The book of Job, my favorite book.

[tttallison]

People alway assume God didnt favor Job. But job was favored what other person did God put so much trust in except his son jesus? He asked job to pray for his friend because he would not accept them if not for job.

Job strove with God. Job rebuked God. Job said God would laugh at the trial of the innocence. Job exalted his own righteousness above God's righteousness. So help me understand how he is Christ like.

 

[Magenta]

Job 33:27b-28~ I have sinned and perverted what was right; yet I did not get what I deserved. He redeemed my soul from going down to the Pit, and I will live to see the Light.

 

[Magenta]

Job 19:25-27a

 

[christophernyc]

So to you, it's still just a wager between God and satan, and Job's "profit" from it is merely incidental - God had no redemptive purpose in what He started.
Make no mistake - GOD STARTED the whole process, not satan, and every step along the way was under God's control.

No, I would not reduce this story to just a wager. Yet part of the story is that there is a challenge being put forth. That is the premise that launches Job's ordeal. Will Job curse God if he suffers or not? That is what we watch play out until God appears in chapter 38.

Not sure where the description of Job's benefit being merely incidental comes from. Also don't know who said there was no redemptive purpose in what happened either, but that is not my position.

Thinking about the story as a whole, I think it is a beautiful display by God to prove that His relationship with His people is not how satan sees it or what satan accuses it of being. I think it's also a beautiful story of God's sovereignty and salvation. Repeatedly Job thinks he is on his way to death, and yet in the end God shows up and spares his life. Job is redeemed, his whole life is redeemed, and he experiences the greatest revelation of God he has ever experienced.

I would agree with you again that everything that happened to Job was under God's control. That is very clear in chapters 1 & 2.

Going back to the original discrepancy though, your view is that Job was living in the sin of pride and self-reliance. My question still remains: why does God call Job blameless, one who fears God and shuns evil, if Job is full of pride? Isn't pride a sin? This point of view is different from what we read during the behind-the-scenes details being provided in chapters 1 & 2.

Here is where I think the problem ultimately lies with perspectives like this one. It seems to me that people take this position because it is essentially what Elihu says about Job. It is also akin to the position that Job's three friends take with Job, too, namely that Job must have done something to incur his suffering. Sounds familiar. So this perspective is in the text, but it comes from the mouths of those who are demonstrably adversarial to Job. In the end God praises Job for his words, and God rebukes the three friends for what they have said.

 

[christophernyc]

Job 19:25-27a

One of the most profound statements in the Book of Job (given by Job) and arguably one of the most well-known in all of the Bible. Job prophecies this, and then it comes true.

 

[Magenta]

One of the most profound statements in the Book of Job (given by Job) and arguably one
of the most well-known in all of the Bible. Job prophecies this, and then it comes true.

Job, often cited as the oldest book of the Bible, attests to the resurrection and after life
looooooooooooooooonnngggg being part of our beliefs, which I have seen some people
trying to deny. Good old Job! He proves neither are recent additions, despite the Sadducees,
who did not believe in the resurrection. That is why they were sad, you see...

Could not resist adding that little joke at thee end LOL

 

[Clayman]

This is an excellent take on an aspect that wasn't being considered. Jesus was not only fulfilling scripture and bringing the gospel...Isaiah 61...He was also doing the work of providing the blessings of the gospel in His earthly ministry. But as you point out, His entire existence was one of suffering. He suffered the loss of glory, He suffered the hardships of life, He suffered in humility before men, and finally the indignity and anguish of the cross. He truly bore our iniquity.
I also like the way you have humanized Jesus. We often forget His humanity. This was made clearer to me as I watched Chosen. Though it didn't follow the biblical script and has other problems, it does a good job of humanizing Jesus.
I find your insights very refreshing and helpful.

Job(Jesus) was stripped bare, so we can see his inner workings so to speak. Naked he came from his mothers womb and naked he shall return Job 1:21. Adam and Eve(mankind) after sinning needed to cover themselves to hide their/our shame, Jesus at the cross was stripped naked as part of the ridicule and suffering, yet He had no shame.

Now we have no need to be shamed before a righteous God for we are clothed in Christ that we may live for Him.

“He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.”. 1Pet 2:24

 

[christophernyc]

Job strove with God. Job rebuked God. Job said God would laugh at the trial of the innocence. Job exalted his own righteousness above God's righteousness. So help me understand how he is Christ like.

This verse from 9:23 keeps coming up here. Question: have you reduced the profundity of Job's entire testimony to this one verse?

There are numerous parallels between Job and Jesus. No, Job is not Jesus, obviously. Job was a sinful man, but Jesus never sinned. Let's get that out of the way. Again, the reason God calls Job blameless is because whenever he did sin, God showed him, Job turned to God, and the sin was dealt with.

So Job is not literally Jesus, but he provides us with a type and shadow of Jesus. Job's ordeal is a foreshadowing of what Christ Jesus would suffer when He came to live here as a man. Here are a few examples:

1. Job did not do anything wrong to incur his suffering. He was innocent in that sense, just as Jesus was innocent.
2. Job was falsely accused by his friends that he had done something wrong. Jesus was also falsely accused of doing something wrong, then was brought before Pilate and eventually crucified.
3. In Job 13:24 Job cries out asking why God has hidden His face from him. Jesus cries out on the Cross, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"
4. Job talks about others striking him on the cheek and spitting in his face (16:10 & 30:10).
5. Job believes he is on his way to death during his suffering. Jesus is actually on His way to dying during His suffering.
6. Job is ultimately saved from his suffering and prays for his friends. Jesus rose from the dead and always lives to make intercession for the saints.

Those are just a few correlations between Job and Jesus.

 

[Clayman]

BINGO!! Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you!! I love how you laid all of this out. I wholeheartedly agree with you that one of the purposes of the Book of Job is to reveal Jesus to us, specifically Jesus the suffering servant like in Isaiah 53. It is wonderful how you went on to explain how we don't necessarily see the deep emotions that Jesus must have been feeling during his Passion and otherwise. Job is a clear way for us to understand Jesus in a deeper way.

I have brought up the parallel a couple of times in this thread (albeit, I would like to do more). But some want to immediately correct the idea and say that Job is not Jesus. Of course, in fact, they are right - Job is not literally Jesus and nobody in their right mind would believe that. The point, however, is that Job's experience is a foreshadowing of Jesus Christ and what he would suffer. The big difference, of course, Jesus died from the suffering but Job did not die in his suffering.

One of the biggest parallels I see between Job and Jesus is the loss of connection with God. Job is repeatedly crying out, asking where God is in this ordeal and deeply wanting to connect with Him again. Even if Job is in the wrong, he does not care. He wants God to at least tell him that - but many times Job only experiences silence from God. This reminds me so much of when Jesus was on the Cross and He cries out to God, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?" Job felt abandoned by God just like Jesus felt abandoned by God. Ultimately, we know God produces salvation in both instances.

Thank you again for what you wrote! I will fan that flame every time.

Exactly, great point with God abandoning Jesus on the cross, the turmoil and anxiety Jesus must have felt we will never know.
I hate going to the dentist, when I do, or go to surgery or do a test for certain privileges like driving my anxiety levels go through the roof, but nothing compared to the Lords.

Jesus was in agony just thinking about the cross, and being forsaken by God.

Luke 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

He even asked if it was possible, for another way!

Yet there was no other way He could redeem us than by being the substitutional sacrifice on that cross. Which He went through for us.

I for one will not complain about any hardships that I may suffer from now on,