THE BIBLE IS REALLY THE OLD TESTAMENT. THE NEW TESTAMENT IS NOT THE BIBLE

[nathan3]

of course all scripture is needed. that ship has already sailed. the topic does not mean exactly what it says. we have gone into further details in the thread. am assuming you just saw the topic and posted without reading the posts @ nathan. i have clarified the meaning of the topic in subsequent posts

Reading the post so far did not clear it up for me. Everything you needed to say, that bulk of it should have been made in a concise statement of a few paragraphs at least, and not spread throughout the Thread.


It looks that, your trying to defend something, that is written, but while your doing it, your neglecting other things written. And some of the people are doing the same thing while trying to counter your points.

It's all lacking in one area or another on both sides. There should not be sides, it should be scripture .
And there is a hurriedly pace to the post, nothing is being really critically explained, and clarified, but its just ministering more questions then clearing anything up.

I mean the thread should not have even been started, because no one is familiar enough on Both side, to adequately explain what is written in the Bible.

 

[OBADIAH777]

Reading the post so far did not clear it up for me. Everything you needed to say, that bulk of it should have been made in a concise statement of a few paragraphs at least, and not spread throughout the Thread.


It looks that, your trying to defend something, that is written, but while your doing it, your neglecting other things written. And some of the people are doing the same thing while trying to counter your points.

It's all lacking in one area or another on both sides. There should not be sides, it should be scripture .
And there is a hurriedly pace to the post, nothing is being really critically explained, and clarified, but its just ministering more questions then clearing anything up.

I mean the thread should not have even been started, because no one is familiar enough on Both side, to adequately explain what is written in the Bible.

i take it you have not ran across this verse in the bible then >>> proverbs 25 vs 9 Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself; and discover not a secret to another: <<< scripture says it is ok to break bread and debate our cause with each other but you say we should not have opened this thread in the first place. i pick what the scripture says

 

[nathan3]

i take it you have not ran across this verse in the bible then >>> proverbs 25 vs 9 Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself; and discover not a secret to another: <<< scripture says it is ok to break bread and debate our cause with each other but you say we should not have opened this thread in the first place. i pick what the scripture says

1 Timothy 1:4
Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies ( wrong genealogies ), which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

I don't see anythings close to edifying in this thread.


2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


I think we should take on more a attitude of studying rather then debate.. If your going to debate something, then we're going to need to be very stable with what is written, and be able to document what we say beyond a shadow of a doubt .

But most of the post here looks more like :

No, its this way.. No its that way.. No its this way... No its that way.. With no coherent scriptural documentation ..

I'm not even going to comment on any of this because I know I cant document from the Bible what I say about this topic. But I'm smart enough to recognize when people don't know something either.

 

[OBADIAH777]

1 Timothy 1:4
Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies ( wrong genealogies ), which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

I don't see anythings close to edifying in this thread.


2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


I think we should take on more a attitude of studying rather then debate.

i would hope that you know that genealogies means family tree. like having a heated conversation about the contents of the book of chronicles. we are hardly doing that here.

 

[nathan3]

i would hope that you know that genealogies means family tree. like having a heated conversation about the contents of the book of chronicles. we are hardly doing that here.

Endless fables, means "wrong" in this context. ( this not just cover actual genealogies, but endless fables ( lies, and confusion ).
this is what I mean. There is only confusion in these threads., Unless some one actually knows what they are talking about, which are far and few in between .

 

[OBADIAH777]

Endless, means wrong in this context. this is what I mean. There is only confusion in these threads., Unless some one actually knows what they are talking about, which are far and few in between .

you are wrong. endless genealogies means irrelevant never ending family tree. and if this thread is not to your edification you dont have to stay in it right ? i am sure there are many threads to your edification on the frontpage nathan

 

[nathan3]

you are wrong. endless genealogies means irrelevant never ending family tree. and if this thread is not to your edification you dont have to stay in it right ? i am sure there are many threads to your edification on the frontpage nathan

Your stuck on the Word genealogies .Its being used to illustrate a important point, when you take into account the entire verses there.

Look I see I'm a babe still learning, but seeing that, I'm taking inventory of myself realizing I need to study, before I cause a mess . Like you, and the others are doing in this thread.

Hebrews 5:12-13

King James Version (KJV)

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.



But carry on , if you feel so inclined to do.

 

[OBADIAH777]

Your stuck on the Word genealogies .Its being used to illustrate a important point, when you take into account the entire verses there.

Look I see I'm a babe still learning, but seeing that, I'm taking inventory of myself realizing I need to study, before I cause a mess . Like you, and the others are doing in this thread.

Hebrews 5:12-13

King James Version (KJV)

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

and i repeat, endless genealogies is endless debates about family tree. scripture says a wise man would be more concerned with prophesies. basically the lord telling you to focus more on prophesies instead of genealogies.

