The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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Mar 23, 2016
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all them Christ died for, tasted death for Heb 2:9, He offered Himself as a sacrifice for, for His Death, an one offering for their sins, and by this fact we shall know that it was not an offering for all men without exception
According to Hebrews 2:9, the Lord Jesus Christ tasted death for all mankind

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!



 
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In fact the Resurrection of Christ from the dead was their First Resurrection Rev 20:6

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
The resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead is not the "first resurrection" referred to in Rev 20:6.

When the Lord Jesus Christ was resurrected, He was the One and only One resurrected ... He is the firstfruits:

1 Corinthians 15:

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

...

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


the "first resurrection" referred to in Rev 20:6 is shown in Rev 20:4

Revelation 20:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

The first resurrection referred to in Rev 20:6 relates to a time yet future when those who were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads are resurrected to live and reign with the Lord Jesus Christ for a thousand years.




brightfame52 said:
All for whom Christ died and rose again, all of them by the purpose of God, did exist in Him by Purpose and Representation, even when He sat down in heavenly places as Per Eph 2:6

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

This even though they in and of themselves may not have yet been born sinners in the flesh and then afterwards been born again, none of that has to occur for them to be risen together with Christ.
"none of that" (birth and being born again) "has to occur for them to be risen together with Christ"??? :rolleyes:




brightfame52 said:
Notice that this Resurrection constitutes them Priests of God, notice 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
notice that 1 Peter 2:10 tells us that at one point they were not a people

1 Peter 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

and let's see what 1 Peter 2:6 tells us

1 Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Chief Corner Stone ... He is the Elect ... all who believe on Him ... at one point those who believe on Him were not a people but now they are a people and they have obtained mercy because he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.


so, brightfame52, your statement that "they in and of themselves may not have yet been born sinners in the flesh and then afterwards been born again, none of that has to occur for them to be risen together with Christ" is nothing but empty reasoning.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!



 
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It makes whosover believes rich . The atonement applied , righteousness imputed faith, the conduit. faith: not selection and enablement from God. The obedience of faith. Foreknowledge, sure.Some predestined to hell ?. no. You still skirt the issue. The atonement for all men was necessary to put away sin. It was not some half-baked sacrifice leaving the law unsatisfied . Christ reconciled us to the broken law first . Fufilled its demands that the transgressor be punished as representive not of the church only but Man . The creation. Man . He became Man. The Second Adam The Second Head of the Human race. Faith Thy Faith hath made thee whole not My faith had made thee whole . You know what I'm talking about Brightfame. The gospel is a message with the power of God behind it . It is the same power of Christs, Resurrection and Ascension . Faith is the prerequisite of salvation. Not some partiality on Gods part. He is the Same , Yesterday , Today and Forever. The Ministry of the Holy Spirit Three fold . Moreover brethren I declare to you the Gospel , Christ died for our sins , He was buried , and He rose from the dead the third day. I left out which I preached to you, which also you received , and in which you stand By which also you are saved , if you hold fast the word which I preached to you unless you have believed in vain. This is the message , this is what the Apostle declares to us in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 The natural man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, So God sents the power of God to salvation whereby faith comes by Hearing and Hearing by the Word of God. Not a weak message unless you get it wrong and start talking to an unbeliever in things he cannot understand because he has not received that ability visa v the new birth. I hope you grasp some of this . The Apostles "Were witnesses of His Resurrection". The gospel is the power of God to salvation. Calvin has convinced a multitude of people that God doesn't get Glory from the Gospel unless it is according to His belief that man had no ability to respond to God , even inspite of the ministry of the Holy Spirit even in spite of the Gospel in simplicity without the wisdom of words being the power of God to salvation. I hope you can grasp this . God is a God of Glory . It is Calvin that claims you don't give Him the Glory unless He does everything for you . Plain statements of scripture are ignored . Christ represented the Creation Man . There is a limited acceptance of an all inclusive atonement that covered all of mankind. His Blood is effectual for whosover believes not whosover He does everything for you. Hope you grasp this . God puts a premium on freewill. It extends to the church praying for the rebels with the weapons of our warfare and the release of the redemptive mercies of the ministry of the Holy Spirit in response to faith in God exceeding great and precious promises. God loves the lost and is not willing that any would perish but that all men would come to repentance. Not all will respond to the drawing of the Holy Spirit . Some harden their hearts and at some point God gives them over. Importunity, and perservance for those . But God is faithful to His Word and His peoples prayers.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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According to Hebrews 2:9, the Lord Jesus Christ tasted death for all mankind

