The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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:rolleyes:

Acts 26:9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.

So you believe that when Paul was doing many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth, Paul was "sitting in heavenly places with" Christ??? that's what you believe??? :rolleyes:


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
when Saul, who is now Paul, when he was going about persecuting Believers and consenting to their death, he was already, raised up together with Christ and sitting in heavenly places with Him ! Paul stated he was crucified with Christ Gal 2:20

20 I am[was] crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

For this to have occurred, Paul had to be in Union with Christ when Christ was crucified.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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The only truth in Post #886 is:

Eph 2:6
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:


Isa 26:19
19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.


Hos 6:2
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.


1 Cor 15:3-4
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:



Your commentary is nothing but rambling musings devoid of truth
Do you understand the post ?
 
Nov 23, 2021
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JUST SO WE STAY ON TOPIC : HERE IS THE DEFINITION OF ATONEMENT OFFERED BY THE ONLINE KJV BIBLE DICTIONARY....
Atonement
This word does not occur in the Authorized Version of the New Testament except in Romans 5:11, where in the Revised Version the word "reconciliation" is used. In the Old Testament it is of frequent occurrence.
The meaning of the word is simply at-one-ment, i.e., the state of being at one or being reconciled, so that atonement is reconciliation. Thus it is used to denote the effect which flows from the death of Christ.
But the word is also used to denote that by which this reconciliation is brought about, viz., the death of Christ itself; and when so used it means satisfaction, and in this sense to make an atonement for one is to make satisfaction for his offences (Exodus 32:30; Leviticus 4:26; 5:16; Numbers 6:11), and, as regards the person, to reconcile, to propitiate God in his behalf.
By the atonement of Christ we generally mean his work by which he expiated our sins. But in Scripture usage the word denotes the reconciliation itself, and not the means by which it is effected. When speaking of Christ's saving work, the word "satisfaction," the word used by the theologians of the Reformation, is to be preferred to the word "atonement." Christ's satisfaction is all he did in the room and in behalf of sinners to satisfy the demands of the law and justice of God. Christ's work consisted of suffering and obedience, and these were vicarious, i.e., were not merely for our benefit, but were in our stead, as the suffering and obedience of our vicar, or substitute. Our guilt is expiated by the punishment which our vicar bore, and thus God is rendered propitious, i.e., it is now consistent with his justice to manifest his love to transgressors. Expiation has been made for sin, i.e., it is covered. The means by which it is covered is vicarious satisfaction, and the result of its being covered is atonement or reconciliation. To make atonement is to do that by virtue of which alienation ceases and reconciliation is brought about. Christ's mediatorial work and sufferings are the ground or efficient cause of reconciliation with God. They rectify the disturbed relations between God and man, taking away the obstacles interposed by sin to their fellowship and concord. The reconciliation is mutual, i.e., it is not only that of sinners toward God, but also and pre-eminently that of God toward sinners, effected by the sin-offering he himself provided, so that consistently with the other attributes of his character his love might flow forth in all its fulness of blessing to men. The primary idea presented to us in different forms throughout the Scripture is that the death of Christ is a satisfaction of infinite worth rendered to the law and justice of God (q.v.), and accepted by him in room of the very penalty man had incurred. It must also be constantly kept in mind that the atonement is not the cause but the consequence of God's love to guilty men (John 3:16; Romans 3:24, 25; Ephesians 1:7; 1 John 1:9; 4:9). The atonement may also be regarded as necessary, not in an absolute but in a relative sense, i.e., if man is to be saved, there is no other way than this which God has devised and carried out (Exodus 34:7; Joshua 24:19; Psalms 5:4; 7:11; Nahum 1:2, 6; Romans 3:5). This is God's plan, clearly revealed; and that is enough for us to know.
 
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Atonement in the New Testament
In the King James Version of the Bible, the word atonement is only used once in the New Testament – in Romans 5:11. However, most other versions have translated the word “atonement” to “reconciliation” because that is the literal interpretation of the word.
“Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.” (Romans 5:9-11)
This passage states that believers are justified and reconciled by the atonement of Christ.
The Meaning of Atonement
Adam’s (and subsequently all man’s) choice to sin made everyone guilty before God, without hope. But then, Christ stepped in, making atonement for sin. Christ, the sinless lamb, took upon Himself the sins of many, that they might receive the atonement for sins and be reconciled to God.
“For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.” (Romans 5:19).
To accept Christ’s atonement for sin is to acknowledge one’s sin and receive His sacrifice. And not only that but to live a grace-filled life of abundance. There is no more barrier between the believer and God, for they have received Christ’s atoning power and God’s satisfaction of acceptance through that atonement and thus, reconciliation. SIMPLE IS ALWAYS BETTER, REGARDS riverhooks
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Accomplished by Christ's Blood alone !