 

[Reformedjason]

you are part of the 144,000 ?. i strongly doubt that.

The 144000 are people that come to Christ after the tribulation starts. Not the elect. The elect are believers and all believers. We are elected to salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

listen you can continue to follow this doctrine that was circulated around the world when the word was sealed ( daniel 12 vs 4 ) and man was trying to make sense of the word, or you can follow the doctrine revealed to man by the holy spirit now that the words have been unsealed ( revelation 22 vs 10 ). the choice is now yours.

No the choice is yours.

you can follow the schoolmaster (the law) which leads to christ like it lead me and everyone else like me

or you can follow the law and your heritage. and be far from Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

zone can you help us breakdown these verses

acts 5 vs 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

1. The audience was Israel.
2. THE OT Prophesied the way of God would be given FIRST to Isreal (which was being done in acts) then to the REST OF THE WORLD. this was no secret. The OT said it would happen.
3. The very Israel you are claiming here REJECTED the word (christ) which is why AD 70 happened, and it was taken away from israel. Because in unbelief, they hid the truth of God in their hearts. to them it was all about blood and ritual.

 

[RedTent]

Reading the post so far did not clear it up for me. Everything you needed to say, that bulk of it should have been made in a concise statement of a few paragraphs at least, and not spread throughout the Thread.


It looks that, your trying to defend something, that is written, but while your doing it, your neglecting other things written. And some of the people are doing the same thing while trying to counter your points.

It's all lacking in one area or another on both sides. There should not be sides, it should be scripture .
And there is a hurriedly pace to the post, nothing is being really critically explained, and clarified, but its just ministering more questions then clearing anything up.

I mean the thread should not have even been started, because no one is familiar enough on Both side, to adequately explain what is written in the Bible.

It is a side issue, but such good points you are bringing up. All are trying to show what God is saying, and it must be from scripture. Lots of posters are basing what they think God tells them on a shallow reading of scripture that ignores taking into account all God says about something. Especially by people who know God only through the NT, without any OT explanations. You are saying the remedy is to copy and paste scripture. I make it a rule not to do this, if they are Christians they have read their bible and they have one to read. We can't do their study of the entire bible for them. I find it very difficult to post to these shallow Christians, besides that we all see darkly and have a lack in understanding. We all need more bible study.

 

[Elizabeth619]

as stated earlier in the thread i do not belong to any groups or organizations or faith. i read the bible by myself at home and fellowship with other believers online. if anyone has the same doctrine that i have, then that simply means they are reading the same bible that i am, the KJV that is lol. not because i belong to any church. i have not stepped in any church in over 5 years. thanks for the kind words though. and you say you ban people whose doctrines differ from the forums ? would that not negate the point of this medium being a place for people with different religious beliefs to break bread ? would you rather not hear diverse opinions ? personally i thinlk that makes for a more exciting forum. but hey thats just my opinion.

I have nothing against hearing diverse views. I actually encourage it as long as it is respectful. Unfortunately they turn in to insult wars alot of the time. To me, diverse conversations is one way I learn.

Before I came to Christian Chat I had the mentality that I was 100% RIGHT. That was instilled in me from childhood, and that is what I honestly believed. Well, you know that saying. "He who knows everything learns nothing."? I got humbled REAL quick.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have nothing against hearing diverse views. I actually encourage it as long as it is respectful. Unfortunately they turn in to insult wars alot of the time. To me, diverse conversations is one way I learn.

Before I came to Christian Chat I had the mentality that I was 100% RIGHT. That was instilled in me from childhood, and that is what I honestly believed. Well, you know that saying. "He who knows everything learns nothing."? I got humbled REAL quick.

Thats one good thing about this place. yuo hear all the views you were told were so evil, and fine out different.. It has been a blessing thats for sure

 

[fredjames]

Peace be with you, beloved one of CHRIST, for it is written according to the New Covenant, the Law of the HOLY SPIRIT of life (Romans 8;2). Please note the big 'S' (HOLY SPIRIT), and continue to read (verse 3-11) under the guidance of the HOLY SPIRIT, the anointing placed in you (1 John 2;26,27) what a Christian should work on?
LORD JESUS CHRIST Himself said this in the Gospel of John; "It is the Spirit who gives life, the flesh is of no avail. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe............." And HE said; "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the FATHER" (John 6;63-65).