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
it is clearly obvious by realizing the accomplishments and effects it gives and bestows upon them He surely died in behalf of, now understand this ye who are against Christ, all them Christ died for, tasted death for Heb 2:9, He offered Himself as a sacrifice for, for His Death, an one offering for their sins, and by this fact we shall know that it was not an offering for all men without exception, because all for whom this sacrifice was offered, are sanctified and perfected by it in God's Reckoning Heb 10:10,14,
 
Mar 23, 2016
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it is clearly obvious by realizing the accomplishments and effects it gives and bestows upon them He surely died in behalf of, now understand this ye who are against Christ, all them Christ died for, tasted death for Heb 2:9, He offered Himself as a sacrifice for, for His Death, an one offering for their sins, and by this fact we shall know that it was not an offering for all men without exception
Read the verse, brightfame52 ... and read verse 10 together with verse 9 (instead of skipping from Hebrews 2:9 to Hebrews 10) ...

Hebrews 2:

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.


In Hebrews 2:9, we see that the Lord Jesus Christ tasted death for every man (i.e. the whole world as shown in John 1:29 and John 3:16-17).

In Hebrews 2:10, we see that the Lord Jesus Christ brings many sons unto glory (i.e. those who believe ... John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned ...)



John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned



READ YOUR BIBLE!!!



 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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It makes them alive !

All for whom Christ died and rose again, they are already made alive with Him, being made alive together with Him their Head, even though they in themselves are sinners and His enemies by nature. That this is so is taught here Eph 2:6

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

The word raised here is the greek verb synegeirō:

to raise together, to cause to raise together

2) to raise up together from mortal death to a new and blessed life dedicated to God

Now this is True of all for whom Christ died for and rose again in God's Perspective !

This was also stated in the OT in type here Isa 26:19


19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Hos 6:2

2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

This speaks of those that Christ died for and arose the Third day. 1 Cor 15:3-4

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

For instance, when Saul, who is now Paul, when he was going about persecuting Believers and consenting to their death, he was already, raised up together with Christ and sitting in heavenly places with Him ! This is True of all those Christ died for while in a state of Nature. This is Grace untold, and a Truth like this cannot be received by the natural man, its foolishness to him.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Read the verse, brightfame52 ... and read verse 10 together with verse 9 (instead of skipping from Hebrews 2:9 to Hebrews 10) ...

Hebrews 2:

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.


In Hebrews 2:9, we see that the Lord Jesus Christ tasted death for every man (i.e. the whole world as shown in John 1:29 and John 3:16-17).

In Hebrews 2:10, we see that the Lord Jesus Christ brings many sons unto glory (i.e. those who believe ... John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned ...)



John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned



READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
You may as well go ahead and read post 886 and see how you respond to that truth.
 
Nov 23, 2021
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Well , gave it shot Brightfame. The church is blessed indeed by every spiritual blessing in heavenly places in Christ. We are past the second or third admonition. Your Jesus is another. Your gospel another. Talk to the hand cause the head ain't listenin.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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riverhooks said
The Second Head of the Human race
False statement, Christ is only the Head of His Body the Church. Eph 5:23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Col 1:18

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Never is Christ declared to be the head of the whole human race.
 
Nov 23, 2021
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True statement you are wrong. Adam represented all of his descendents by one man sin entered the world and death by sin. So ridiculous to deny it . Christ condescended to become the second Adam. It's in the Bible . What are you talking about dude ? Christ is God when He died all died. He became Man. Man Adam represented Man up until that point. Ergo when he died so did his descedents. Why is Christ called the second Adam? Once again, Man gave the dominion to Satan . Satan became the god of this world the Bible says Christ came to destroy him that had the power of death. To restore that dominion, Jesus represented all men . If He did not take that dominion back by force. Unless of course were He was like the God of Calvin , who forces someone against their will and forceably takes back from the devil what man gave to him . Christ as man died innocent. Satan for the first time in his history killed someone over whom he had no claim. Don't get me wrong . What you are getting wrong is Jesus . You are saved by the Gospel as I described it you are not saved by selection , enablement , irrestible grace. You had a choice . But at some point you took self righteouness to a whole new level and believed Calvin that you were chosen for glory and others chosen for destruction. I have no problem with the above scriptures what I have a problem with is your entire belief system . TULIP .
 
