The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[brightfame52]

your complete and utter failure to acknowledge the truth revealed in Post 1714 is a prime example of "Another instance of unbelief" on your part.


1 Peter 3:18 states that the Lord Jesus Christ brings the born again one to God:

1 Peter 3:16-18 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit

vs 16 - those who have a good conscience and a good manner of life in Christ are those who are born again.

vs 17 - those who suffer for well doing are born again believers ...

vs 18 - those who are brought to God are the born again ones who have a good conscience, a good manner of life in Christ, and who suffer for well doing in the midst of the foolishness of this present evil time.



Hebrews 2:

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

vs 9 states that the Lord Jesus Christ tasted death for every man ... all mankind ... all descendants of Adam.

vs 10 states that the Lord Jesus Christ brings many sons unto glory ... if they're sons, they're already believers ... so, again, you make the same error as in your rendering of 1 Peter 3:18.
.

Again, more unbelief in the efficasiousness of the death of Christ. His death converts to God, like His Type, Christ says sinners are converted unto thee Ps 51:13


Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

The word converted is the hebrew šûḇ :

to return, turn back

1. (Qal)
   1. to turn back, return
      1. to turn back
      2. to return, come or go back
      3. to return unto, go back, come back
      4. of dying
      5. of human relations (fig)
      6. of spiritual relations (fig)
         1. to turn back (from God), apostatise
         2. to turn away (of God)
         3. to turn back (to God), repent

Also Jesus death is said to return those He died for to God 1 Pet 2:24-25


24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

That word returned is in the passive voice and its the word epistrephō :

ansitively

1. to turn to
   1. to the worship of the true God
2. to cause to return, to bring back
   1. to the love and obedience of God

This complements 1 Pet 3:18 on the efficasiousness of the converting death of Christ, which you in unbelief deny !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Ps 51:13

Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

The word converted is the hebrew šûḇ :

to return, turn back

... if they "re-turn", then they were believers before they took a "turn".

You do know that believers are not perfect in this lifetime ... that believers sin, even though they love God? ... you do know this, yes???

1 Pet 2:24-25

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

1 Peter 2:24 speaks of believers ... those who are already converted (born again) ... as only believers are dead to sin and can live unto righteousness.

1 Peter 2:25 speaks of believers ... is it your claim that God refers to unbelievers as "sheep" ???

This complements 1 Pet 3:18 on the efficasiousness of the converting death of Christ

1 Peter 3:18 says nothing about "converting" unbelievers. 1 Peter 3:18 tells us that the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ brings the believer to God.

Are you claiming that those who are unbelievers:

1 Peter 3:16 – have a good conscience and a good conversation [lifestyle] in Christ ???

1 Peter 3:17 – suffer for well doing ???

1 Peter 3:18 – have any standing whatsoever before the throne of God in the heavenly Holy of Holies ???

1 Peter 2:24 – are dead to sin and live unto righteousness ???

1 Peter 2:25 – are referred to as "sheep" in God's Word ???

Is that what you believe ???


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

 

[brightfame52]

... if they "re-turn", then they were believers before they took a "turn".

You do know that believers are not perfect in this lifetime ... that believers sin, even though they love God? ... you do know this, yes???





1 Peter 2:24 speaks of believers ... those who are already converted (born again) ... as only believers are dead to sin and can live unto righteousness.

1 Peter 2:25 speaks of believers ... is it your claim that God refers to unbelievers as "sheep" ???





1 Peter 3:18 says nothing about "converting" unbelievers. 1 Peter 3:18 tells us that the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ brings the believer to God.

Are you claiming that those who are unbelievers:

1 Peter 3:16 – have a good conscience and a good conversation [lifestyle] in Christ ???

1 Peter 3:17 – suffer for well doing ???

1 Peter 3:18 – have any standing whatsoever before the throne of God in the heavenly Holy of Holies ???

1 Peter 2:24 – are dead to sin and live unto righteousness ???

1 Peter 2:25 – are referred to as "sheep" in God's Word ???

Is that what you believe ???


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

More denial of the saving, converting power of the Blood of the Son of God, what unbelief !

 

[Zadiliel]

Rom 5:11

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

The Atonement of Christ has reconciled the elect world to God. It secured and ensured for it [ the elect world] every spiritual blessing needed to live unto God and for His Glory through Jesus christ.

Even before the elect are born into this world as sinners, they have already [by the blood of Christ] been reconciled to God, it will now be a matter of time for it to be manifested.

The atonement accomplished the complete salvation for all whom it was offered for, that is the death of christ. It provides them Faith, repentance, sanctification, redemption, and every needful spiritual blessing to convert them to God, and remain secured forever.

That is Paul Stuff, the one Jesus Said I will send Another to Explain.
Jesus did not say I will send another to Explain.

