The Adamic Problem

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Sep 9, 2018
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Who says you're even elect? According to you, you elected yourself, not God. That's not biblical election, something you loathe and deny so you made up your own version.

Amazes me people think they're Christian when they're hostile towards God, His Word, His ways.
I love God but I loathe god (II Corinthians 4:4).
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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That's great! a so-called biblical doctrine that must be defended by a man-made creed to prove that it is really from God. That's rich!
It becomes obvious to the casual observer that you didn't even bother to read it annotated abundantly with lots of scripture verses. You just ranted on hearing its name. I guess you also reject the doctrinal statements your church has, man made of course. Is that the case or do you make an exception for your church and denomination? All churches and denominations have doctrinal statements so people can understand their views on a variety of Biblical issues. So do you reject them as well. I get so tired of people making that assertion. All churches and denominations have these statements that explains the basic beliefs on various issues. But of course you accept your churches man made statements while ranting against any other man made statements. Ask your pastor to tell you how to access those man made statements defining what the basic church Biblical beliefs are on various topics.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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It becomes obvious to the casual observer that you didn't even bother to read it annotated abundantly with lots of scripture verses. You just ranted on hearing its name. I guess you also reject the doctrinal statements your church has, man made of course. Is that the case or do you make an exception for your church and denomination? All churches and denominations have doctrinal statements so people can understand their views on a variety of Biblical issues. So do you reject them as well. I get so tired of people making that assertion. All churches and denominations have these statements that explains the basic beliefs on various issues. But of course you accept your churches man made statements while ranting against any other man made statements. Ask your pastor to tell you how to access those man made statements defining what the basic church Biblical beliefs are on various topics.
No kidding! I don’t read church creeds
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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o that's great, i put a smile on your face!

yay :D



but how about you? what do you think?

if God desires all men to be saved why does omnipotent God fail to achieve this desire?
do you believe in universal salvation? i can destroy that idea in 3 seconds
Are you really asking that question with an obvious answer? He wants us to freely choose him. Not force us to choose him. Therefore he gave us free will. Gee, how can I, a Calvinist, say that.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Are you really asking that question with an obvious answer? He wants us to freely choose him. Not force us to choose him. Therefore he gave us free will. Gee, how can I, a Calvinist, say that.
where do i find in the Bible the idea that human free will is so holy not even God dares offend it?

 
Dec 28, 2016
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Are you really asking that question with an obvious answer? He wants us to freely choose him. Not force us to choose him. Therefore he gave us free will. Gee, how can I, a Calvinist, say that.
Well, you're off track with that.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Nope.

Literal interpretation of Scripture doesnt mean we think Jesus is a wooden door.
Because Jesus is not a wooden door, the text is not literal. So, its a contradiction to say that literalism allows metaphors. Its like saying that programming a robot allows free will.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Which explains why your level of biblical acumen is low and ignorance is unusually high.
That seems to be the case for those who reject any man made statements. What does their Sunday school use? What teaching aids do they use. Visual aids with video equipment is used for points in the sermon in lots of churches. Oops man made.

Methinks you go overboard on man made items. Authors make lots of books on various Biblical topics. Throw them away do you?
 
Dec 28, 2016
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That seems to be the case for those who reject any man made statements. What does their Sunday school use? What teaching aids do they use. Visual aids with video equipment is used for points in the sermon in lots of churches. Oops man made.

Methinks you go overboard on man made items. Authors make lots of books on various Biblical topics. Throw them away do you?
You just replied to the wrong person bro...
 
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
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That seems to be the case for those who reject any man made statements. What does their Sunday school use? What teaching aids do they use. Visual aids with video equipment is used for points in the sermon in lots of churches. Oops man made.

Methinks you go overboard on man made items. Authors make lots of books on various Biblical topics. Throw them away do you?
You’re welcome to visit our church and we that only the Bible is used.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Which? My statement about free will or my humor being a Calvinist and stating that? We either have free will or we are programmed robots.
You're incorrect on both accounts. No one is saved via decision, or, "free will." No one is free anyhow until in Christ; John 8:36ff.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Because Jesus is not a wooden door, the text is not literal. So, its a contradiction to say that literalism allows metaphors. Its like saying that programming a robot allows free will.
maybe i program a robot to have free will.

what then?
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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Because Jesus is not a wooden door, the text is not literal. So, its a contradiction to say that literalism allows metaphors. Its like saying that programming a robot allows free will.
I guess its time to define what that means

Literal interpretation of scripture means taking it at face-value. We cross-reference verses and compare them.

A prime example of a literal interpretation is this:

In Zechariah 14 we read:

Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

Literal interpretation of this is the PLAIN MEANING of the text, those who dont come to Jerusalem to worship the King, will not receive no rain. These are the people from the NATIONS that attacked Jerusalem, and Jesus is reigning from Jerusalem (Earlier verses..)

A spiritual interpretation you can find by looking up the commentary of that verse by John Gill (and others from that era) who INSERT all kinds of odd things to the text that arent in there, here are a few weird quotes:

"must be understood of times preceding the spiritual reign of Christ; for the rain of the Gospel will be upon all the earth in the latter day glory" <- What? rain of the gospel? This is spiritual interpretation at play, text says nothing about that, but the guy just adds it in there, literally INVENTING the word there. I could add "Banana rain" in my bible commentary, and it would be just as much a spiritual interpretation.

"of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem, to worship the King, the Lord of hosts: all of the antichristian party, that refuse to worship the Lord with his true church, according to his revealed will:"

"even upon them shall be no rain; not literally, but spiritually; and is to be understood either of the love and favour of God, comparable to rain in its original, it being owing to the will of God, and not to the merits of men, and therefore is distinguishing and sovereign; in its objects, persons very undeserving; in the manner of its communication, it tarries not for the will and works of men, and comes in great abundance; and in its effects, it softens, cools, refreshes, and makes fruitful; and not to have this is to be hated of God: or of the blessings of divine grace; these are from above like rain, depend on the will of God, are free gifts, and given in abundance, and make fruitful; the contrary to these is cursing: or of the Gospel, which is of God and from heaven, falls according to divine direction, and softens, refreshes, and revives; and not to have this is the sorest of judgments"

^ There we see a long explanation of a simple verse.

Here is Adam Clarke's equally WEIRD interpretation and MADE UP interpretation:

"Those who do not worship God shall not have his blessing; and those who do not attend Divine ordinances cannot have the graces and blessings which God usually dispenses by them. On such slothful, idle Christians, there shall be no rain!"

^Again.... The text says NOTHING of the sort. He is just imagining things, doesn't know what it means. Cant deal with the Scriptures.
All of these commentators do this thing all over the OT, its like they just cant handle it. Every CLEAR verse about Jerusalem or Israel is translated as "gospel church" in their minds. It can even mention specific locations in Israel, and its still about "gospel church" in the minds of these men.