Mar 23, 2016
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when Saul, who is now Paul, when he was going about persecuting Believers and consenting to their death, he was already, raised up together with Christ and sitting in heavenly places with Him !
:rolleyes:

Acts 26:9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.

So you believe that when Paul was doing many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth, Paul was "sitting in heavenly places with" Christ??? that's what you believe??? :rolleyes:


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
 
Mar 23, 2016
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You may as well go ahead and read post 886 and see how you respond to that truth.
The only truth in Post #886 is:

Eph 2:6
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Isa 26:19
19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Hos 6:2
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

1 Cor 15:3-4
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


Your commentary is nothing but rambling musings devoid of truth



 
Nov 23, 2021
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It is an endless circle with Calvinists that go can on for years . They see scripture through the filter of Calvins thoughts and overlay the Bible with His reasonings , therefore it all goes From TULIP Through TULIP AND TO TULIP. I tried to get a friend to free himself from the deception . For 6 Years !! On Facebook messenger I must admit I enjoyed the opportunity to delve in scripture to refute his Calvinist belief in Limited Atonement , and Irrestible grace and all the rest of it . But came to the conclusion after exhausting myself and the scriptures that it was impossible . Kicking a dead horse. Again, and Again, and Again. Different Gospel , Different Jesus. Strong Delusion. Their Jesus sends people into all the world with a message that cannot save them because they are not selected. Never pointing to come to Jesus and have life. Always come to some scripture about Gods Sovereignty , how He must do everything for you or you are an Armeniest had to look that up to find out if that was true turned out it wasn't I was somewhere in the middle . Rather than listen to Brightfames Heady and High minded burdens he heaps on new believers , other than Come unto me all who labor and are heavy laden? Seriously it's complicated for Him because it was designed that way . It very effectually ensnares the soul. His Jesus is saying come to me all who I have selected will repent for and cannot respond anyway and I will give you irrestible grace so you can't say no to me . etc. It's crazy . I'm getting nauseous I have to stop . LOL
 
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You don't listen bright frame . Jesus is the Head of the Church. Adam represented Man. Adam fell , Man fell. Adam died his offspring died. Jesus entered the creation as representive to restore and reclaim his lost dominion. Not by force, but according to his character. In a righteous and just fashion. He fufilled the broken law, as Man representing the creation Man, as Adam did. Hello. He died innocent. Now under divine jurisprudence Satan as a condemned murderer had no claim to any "Man" or anything. I know you did not read about it your theology books but you may have to think outside of Tulip to grasp this because it is in the Bible . When Satan killed a man upon whom he had no claim he became for the first time in his existence a murderer under Divine Jurisprudence. The prince of this world was "Judged". " " Which none of the rulers of this age knew, for had they known they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory. " It was necessary for Christ to die as Representing Adam and His descendents to die a Man not just as Head of the Church. To put away sin, to judge the devil and restore Adams lost dominion according to Christs character. He didn't forcefully take back what Man gave to the devil when he gave himself and his dominion to the enemy. He doesn't roll like that . He doesn't Make someone believe on Him. Because they are one
of the few chosen ones.
 
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It very effectually ensnares the soul. His Jesus is saying come to me all who I have selected will repent for and cannot respond anyway and I will give you irrestible grace so you can't say no to me .
according to brightfame52, they don't even have to repent because if they are "elect" they are "already, raised up together with Christ and sitting in heavenly places with Him" !!!