Actually Jesus Said I will send the Holy Spirit, to YOu,
Not Paul.

 

[brightfame52]

That is Paul Stuff, the one Jesus Said I will send Another to Explain.
Jesus did not say I will send another to Explain.

Actually Jesus Said I will send the Holy Spirit, to YOu,
Not Paul.

I see already you dont believe the scriptures.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

More denial of the saving, converting power of the Blood of the Son of God

1 Peter 3:18 speaks of those who are already converted (born again).


... and very interesting that you won't answer the questions:

Are you claiming that those who are unbelievers:

1 Peter 3:16 – have a good conscience and a good conversation [lifestyle] in Christ ???

1 Peter 3:17 – suffer for well doing ???

1 Peter 3:18 – have any standing whatsoever before the throne of God in the heavenly Holy of Holies ???

1 Peter 2:24 – are dead to sin and live unto righteousness ???

1 Peter 2:25 – are referred to as "sheep" in God's Word ???

Is that what you believe ???


1 Peter 3:16-18 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit


1 Peter 2:24-25 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
.

 

[brightfame52]

1 Peter 3:18 speaks of those who are already converted (born again).


... and very interesting that you won't answer the questions:

Are you claiming that those who are unbelievers:

1 Peter 3:16 – have a good conscience and a good conversation [lifestyle] in Christ ???

1 Peter 3:17 – suffer for well doing ???

1 Peter 3:18 – have any standing whatsoever before the throne of God in the heavenly Holy of Holies ???

1 Peter 2:24 – are dead to sin and live unto righteousness ???

1 Peter 2:25 – are referred to as "sheep" in God's Word ???

Is that what you believe ???


1 Peter 3:16-18 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit


1 Peter 2:24-25 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
.

You deny the saving death of Christ, that's unbelief.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You deny the saving death of Christ, that's unbelief.

... still won't answer ...

Do you believe that those who are unbelievers:

1 Peter 3:16 – have a good conscience and a good conversation [lifestyle] in Christ ???

1 Peter 3:17 – suffer for well doing ???

1 Peter 3:18 – have any standing whatsoever before the throne of God in the heavenly Holy of Holies ???

1 Peter 2:24 – are dead to sin and live unto righteousness ???

1 Peter 2:25 – are referred to as "sheep" in God's Word ???

Why will you not answer these questions ???


1 Peter 3:16-18 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit


1 Peter 2:24-25 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
.

 

[brightfame52]

... still won't answer ...

Do you believe that those who are unbelievers:

1 Peter 3:16 – have a good conscience and a good conversation [lifestyle] in Christ ???

1 Peter 3:17 – suffer for well doing ???

1 Peter 3:18 – have any standing whatsoever before the throne of God in the heavenly Holy of Holies ???

1 Peter 2:24 – are dead to sin and live unto righteousness ???

1 Peter 2:25 – are referred to as "sheep" in God's Word ???

Why will you not answer these questions ???


1 Peter 3:16-18 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit


1 Peter 2:24-25 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
.

The people Christ died for, His death for them is the catalyst of bringing them to God 1 Pet 3:18 or causing, effecting their conversion to God, yet you deny it, that's unbelief !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The people Christ died for, His death for them is the catalyst of bringing them to God 1 Pet 3:18 or causing, effecting their conversion to God, yet you deny it, that's unbelief !

... still won't answer ...

Do you believe that those who are unbelievers:

1 Peter 3:16 – have a good conscience and a good conversation [lifestyle] in Christ ???

1 Peter 3:17 – suffer for well doing ???

1 Peter 3:18 – have any standing whatsoever before the throne of God in the heavenly Holy of Holies ???

1 Peter 2:24 – are dead to sin and live unto righteousness ???

1 Peter 2:25 – are referred to as "sheep" in God's Word ???

Why will you not answer these questions ???


1 Peter 3:16-18 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit


1 Peter 2:24-25 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.


It is clear from 1 Peter 3:16-17 that those who are brought to God in 1 Peter 3:18 are not unbelievers in need of conversion. Vs 18 speaks of those who have already been converted ... they are born again believers.

It is also clear from 1 Peter 3:18-22 that it is the resurrected and ascended Lord Jesus Christ Who brings us to God:

1 Peter 3:

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit [resurrected]

...

22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God [ascended]; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
.

 

[brightfame52]

Made us dead to the Law ! 7

Now in light of the pre-existing union, a union all must have had with Him, if indeed He did die for them, for their sins, He accepted upon Himself the wages of their sins, which was death Rom 6:23, their debt of sin has been paid in full, He paid the debt in total for all of the Old man they are from the cradle to the grave Rom 6:6

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

That Old Man covers all what they are by nature, children of wrath Eph 2:3 and as a result they are freed or Justified from sin, which is but another way of saying they were dead to the Law by the Body of Christ, Lets look at Rom 6:7

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

He that is dead here means, he that was crucified with Christ, or died with Christ, that person, whomsoever they may be, is freed from sin.

