The absurdity and heresy of Preterism

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Nov 23, 2013
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Aahhhmm. He did return to heaven. Visibility. In a cloud. Until the restoration per prophecy. Which hasn't happen yet or in 70AD either. Which matches everything DivineWatermark has posted. I have no idea why the confusion. All of this is crystal clear.

Acts 3:21
whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.
I'm not arguing that Jesus didn't go to heaven, I agree that he did and he took Hosea with him. But Hosea 6:1 isn't talking about the ascension, it's talking about the resurrection.

The restoration happened the minute Jesus died. The kingdom was taken from the Jews and given to another nation that is fully capable of bringing in the fruits. Problem solved, the church can now come out of her closet because there's not a pack of wicked Jews trying to kill her now.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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Jesus returned with all power and glory, with all his enemies defeated when he rose from the dead. His kingdom came and some of us are living in it right now. Others are like the Jews, they are still waiting for a physical kingdom with isn't coming. Jesus clearly said "My kingdom is not of this world".

All nations is the gentiles, they were gathered and the chosen ones were given to Christ. Those are the sheep, the goats do not belong to him.
Really? Jesus has already returned in power and glory? Stay tuned you ain't seen nothing yet.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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I'm not arguing that Jesus didn't go to heaven, I agree that he did and he took Hosea with him. But Hosea 6:1 isn't talking about the ascension, it's talking about the resurrection.
The passage states, "IN THEIR [Israel's] AFFLICTION, they [Israel] WILL SEEK ME early..."


[which agrees with a ton of other passages... I've posted references to them, before]


The restoration happened the minute Jesus died. The kingdom was taken from the Jews and given to another nation that is fully capable of bringing in the fruits. Problem solved, the church can now come out of her closet because there's not a pack of wicked Jews trying to kill her now.
The verse in bold refers to "Israel" in the "FUTURE" (not presently).
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Yes, there are TWO PARTS in that Hosea passage, if you will notice in particular, in v.14.


Recall also my related post (which pertains to even "BEFORE His death"... at His "arrest / trials" and the "cut off" issue):


[see the "CUT OFF" wording in: (see below) ]


[quoting old post]

"For I was like a gentle lamb led to slaughter; I did not know that they had plotted against me: “Let us destroy the tree with its fruit; let us cut him off [H3772] from the land of the living, that his name will be remembered no more.” " -- Jeremiah 11:19


https://biblehub.com/text/jeremiah/11-19.htm


[similar to the wording in Isaiah 53:7 which most see as corresponding with Matthew 26:61-63, 27:12-16; Mark 14:57-61, 15:3-4; Luke 23:8-11; John 19:9-10, Jesus' arrest / @ His trials that very week following the conclusion of the 69 Weeks total (Palm Sunday)... See also Zech14:2 there used with a negative, "not be cut off [from the city]"]


[note: I know that Jer11:19 likely refers to Jeremiah the prophet, but I think is also a prophecy concerning Jesus; just like Psalm 72 ("the king chapter") pertains to both Solomon and Jesus; and it's commonly believed that in such contexts ^ , the phrase "the city" pertains to "Jerusalem" and the phrase "the land" (like in Jer11:19 above) pertains specifically to "Israel"; and this would correspond to the phrase in Dan9:26a "shall be cut off [/'but not for himself'; or, 'and have nothing' as some translations have it]"... this makes sense in view of both the prophecy of Dan9:24 which is concerning "DETERMINED UPON thy [Daniel's] people, AND UPON thy [Daniel's] HOLY CITY" and of His "be cut off," in view of these other passages (relating, as I see it)]


Acts 8:31-35 -

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. [<--perhaps TWO parts here in this verse; Part A and Part B, if you will (not saying at different points in time, mind you)]

34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.


[again, see also Matthew 26:61-63, 27:12-16; Mark 14:57-61, 15:3-4; Luke 23:8-11; John 19:9-10 (re: Jesus' arrest / @ His trials)]

-----[and]-----

Notice the phrase "the land of the living" in Jer11:19 ( in that post above ^ )... Which phrase is found 7x in Ezekiel (notice the CONTEXT of the first one) -


Ezekiel 26:20 -

"When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old, with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living;"

[see context from vv.2-3 - "2 Son of man, because that Tyrus hath said against Jerusalem, Aha, she is broken that was the gates of the people: she is turned unto me: I shall be replenished, now she is laid waste: 3 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Tyrus, and will cause many nations to come up against thee, as the sea causeth his waves to come up."]


