappear . This is seeing no man can serve two teaching masters .(1) The things of men the temporal seen and (2) the things of eternal God not seen

King Josiah when he found the book of the law as all things written in the law and the prophets was moved to perform the words of the book, causing the false source of faith to desolate the high Holy unseen place of our Father in heaven .

2 Kings 23:24 Moreover the "workers with familiar spirits"(patron saints) , and the wizards, and "the images, and the idols", and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the Lord.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
495
84
28
It does not matter.

Original Word: ὄρος, ους, τό
Definition: a mountain, hill.

It can be translated as hill or as mountain. Greek does not make a difference between a hill and a mountain.
You may choose to believe that they in Judea when they see the abomination that maketh desolate should then run to them low hills where they are to hide out for 1,260 days; but I choose what mountains often refer to in the bible, and that is: large nations.
It makes a lot more sense to me, than does camping out for 3.5 times/years.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
4,306
419
83
You are a wise man. I love to read about life experience like that. It says in your profile you live in Panama and are from Tuvalu, are those informations still accurate? How is life there?

I didnt know some people considered the Manson Family somehow christian, or maybe they just stopped caring about christianity all together.

You said you dont see antichrist and man of sin as the same thing/person, what do you mean?

lol, no I was born in Texas but go sailing a lot(or used to)... at the moment I cannot get around as well as when I was young and so I cant upkeep my own house and so live with family members and if I give any(or to much of) my personal info will get the third degree for it,lol As you might understand my sons names are the same or similar to mine and an issue came up several years back as to "who am I speaking with the grandfather the son or the grandson?" so forgive me I'll be breaking a promise if I say who and where I am,lol...

I don't actually see the family(Manson) as Christian but if you read about Scientology and then read the court interviews of the trials(online) you'll have a better idea of Scientology(on document's Manson used Scientologist under religion). But from what I understand you could be Christian,Buddhist,Islam ect. and still be a Scientologist. The ones who were interviewed are confusing to understand without understanding Scientology because they believe they were sent here about 65million yeas ago,stacked around a volcano,blown up and that their spirits have ever since lived and died and then were reincarnated life after life ever since in human bodies,lol...

So Manson/family believed that they were Jesus reincarnated(Manson) and the disciples/apostles spirits were born again and again(reincarnated) and so the others in "the family" were those spirits sent to begin a race war/Armageddon ect. Now all this sounds real bazaar to me(cult in fact) and you seem from your post to be younger and might not know about the many beliefs in the world/U.S. today so you you be real careful my friend there are real full blown cults still in the U.S.,,,

I'm getting away kind of from the scope of the O.P.(which is not right to do) and again maybe not considering what we are discussing but forgive me if it seemed so. I'll address what and why I meant by not seeing the antichrist and man of sin the same when I respond to Garee(you both ask the same ?) the Lord willing.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
495
84
28
It does not matter.

Original Word: ὄρος, ους, τό
Definition: a mountain, hill.

It can be translated as hill or as mountain. Greek does not make a difference between a hill and a mountain.
What do you think the Lords anointed are threshing in this verse?
Isaiah 41:15 Behold, I will make thee a new sharp threshing instrument having teeth: thou shalt thresh the mountains, and beat them small, and shalt make the hills as chaff.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
4,306
419
83
Percy Sledge a oldy but a goodie.

Thanks for sharing that was great . Its like I want your autograph. Sound like Tom Hanks with the Texas shrimper experience and all life's a box of chocolates.

In 1967 I was drafted at 19, Wanted to go to Canada but no guts .Got orders for Vietnam and ended instead as a mechanic in Korea in a 8 inch self propelled howitzer unit or 15 months. Worked in a foundry for 35 years the last 25 as a maintenance electrician till they kicked out the old timers.

How do you see the term antichrist and the man of sin as not the same thing/person?

How would you describe antichrist singular compared to antichrists plural ?

lol, My autograph would not really be such a treasure actually and apologize for leading you to think so in how I worded that. Floyd Tillman and his family were close friends with mine in one direction and in another one my sisters husband played guitar for Percy sledge so it was something around me. I was ask once to play rhythm guitar with a band(some of the remaining members of Canned Heat) but my wife did not want me to because it would have involved travel and involvement in bars which I declined because I chose to be a father and husband instead. Other than that I played briefly with a guitarist who did tour with Bill Monroe(bluegrass was my favorite style) but I'm not as good a guitarist because it's from your heart/mood and my heart was more towards God than bar life.

Now what I said about antichrist/man of sin which is in your mind written first Revelation or the letters written by John? I'll explain why I ask this by asking this,,,In Revelation 17:7-8 the angel says he would tell him the mystery ect... so John himself does not understand the beast that was.was not yet is(verse 8 ) but he does know who or what the antichrist is in the sciptures you gave both singular and plural. So if in the Revelation he doesn't know who it is and needs it explained why does he understand it in the letters where he speaks of it that you gave if they are regarded by most as written before the Revelation? You see he would go from knowing what it is earlier in his life to not knowing later if they are the same...
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
775
113
You may choose to believe that they in Judea when they see the abomination that maketh desolate should then run to them low hills where they are to hide out for 1,260 days; but I choose what mountains often refer to in the bible, and that is: large nations.
It makes a lot more sense to me, than does camping out for 3.5 times/years.
This "camping out" saved lives of thousands of Christians from Jerusalem, because they fled when they saw armies around Jerusalem as Jesus warned them.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
495
84
28
This "camping out" saved lives of thousands of Christians from Jerusalem, because they fled when they saw armies around Jerusalem as Jesus warned them.
When the Romans sacked Jerusalem in 70 AD, Christians had already been exiled from Jerusalem and Judea (Acts 8:1).
They who were in 70 AD Jerusalem were the faithless who years earlier had exiled the faithful.
As such, the Lords wrath fell upon the faithless in Jerusalem to the uttermost (1 Thessalonians 2:16).

Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

1 Thessalonians 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.