By Christ's Blood alone, all for whom He died have, even before they are born sinners, and after being born sinners but not yet believers in Christ, in fact, while they are His Enemies by nature, they all have by the Blood of Christ alone: Reconciliation, Redemption, Remission / Forgiveness of sins, Justification, and these are all in a scriptural sense the same, and the result of the Death or Blood of Christ alone.

Eph 1:7

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

To say we have Redemption through His Blood, and even the forgiveness of sins, is the same as saying we have Reconciliation or even Justification through His Blood.

Understand, to say that we were Reconciled to God by Christ,s Death, while being Enemies Rom 5:10, is no less or different in saying that we are Justified or have forgiveness of sins while being enemies, by or through His Death !
 
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Frankly , I am not interested in your theology Brightfame 52 It all leads to one place and result. It is another gospel and another Jesus. You are saved by Calvins theology. . What you don’t say in the above comment is just as convincing. Christs died for some , not others . Christ calls and enables some with an effectual atonement . Others are not enabled nor died for, therefore they are called to an ineffectual atonement. Why would Jesus send intelligent people into all the world with a selective, ineffective message toward some who were just as hostile towards Him as another while enabling others? Answer. Again. He wouldn’t . I would even say . He can’t . Just as the Bible says, “It is impossible for Him to lie”. In Him is light and there is not darkness in Him. Calvin obviously saw himself as worthy of being selected over others The Lord is not John Calvin. That is how Calvin sees God, That is how your support group of reformist theologians see God. You can reason with each other for hours and scratch each others ears because that is what you do . Meat belongs to those that are of full age. That may be part of the reason you guys don’t grow so well, you needed milk to grow but got the Rib House . Calvin gets you to look at things through his filter , his reasoning , his logic. Once that’s done It’s off to the races. Poor babes that are new in Christ and come across your rambling justifications as to how you were chosen maybe they begin to see God as you do. A respecter of persons , condemning the unbelieving hoards namely those not personally selected died for to a pre-determined lake of fire to be banished. Maybe in the moments of doubt they wonder if they are one of the “chosen”at all. And why God is sending them to manifest His mercy towards souls that cannot respond, to with the ministry of the Holy Spirit. They can’t repent , nor be converted, no be influenced nor believe nor have a choice in the matter. If they could you and your fellows would say they would be mingling “works” with their own salvation which according to Calvin must be without any response of freewill. I’m hitting the wall with you amigo. All the best . Here is the short gospel. John 5:14 He that Has the Son, has life. And He that has not the Son of God Has not life.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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It makes them alive ! 2

2 Cor 5:14-15

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Since by the Death of Christ, all for whom He did die, they are delivered from the legal and judicial guilt of all their sins, as well as from the penalty of sin, Death. In light of this, His Death secured for them the effectual workings of the Spirit in them, as well as the giving of them spiritual life from spiritual death, for this is the Blessed effects of what Christ accomplished for them.

All for whom He died have no sins charged against them because of Christ's Work, and also by it [His Work] they have been declared Just, so to them, for Christ's Work sake in their behalf, must be given Life by the Spirit, hence we have Justification to Life Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Spiritual life flows[By the Spirit] to all whom Christ's Death Justified or made Just.

This verse Rom 5:18 presents to view the Two main accomplishments and effects by the One Act of Righteousness by Jesus Christ, which denotes His Death, and these are : #1 Justification and #2 Life, which is spiritual life from the dead by the Spirit [Eph 2:5]