That word freed is the greek word dikaioó:

I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.

So he that died with Christ, he that is dead, is acquitted, justified from sin, and regarded as righteous ! See Rom 5:19 also !

So to be dead to the Law by the Body of Christ, means equally to be made righteous, justified, and acquitted before they believe a thing, even before they know anything about it, for its a mystery to them. Its even true of them before they are born into that sin nature whereby they become by nature children of wrath like others Eph 2:3, for that is nothing but that old man which had been already crucified with Christ Rom 6:6 ! 35

 

[reneweddaybyday]

the pre-existing union, a union all must have had with Him, if indeed He did die for them

The Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind ... all descendants of Adam:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

to be dead to the Law by the Body of Christ, means equally to be made righteous, justified, and acquitted before they believe a thing, even before they know anything about it, for its a mystery to them. Its even true of them before they are born into that sin nature whereby they become by nature children of wrath like others

... false statement.

God tells us when a person is "made righteous, justified":

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

 

[brightfame52]

The Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind ... all descendants of Adam:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.





... false statement.

God tells us when a person is "made righteous, justified":

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

More unbelief !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

More unbelief !

... just more of your ad hominem attack because the light of Scripture reveals the error of your dogma.

Address the points made, brightfame52 ... God imputes righteousness the moment a person believes ... not in eternity past as you erroneously claim.

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


Your dogma fails when the light of Scripture shines on it.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

 

[brightfame52]

Made us dead to the Law ! 8

Now how is it that all for whom Christ died, are by that, made dead to the Law Rom 7:4 ? Lets remember as well Rom 6:7

For he that is dead[died in and with Christ] is freed from sin.

They are freed from sin, made Righteous, how can they be made Righteous at the same time that they are freed from sin, and dead to the Law ?

Its because all for whom Christ died, as they had their sins charged to Him [so He could die for them], yet at the same time, they had His Righteousness charged to them or to their account [as a free Gift], its called the Gift of Righteousness Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

The word Gift here dórea:

a (free) gift, a gift (without repayment).

dōreá (a feminine noun, derived from 1325 /dídōmi) – a gift, freely given and hence not acquired by merit or "entitlement." 1431 /dōreá (a feminine noun) expresses a brand of giving that highlights the beneficent desire of the giver.

Notice that its a Gift freely given, not a offer made as religionist would have us to believe, the Gift of Righteousness is simply donated or bestowed to their persons, their account, much in the same way that their sins had been laid upon Christ's charge, they were caused to meet upon Him, So the Gift of Righteousness is in turned caused to meet upon their account,

Its sorta like a exchange as indicated here 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

That scripture states it all ! Again it cannot be overstated , this exchange / transaction occurred before they believed, even before they're born, in fact its true so much that all for whom Christ died are as sinners, as children of wrath as others Eph 2:3 they are born acquitted already, and declared righteous before God. You see it had nothing to do with their repentance, though they shall repent, had nothing to do with their believing, though they shall believe, nothing to do with their calling upon the name of the Lord, even though they shall, but these things they shall do because of what has already been done for them, because they had already by the Body of Christ, His death, been made dead to the Law, dead to sin, acquitted and made Righteous, and God finally reveals to them by the Gospel the Mystery of His Will concerning them Eph 1:9

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

John Gill writes of this verse :

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will,.... The Gospel, which is a mystery, a hidden mystery, the mystery of God and of Christ, and the mystery of the Gospel; the several doctrines of it are called the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven; such as are concerning the trinity of persons in the Godhead, the union of the two natures in Christ, his sonship and incarnation, the saints' union and communion with him, the work of the Spirit of God upon the soul, the calling of the Gentiles, and the conversion of the Jews, the resurrection of the dead, and the change of living saints: and the Gospel is the mystery of the will of God; of his will in saving sinners by Christ; and it declares that he does all things in salvation, according to his sovereign will and pleasure; chooses, redeems, justifies, pardons, and calls whom he pleases; and this is made known by the ministry of the word, and by the Spirit, as a spirit of wisdom and revelation, in the knowledge of Christ and his Gospel: the discovery of which is,
according to his good pleasure, which he hath purposed in himself; both with respect to the persons to whom it is made known, and with respect to the time when he makes it known; both these are as he pleases, and as he has purposed in his own breast; the Gospel is sent when and where he has determined within himself it shall go; and persons are called by it according to his purpose and grace.​

God by the Gospel, to those Christ died, makes Known to them what benefits they have charged to their account because of Christ's Death for them, otherwise it would have remained a Mystery !