Ezekiel 32:23 -

"Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave: all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living."


Ezekiel 32:24 -

"There is Elam and all her multitude round about her grave, all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which are gone down uncircumcised into the nether parts of the earth, which caused their terror in the land of the living; yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the pit."


Ezekiel 32:25 -

"They have set her a bed in the midst of the slain with all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword: though their terror was caused in the land of the living, yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the pit: he is put in the midst of them that be slain."


Ezekiel 32:26 -

"There is Meshech, Tubal, and all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword, though they caused their terror in the land of the living."


Ezekiel 32:27 -

"And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living."


Ezekiel 32:32 -

"For I have caused my terror in the land of the living: and he shall be laid in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that are slain with the sword, even Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord God."



[end quoting my posts]
(Hos 5:14) For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him.

Jesus didn't physical "tear" nor hurt any of the Jews while he walked on this earth. Notice that the tearing happens BEFORE he leaves - "I will tear and go away, I will TAKE AWAY".

The tearing and taking away in Hosea 5 is the tearing away and taking of the kingdom of God from the Jews. He did that at his death. 3 days later he raised up the Old Testament saints and they lived, and still do live in his sight.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Really? Jesus has already returned in power and glory? Stay tuned you ain't seen nothing yet.
Maybe he's not powerful in your life but he is in mine.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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The passage states, "IN THEIR [Israel's] AFFLICTION, they [Israel] WILL SEEK ME early..."


[which agrees with a ton of other passages... I've posted references to them, before]




The verse in bold refers to "Israel" in the "FUTURE" (not presently).
Jacob's trouble was their affliction. I mean come on, Christ died and a great earthquake crumbled buildings in Jerusalem. The sun went out during mid-day. Dead people were spit out of their graves, and three days later they stood up and walked the streets of Jerusalem. How is the time of Jacob's trouble not "their affliction"?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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The restoration happened the minute Jesus died. The kingdom was taken from the Jews and given to another nation that is fully capable of bringing in the fruits. Problem solved, the church can now come out of her closet because there's not a pack of wicked Jews trying to kill her now.

The verse in bold refers to "Israel" in the "FUTURE" (not presently).
Are you saying that the kingdom hasn't been taken from the Jews yet?
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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Jesus returned with all power and glory, with all his enemies defeated when he rose from the dead. His kingdom came and some of us are living in it right now. Others are like the Jews, they are still waiting for a physical kingdom with isn't coming. Jesus clearly said "My kingdom is not of this world".

All nations is the gentiles, they were gathered and the chosen ones were given to Christ. Those are the sheep, the goats do not belong to him.
I will "Strongly" disagree, Matthew 24:29-30 hasn't been fulfilled and is a future event.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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We do indeed lie to ourselves quite often, but lying to yourself is not changing who you are. And hiding only means you are aware of who you are but refuse to accept it.





The difference between your mind and a program that was input for a computer, is that your mind still will recall things you have tried to remove.
I hear what you're saying, I see it differently.

I believe it is well established in psychology that a person can write something and then believe that it did not come from them.

and maybe it did, maybe it didn't.

it's one theory of how Ouija boards work, for example.

but this point, we've drifted into psychology.
is there a Bible topic you want to talk about related to preterism?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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I will "Strongly" disagree, Matthew 24:29-30 hasn't been fulfilled and is a future event.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Even though just a couple of verses down Jesus said that this current generation would not pass till all those things be fulfilled?

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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Even though just a couple of verses down Jesus said that this current generation would not pass till all those things be fulfilled?

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Matthew 24:34 needs to be understood in conjunction with Luke 21:32[24] (meaning, understanding the CHRONOLOGY issues of the Olivet Discourse--The part of the Olivet Discourse covered in Matt24:4-to-end-of-chpt is ALL *far-future*... [and ALL *far-future* to "our Rapture"... the CONTEXT *here* is not referring at all to the 70ad events (which is what Lk21:12-24 ONLY is covering), nor our Rapture, but that which FOLLOWS our Rapture]).



So I think I posted about THAT in Posts #235, #238 (and earlier in the thread, I think), if I've gotten those post #s correct.
 

bojack

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Dec 16, 2019
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Even though just a couple of verses down Jesus said that this current generation would not pass till all those things be fulfilled?