If Spiritual Life or quickening from the Spirit is never in this life communicated to an individual, then rest assured that Christ did not do away by His Death of their sins before God's Law and Justice, and they still have an penalty of sin to answer for !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,470
591
113
Frankly , I am not interested in your theology Brightfame 52 It all leads to one place and result. It is another gospel and another Jesus. You are saved by Calvins theology. . What you don’t say in the above comment is just as convincing. Christs died for some , not others . Christ calls and enables some with an effectual atonement . Others are not enabled nor died for, therefore they are called to an ineffectual atonement. Why would Jesus send intelligent people into all the world with a selective, ineffective message toward some who were just as hostile towards Him as another while enabling others? Answer. Again. He wouldn’t . I would even say . He can’t . Just as the Bible says, “It is impossible for Him to lie”. In Him is light and there is not darkness in Him. Calvin obviously saw himself as worthy of being selected over others The Lord is not John Calvin. That is how Calvin sees God, That is how your support group of reformist theologians see God. You can reason with each other for hours and scratch each others ears because that is what you do . Meat belongs to those that are of full age. That may be part of the reason you guys don’t grow so well, you needed milk to grow but got the Rib House . Calvin gets you to look at things through his filter , his reasoning , his logic. Once that’s done It’s off to the races. Poor babes that are new in Christ and come across your rambling justifications as to how you were chosen maybe they begin to see God as you do. A respecter of persons , condemning the unbelieving hoards namely those not personally selected died for to a pre-determined lake of fire to be banished. Maybe in the moments of doubt they wonder if they are one of the “chosen”at all. And why God is sending them to manifest His mercy towards souls that cannot respond, to with the ministry of the Holy Spirit. They can’t repent , nor be converted, no be influenced nor believe nor have a choice in the matter. If they could you and your fellows would say they would be mingling “works” with their own salvation which according to Calvin must be without any response of freewill. I’m hitting the wall with you amigo. All the best . Here is the short gospel. John 5:14 He that Has the Son, has life. And He that has not the Son of God Has not life.
Its truth you are not interested in and pawning it off as calvins theology, but see you at the judgment.
 
Dec 30, 2014
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Romans 5:12, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: . . . " KJV

Romans 5:18, "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. . . . " KJV

"All . . . means . . . All."

"All are condemned already . . . "
 
Nov 23, 2021
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Pastor once said, “ Throw a rock into a pack of dogs the dog that barks is the one got hit “. See you at the judgement Bright Fame
 
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So the ambassador for Christ says , I beseech you by the mercies of God be reconciled to Christ. If chosen , you're are already reconciled. ( So maybe he should say be reconciled anyway ) if you are and if not well you can’t I'm just telling you too. LOL .Sorry but People that skew Jesus use theology that is designed to be complicated.
 
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It makes them alive ! 2

2 Cor 5:14-15

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Since by the Death of Christ, all for whom He did die, they are delivered from the legal and judicial guilt of all their sins, as well as from the penalty of sin, Death. In light of this, His Death secured for them the effectual workings of the Spirit in them, as well as the giving of them spiritual life from spiritual death, for this is the Blessed effects of what Christ accomplished for them.

All for whom He died have no sins charged against them because of Christ's Work, and also by it [His Work] they have been declared Just, so to them, for Christ's Work sake in their behalf, must be given Life by the Spirit, hence we have Justification to Life Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Spiritual life flows[By the Spirit] to all whom Christ's Death Justified or made Just.

This verse Rom 5:18 presents to view the Two main accomplishments and effects by the One Act of Righteousness by Jesus Christ, which denotes His Death, and these are : #1 Justification and #2 Life, which is spiritual life from the dead by the Spirit [Eph 2:5]

If Spiritual Life or quickening from the Spirit is never in this life communicated to an individual, then rest assured that Christ did not do away by His Death of their sins before God's Law and Justice, and they still have an penalty of sin to answer for !
Justified by faith , Whosover Believes, Faith , not by anointing but by hearing and “Belief of the truth”. Faith is the prerequisite show me in the scriptures where faith is given to any man apart from belief of the truth. Salvation by election. ? Not a chance. Never . Didn’t . No .
 
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Reject the substitution you have judged yourself. You die in your sins. Did Christ die for you yes . Did He die for the Church. Yes. Did He lay down His life for His friends . Yes. Can anyman come to him without being drawn ? NO. Does He waste resources ? No . “I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh”. When He is come ( The Holy Spirit ) He will (reprove the world) of sin ……. O man
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Justified by faith , Whosover Believes, Faith , not by anointing but by hearing and “Belief of the truth”. Faith is the prerequisite show me in the scriptures where faith is given to any man apart from belief of the truth. Salvation by election. ? Not a chance. Never . Didn’t . No .
Rabbit trail !
 