1 Cor 2:7,10

But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 35

 

[brightfame52]

... just more of your ad hominem attack because the light of Scripture reveals the error of your dogma.

Address the points made, brightfame52 ... God imputes righteousness the moment a person believes ... not in eternity past as you erroneously claim.

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


Your dogma fails when the light of Scripture shines on it.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

More unbelief !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

all for whom Christ died, are by that, made dead to the Law

The Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

please note ... the words they which receive are translated from the Greek word lambanó, which means:

​

2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983/lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.​

HELPS Word-studies​

s religionist would have us to believe, the Gift of Righteousness is simply donated or bestowed to their persons, their account

again, brightfame52 ... the words they which receive are translated from the Greek word lambanó, which means:

​

2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983/lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.​

HELPS Word-studies​

2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

That scripture states it all ! Again it cannot be overstated , this exchange / transaction occurred before they believed, even before they're born

The only part of the transaction that occurred "before they believed, even before they're born" is what occurred in eternity past ... before God formed, made, created mankind. God knew Adam would sin, so God devised a plan whereby mankind could be reconciled to Him. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world ... before Adam and Eve sinned.

Now let's read 2 Corinthians 5:21 in light of what is written in vss 19-20 ...

2 Corinthians 5:

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

The word "reconciling" in vs 19 and the word "reconciled" in vs 20 are translated from the Greek word katallassō which means decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.

And please note ... in vs 21, that we might be made ... the words "might be made" are in the present tense ... meaning this is something which occurs in this lifetime ... not in eternity past as you imply.

Reconciliation on the part of God to mankind took place before the foundation of the world.

Reconciliation on the part of man takes place at the time a person turns to God in faith ... at that point they are "reconciled" to God.

Those who reject God even as He reaches out to them are not reconciled to God ... not because God has not made provision for them, but because they reject that which God has provided for them to be reconciled to God.

Those who turn to God in faith are the ones who are reconciled to God.

they are born acquitted already, and declared righteous before God.

nope ... all descendants of Adam are born dead in trespasses and sins ... just as Scripture tells us and Scripture tells us when God imputes righteousness to mankind:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

1 Cor 2:7,10

But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

... newsflash for ya, brightfame52 ... your erroneous dogma is not the mystery ... the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory.

and until you quit manipulating Scripture in your futile attempt to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma, you will never understand the the mystery spoken of in 1 Cor 2:7,10.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

 

[brightfame52]

The Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.





please note ... the words they which receive are translated from the Greek word lambanó, which means:

​

2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983/lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.​

HELPS Word-studies​

again, brightfame52 ... the words they which receive are translated from the Greek word lambanó, which means:

​

2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983/lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.​

HELPS Word-studies​

The only part of the transaction that occurred "before they believed, even before they're born" is what occurred in eternity past ... before God formed, made, created mankind. God knew Adam would sin, so God devised a plan whereby mankind could be reconciled to Him. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world ... before Adam and Eve sinned.

Now let's read 2 Corinthians 5:21 in light of what is written in vss 19-20 ...

2 Corinthians 5:

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

The word "reconciling" in vs 19 and the word "reconciled" in vs 20 are translated from the Greek word katallassō which means decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.

And please note ... in vs 21, that we might be made ... the words "might be made" are in the present tense ... meaning this is something which occurs in this lifetime ... not in eternity past as you imply.

Reconciliation on the part of God to mankind took place before the foundation of the world.

Reconciliation on the part of man takes place at the time a person turns to God in faith ... at that point they are "reconciled" to God.

Those who reject God even as He reaches out to them are not reconciled to God ... not because God has not made provision for them, but because they reject that which God has provided for them to be reconciled to God.

Those who turn to God in faith are the ones who are reconciled to God.







nope ... all descendants of Adam are born dead in trespasses and sins ... just as Scripture tells us and Scripture tells us when God imputes righteousness to mankind:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ





... newsflash for ya, brightfame52 ... your erroneous dogma is not the mystery ... the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory.

and until you quit manipulating Scripture in your futile attempt to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma, you will never understand the the mystery spoken of in 1 Cor 2:7,10.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

More unbelief !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

More unbelief !

... nope ... your Post 1735 has been refuted

Post 1737 refutes your Post 1735 and you have no meaningful response to the points made.

Your inability to respond meaningfully to Post 1737 reveals the inadequacy of your erroneous dogma to withstand the scrutiny of Scripture.


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
.

 

[brightfame52]

... nope ... your Post 1735 has been refuted

Post 1737 refutes your Post 1735 and you have no meaningful response to the points made.

Your inability to respond meaningfully to Post 1737 reveals the inadequacy of your erroneous dogma to withstand the scrutiny of Scripture.


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
.

You oppose Gospel Truth so its unbelief !