 
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You know what the Bible says " if any man has any other gospel, let him .. .......
Yep that's taking self-righteousness to a whole new level. I suppose the Apostles were told to go out and tell those sinners to repent but they didn't have too. Personally , I don't enjoy holding forth the Word of life and someone convinced of their own irresitable election skewing the character of Christ. I've had enough. "Let God be God"
 
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God foreknew who would believe on Him. Did he lay down His life for His friends , Yes. Did He also die for all men . Yes. Do all men believe. No. Calvinist s
according to brightfame52, they don't even have to repent because if they are "elect" they are "already, raised up together with Christ and sitting in heavenly places with Him" !!!
So Paul was already saved when he was persecuting the church. Bright fame bright fame, Step back a few steps You must be born-again , that means Paul as well, You must be born of the Spirit , that means Paul as well. Explain to me this according to the scenario Paul was seated with Christ in Heavenly places without conversion without faith in Christ, and without being born again . Does not the Bible say , "He that is joined to the Lord is one spirit.". If Paul was "Joined to the Lord " by the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead. Was he being led of the Spirit to persecute the church before His Conversion and before being 'born of the Spirit ? This is how silly theology gets endless questions I am starting to sound like a theologian .
 

Friend

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Dec 7, 2021
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Atonement was so this could happen

Jesus has a mystery and says "the seven lampstands are the seven churches"
Rev 1:20 “As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches

Jesus says He "walks among the seven golden lamp stands"

Rev 2:1“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand, the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this:

Now Jesus is saying He "has the Seven Spirits of God". We see where they come from and where they go.

Rev 3:1 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: ‘I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

There is a door open in heaven and a Voice like a trumpet "Says Come Up Here"
"After These Things"


Rev 4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.

After a reception of lightning and thunder Seven Lamps of Fire appear in front of the throne; and look what it says they are. Now the lamps that were on earth are before the throne, and do you remember what Jesus said the lamps were: that's right He said they were the churches; But now they are being called the Seven Spirits of God. And it just keeps getting better.

Rev 4:5 Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God

Let's do a little review: Jesus said that the seven golden lamps on earth are the churches. Then after a voice like the sound of trumpet says come up here, and after a reception of lightning and thunder coming out from the throne: now the seven lamps are in heaven, but now they are being called the Seven Spirit of God. So you can look at the previous verse to see that it's all true. But move forward is the greatest thing we could ever see. So now we know the Seven Spirits of God are the Seven Churches.

Rev 5:6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, that were sent out into all the earth.

So there we have it. The greatest thing one could ever imagine: Right there is the Head of the
Lamb are Seven Eyes that are the Seven Spirits of God that were sent to ALL THE EARTH.
So We are on The Throne Just As Jesus Promised We would be. Therefore, We are Raptured off of the Earth and seated on Our throne, Immediately before all the Murder and Mayhem begins.

Below is the Promise.

Rev 3:21-22 ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to Him to sit down with Me on My throne, just as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Dan 7:13“I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, One like a Son of Man was coming on the clouds of heaven. And He came up to be presented before the Ancient of Days.

People ask where the Rapture is in the old Testament. It's in the Little Book/Daniel where we see many aspects of Revelations.

Rev 3:22 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.’”
 
Nov 23, 2021
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A pre-tribber, a Calvinist, and a disciple walk into a bar . Only in America !
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Blessings of Christ's Death before we believe !

For whomever Christ did die for, the following is True of them no matter what, either before and after conversion, meaning before and after they become believers !

First, its True that He indeed died for them, both in their stead as a substitute and on their behalf, or for their good 1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins[By His Death for us], should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Secondly, For all whom He died, He also arose, because of their Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for[Because of] our justification.

Many do celebrate easter , supposedly commemorating the Lords Resurrection, but very few understand the True significance of that Blessed Event, for it was the evidence that all for whom Christ was delivered for their offences, that they are now Justified before God ! Yes, even before they believe !

Thirdly, For them, He sits on the Right Hand of God !

Fourthly, He makes intercession for them, and all this is witnessed to by the Apostle here Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again[For our Justification], who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

This making Intercession, Isaiah wrote of the same Isa 53:12

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

You see that ? He made Intercession, not for the believers, but for the transgressors, those He bare their the sins, the many ! Any Transgressor Christ makes Intercession for shall be saved by His Life, shall come to God by Him Heb 7:25

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Isaiah's here by prophecy is speaking of Christ's Priestly Work for those only that He Represented, the Israel of God, and this Work Justifies them before God or accounts them as Righteous, Yes even before they believe, because its not based upon their believing, but upon Christ bearing their sins !

Notice how Isaiah under inspiration of the same Spirit as Paul, did link together, the bearing of sins, and the making of Intercession in either case this is Priestly Work done by Christ for those He died for before they believe !