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
We should all know the day and the hr if it is happened and done .. Matt 24:36 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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Matthew 24:34 needs to be understood in conjunction with Luke 21:32[24] (meaning, understanding the CHRONOLOGY issues of the Olivet Discourse--The part of the Olivet Discourse covered in Matt24:4-to-end-of-chpt is ALL *far-future*... [and ALL *future* to "our Rapture"... the CONTEXT *here* [Matt24:34] is not referring at all to the 70ad events (which is what Lk21:12-24 ONLY is covering), nor our Rapture, but that which FOLLOWS our Rapture]).
So I think I posted about THAT in Posts #235, #238 (and earlier in the thread, I think), if I've gotten those post #s correct.
Sorry, Posts #226, 228, 233, 235, and 238 (maybe more)

[corrected my post here also]
 

Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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Jesus returned with all power and glory, with all his enemies defeated when he rose from the dead. His kingdom came and some of us are living in it right now. Others are like the Jews, they are still waiting for a physical kingdom with isn't coming. Jesus clearly said "My kingdom is not of this world".

All nations is the gentiles, they were gathered and the chosen ones were given to Christ. Those are the sheep, the goats do not belong to him.
So you believe that verse already happen?

And that verse was by Jesus before He die oN the cross, so when the verse declare It not happen yet, am I correct?
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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Are you saying that the kingdom hasn't been taken from the Jews yet?
The propecies speak about David (athough he has been long dead), saying "My servant David shall be their prince forever". So what is this about Jacob? Israel? David? Serving the Lord their God? Peace and quiet for Jacob? Dwelling in the land that was given to Jacob?
These few verses alone comprehensively destroy any notions of preterism. Or amillennialism.
I can easily provide literally hundreds of similar verses. Preterism and amillennialism are heresies, and can be proven so effortlessly.

https://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/ezekiel/34/20-24

https://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/ezekiel/37/25-28
Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, cforever; and dMy servant David shall be their prince forever.

https://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/jeremiah/30/8-10
‘For it shall come to pass in that day,’
Says the Lord of hosts,
‘That I will break his yoke from your neck,
And will burst your bonds;
Foreigners shall no more enslave them.
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God,
And fDavid their king,
Whom I will graise up for them.
10 ‘Therefore hdo not fear, O My servant Jacob,’ says the Lord,
‘Nor be dismayed, O Israel;
For behold, I will save you from afar,
And your seed ifrom the land of their captivity.
Jacob shall return, have rest and be quiet,
And no one shall make him afraid.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Matthew 24:34 needs to be understood in conjunction with Luke 21:32[24] (meaning, understanding the CHRONOLOGY issues of the Olivet Discourse--The part of the Olivet Discourse covered in Matt24:4-to-end-of-chpt is ALL *far-future*... [and ALL *far-future* to "our Rapture"... the CONTEXT *here* is not referring at all to the 70ad events (which is what Lk21:12-24 ONLY is covering), nor our Rapture, but that which FOLLOWS our Rapture]).



So I think I posted about THAT in Posts #235, #238 (and earlier in the thread, I think), if I've gotten those post #s correct.
It's only future to futurist. The passages are actually clear in Matthew and Luke that the generation that saw "Summer Come" would be the last generation of the Jews being stewards of the kingdom.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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We should all know the day and the hr if it is happened and done .. Matt 24:36 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
I know Jesus rose from the dead somewhere around 2000 years ago but I can't tell you the day nor hour that it happened.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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So you believe that verse already happen?

And that verse was by Jesus before He die oN the cross, so when the verse declare It not happen yet, am I correct?
I'm sorry Jackson I'm not sure what you're asking me.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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The restoration happened the minute Jesus died.
The "restoration" of WHAT?

Surely you are not referring to the same thing that Acts 3:21 [Peter] said [and Peter SAID this quite a while AFTER the Cross happened, mind you],

"whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age."
 

TheDivineWatermark

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It's only future to futurist. The passages are actually clear in Matthew and Luke that the generation that saw "Summer Come" would be the last generation of the Jews being stewards of the kingdom.
Are you suggesting that the "144,000" (who are said to be "FIRSTFRUIT," btw) existed on the earth BEFORE the Cross?




[I would suggest you read my Posts #226, 228, 233, 235, and 238 very carefully... for they pertain to the CHRONOLOGY of the contents of the Olivet Discourse, which SEQUENCE issues you are missing]