Also one can judge for yourself what powers Moses had from Exodus to Deuteronomy, the powers of the Living GOD who have chosen him, as also the Old Covenant builder, providing in the tablets of stones, after he had led the congregation of Israel out of Egypt and from their enemies spiritually and physically.
Concordance of men can help you a little but the HOLY SPIRIT the Anointing in you can help you into the full truth, according to all that has been written to understand as sound doctrine.
No one is at fault here, there is for now room for forgiveness, understand clearly and excel in the New Covenant.
Not disregarding the Old which is also Spiritual but weak to fleshly men, but LORD JESUS CHRIST the spirit man have fulfilled them for us Christians who believe in HIM and also gave it's full meaning in the New, how to excel, practicing to the things of the SPIRIT, given from HIS mouth to complete the New Covenant also by HIS chosen ones too.
Judge for yourself who's Words must we abide as Christians? Have we practiced them to call ourselves faithful to HIS Word?

 

[zone]

why am i still here ? do you run like a gestapo camp on this site ? anyone who does not follow what we teach is gotten rid off ? lets all act like mature civil adults. i can see you are over 50 years old and i would hope you are wise enough to know we can differ but still be civil right ? you dont like what i am saying you there are other threads to peruse right ? we all have voluntary participation in which threads we like right ?

dude get real.
hit restart.

i dunno where you got your fake gospel or whatever it is....a tract of some kind?

question #1:

is salvation by race?

 

[RedTent]

No the choice is yours.

you can follow the schoolmaster (the law) which leads to christ like it lead me and everyone else like me

or you can follow the law and your heritage. and be far from Christ.

These arguments don't hold up to the entire story scripture gives us, not on either side. If we follow and study every law, including the 613 laws given in the OT we see, through the physical laws to the spiritual being of God. God told us not to look at the letter of the law, or look at law without seeing the love and intent behind each one, but to see God in each law. And we are to follow God.

The genealogy given is a census of the Hebrews taken so they could prepare for war. It gives the heads of each tribe, and the family units, or clans, within that tribe. Only the men 20 years old and older were counted. We are to learn from that such as how many Hebrews were freed from Egypt. We don't know if the many other races that were accepted in that exodus were included, and without the women and children counted we can guess how many people God was training in His ways. The tribe of Levi, assigned to the temple, is not listed. So we are to look for God principles as we study this genealogy.


We are even to follow the sacrificial system to Christ. How would you like to raise a bull in your back yard, and then take it to the altar for sacrifice? Doesn't that explain to you about what Christ did for us? We are to learn from the OT, but it takes Christ to complete it.

 

[zone]

you dont have to come back to this thread if it upsets you zone. lol

nah...i'm good to go.

question #2:

were you in Palestine 2000 years ago?

[hint - if you were, Jesus found you - for He was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel...He found them. they were not lost geographically]

 

[Hoffco]

Good morning from Davao City, It is good to be with you once again. I mean that sincerely. This group has matured a lot of us, some need to mature more; but over all ,it has been good. I had a bad experience with a "christian" chat rm. yrs ago, I was thrown off for my faith. It was a fundamental click that hated biblical "Calvinism" and Biblical salvation. I am very thankful that this rm. has lasted so long and has, had God's grace to put up with so much"garbage",as I would label it, sorry , but this is what a debate , discussion is to be. A gracious learning, loving one another enough to put up with the "----" to get to the TRUTH of God's word. And I have to say, the "garbage" is not all from one side. And I would admonish some ,what are you "saying" with your picture, I darn not say what I am thinking, lest I offend and get thrown out. I will, just accept them, as a joke or jest on your part.LOL. laughter is good medicine. The more we quote the Bible the better we are! All of us quote, but some don't learn, because we take it out of context, or use an inadequate version,KJV, not good scholarship and not good manuscript evidence, The NKJV (Bible) NKJB and the NASB are better. Still many people don't dig deep enough to get to the TRUTH. OBADIAH, you don't accept the N.T. and so you twist it, but you quote it, only to your liking.??? Zone, You play God, as do so many fundamentals, with their miss quotes, I may be wrong, but, I think you are "Reformed", something. Although, I hate the carnal christianity of Dallas Theo Sem. Charles Rylre ? said this, "call yourselves Biblical theologians". I myself am part of all groups. I am electric , I see truth where ever it comes from. and ,OBADIAH I was part of elect of God, from before the foundations of the world,earth. 2thess 2:13 ".. God chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth," God has chosen "Sheep" all over the earth. No mater what anyone would say, "God said it , that settles it" I will check in , later. God bless you all. Hoffco

 

[RedTent]

Obadiah, I had never thought about that the OT was written first, it did not have the NT as a base. It is the base. Thank you.

But I think you are wrong about such as Abraham. You feel he never lived as a man. I think it is important that we recognize the mortal man Abraham, that it is fundamental to our knowledge of God. There is a connection between the spiritual part of our world that God knows and we try to understand but understand darkly. God shows us the spirit using our physical world we do understand. If we deny the physical God is teaching us through we are only further from God. He does use actual people and actual events, God wants us to see those, too.

And I would like you to put elect in your search in the concordance. It is used in different ways, but always it is about the people God has given salvation to. Not Jews alone. Not gentiles alone.