Nov 23, 2021
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when Saul, who is now Paul, when he was going about persecuting Believers and consenting to their death, he was already, raised up together with Christ and sitting in heavenly places with Him ! Paul stated he was crucified with Christ Gal 2:20

20 I am[was] crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for m
when Saul, who is now Paul, when he was going about persecuting Believers and consenting to their death, he was already, raised up together with Christ and sitting in heavenly places with Him ! Paul stated he was crucified with Christ Gal 2:20

20 I am[was] crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

For this to have occurred, Paul had to be in Union with Christ when Christ was crucified.
 
Nov 23, 2021
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First of all priorities . That is an over -reach. You cannot compare scripture with scripture to support it . I myself as Paul was Crucified with Christ so are all sinners. By one man righteousness came into the world . The Bible says not just some sinners are crucified with Christ but Jesus literally became sin. Christ represented Man. Becoming Man to do so. When He died, Man died , When he rose , Man rose, when He ascended Man ascended , When He was enthroned Man was enthroned. He represented Man He was Man the buck stops here man. Nothing is imputed by the sacrifice yet . The soul that confesses and forsakes and believes on Him is imputed His righteouness then can now fellowship with God. Before The Blood was applied by the Holy Spirit . No. Fellowship. Not for Paul . Not for you . Not for me. Jesus bore the sins of humankind past , present and future. That is the only way He could put away sin. The only way. He could not leave sin active . He had to purge the heavenly things with better sacrifices. With something that had infinite merit His Blood representing all men. He put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Not some sin All sin. The unforgivable sin is rejecting Jesus Christ And dying in that condition. Not because of a lack of election, but because of a lack of what Paul calls the obedience of faith.
 
Nov 23, 2021
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T - Total depravity
U - Unconditional election
L - Limited atonement
I - Irresistible grace
P - Perseverance of the saint



Rabbit Trail ? Bright Fame You cannot overlay the Bible with this theology to interpret its message
Once you believe these tenets you pretty much bounce scriptures off these tenets. The Bible was designed to have these tenets bounce off it. If you want to discuss the Bible I'm good with it . But you must allow the Holy Spirit do to his thing or I'm afraid you will continue to argue until you Lords Return about how unscriptural those whose do not believe this 5 points of Calvinism are. Plain statements of scripture are bouncing off these tenets .
 
Mar 23, 2016
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when Saul, who is now Paul, when he was going about persecuting Believers and consenting to their death, he was already, raised up together with Christ and sitting in heavenly places with Him !
nope ... you have no comprehension concerning the holiness of God if you truly believe that statement.




 
Mar 23, 2016
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all for whom He died have, even before they are born sinners, and after being born sinners but not yet believers in Christ, in fact, while they are His Enemies by nature, they all have by the Blood of Christ alone: Reconciliation, Redemption, Remission / Forgiveness of sins, Justification
:rolleyes:

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.



READ YOUR BIBLE!!!


 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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His Death actually saves them He died for !

1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

And believers may testify to this because believing is but an evidence of healing or of being saved.

Scripture is plain here that Salvation comes through Christ's death, or stripes or wounds.

The word heal here in 1 Peter 2:24 is the greek word iaomai and means to:

to cure, heal

2) to make whole

a) to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation

The healing here is not physical but of spiritual disease and because its the Lord, its a supernatural healing.

In Isa 53:5 the word literally means that healing has come to us, its like what Paul says Rom 5:18, so spiritual healing is the free gift that comes to all whom Christ died !

That healing means Salvation is implied here Jer 17:14

14 Heal me, O Lord, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise.

Also Christ's Death, Stripes or Wounds, for all those whose sins He bare 1 Pet 2:24

"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree"

His stripes shall heal their deadly wound of spiritual death brought upon them by sin Rev 13:3

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

The principle being here that something that was considered dead, as all for whom Christ died are by nature Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ[Healed], (by grace ye are saved or healed)

Yes, Healing experimentally comes by quickening.

Ecclesiastes 3:3

3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

Here healing appears to be the reversal of killing or putting to death !

But by Christ's Death / Stripes those He died for are healed by sins death wound, for the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is healing from death !

Notice 1 Peter 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

The healing causes us to be able to Live unto Righteousness, for that was the end and purpose of the stripes, to produce fruit that would live unto God or unto Righteousness , which is to live by Faith, for it is written, the Just [or Righteous] shall live by Faith; So if any of us truly live by Faith, we have Christ's Stripes or Death to Thank for that, for a Life of Faith is by Him as that Gift of God Eph 2:8-9

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: His Death or Stripes is the Gift of God !

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Also this is a serious indictment against all who deny that Christ's Death alone, in and of itself, is what saved those He died for !