The Bride of Christ, NOT who (rather what) you think it is.

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#41
As I said, there is way too much detailed information about the city for it to be speaking symbolically.

It's a real city!
I believe he is simply insisting that the real city is NOT the Bride of Christ. Yes the New Jerusalem is absolutely a genuine and unique supernatural city -- a cubic city which is larger than any city on earth. But the Church is the Bride of Christ, and shall become the Wife of the Lamb. And because the New Jerusalem is the eternal home of the Bride, who will be the Wife, it is personified as such.

REVELATION 19
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#42
If we interpret that literally then we have to assume the existence of some very large oysters.
Is anything too difficult for God? He doesn't need the Oysters, because He can just create that material of a pearl.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#43
I believe he is simply insisting that the real city is NOT the Bride of Christ. Yes the New Jerusalem is absolutely a genuine and unique supernatural city -- a cubic city which is larger than any city on earth. But the Church is the Bride of Christ, and shall become the Wife of the Lamb. And because the New Jerusalem is the eternal home of the Bride, who will be the Wife, it is personified as such.

REVELATION 19
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Well, in his post he said that the new Jerusalem was just imagery, which is why I responded. I have heard many people make the claim that the new Jerusalem as not being a literal city, to which I say is ridiculous because of the amazing amount of detail about the city given in chapters 21 and 22 and the fact that Jesus refers to the city, stating that for those who are victorious, He will write on them the name of His God, the city of His God, the new Jerusalem and will write on them His new name. We also have the new Jerusalem mentioned in the following warning:

"And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll."

He stated that it is not a real city and I have been telling him that it is a literal city.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#44
He stated that it is not a real city and I have been telling him that it is a literal city.
Fair enough. Sorry for the misunderstanding. The New Jerusalem is A CUBE.

1500 miles wide
1500 miles deep
1500 miles high

Just as the Holy of Holies (the Most Holy Place) was a perfect cube (20 cubits x 20 cubits x 20 cubits) and the glory of God rested upon it, the New Jerusalem will be a perfect cube (1500 miles x 1500 miles x 1500 miles) ,in which God and the Lamb are the Light of it, and they are also the Temple of that city. It is all there in Scripture.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#45
Fair enough. Sorry for the misunderstanding. The New Jerusalem is A CUBE.

1500 miles wide
1500 miles deep
1500 miles high

Just as the Holy of Holies (the Most Holy Place) was a perfect cube (20 cubits x 20 cubits x 20 cubits) and the glory of God rested upon it, the New Jerusalem will be a perfect cube (1500 miles x 1500 miles x 1500 miles) ,in which God and the Lamb are the Light of it, and they are also the Temple of that city. It is all there in Scripture.
No problem regarding the misunderstanding. Completely agree with the dimensions and in addition, twelve gates each made from a single pearl with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel written on them, with twelve foundations made of different precious stones and garnished with precious stones with the names of the twelve apostles written on the foundations.

Since the city is 1500 miles high, that would make each foundation 125 miles in height. That's huge!

After reading the information listed in Rev.22 & 23, I don't see how anyone could interpret it as not being a literal city. I guess it's part of the same deceiving spirit that is in the world that seems to attempt to distort most Biblical topics.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#46
Since the city is 1500 miles high, that would make each foundation 125 miles in height. That's huge!
The city is 12,000 stadia high. Symbolic number 12. To translate it into American system of miles (1,400) or into European system of kilometers (2,200) destroys the meaning completely.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#47
The city is 12,000 stadia high. Symbolic number 12. To translate it into American system of miles (1,400) destroys the meaning completely.
Maybe. However, since that measure is obsolete, and people understand miles, then we need to make it understandable to see what a massive city God has prepared ("whose builder and maker is God"). BTW it is 1,500 miles, not 1,400.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#48
Maybe. However, since that measure is obsolete, and people understand miles, then we need to make it understandable to see what a massive city God has prepared ("whose builder and maker is God"). BTW it is 1,500 miles, not 1,400.
Only if you want to ignore the symbolism and postulate that the city is literal. Then and only then you want to translate it to understand "how high it is" instead of seeing the symbolism of perfect 12 (12 tribes, 12 apostles).

But no commentary accepts the literal view and I think that nobody in history did.

Why 1,500? NIV says 1,400 - http://biblehub.com/niv/revelation/21.htm

----

Wall is 144 cubits thick. Guess what - its 12*12.

If you translate these symbolic numbers to 1,400 miles and 200 feet, you will lose everything.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#49
Only if you want to ignore the symbolism and postulate that the city is literal. Then and only then you want to translate it to understand "how high it is" instead of seeing the symbolism of perfect 12 (12 tribes, 12 apostles).

But no commentary accepts the literal view and I think that nobody in history did.

Why 1,500? NIV says 1,400 - http://biblehub.com/niv/revelation/21.htm

----

Wall is 144 cubits thick. Guess what - its 12*12.

If you translate these symbolic numbers to 1,400 miles and 200 feet, you will lose everything.
So what does it all symbolically mean?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#50
So what does it all symbolically mean?
Church, coming with Christ in His second coming. church, based on 12 tribes, 12 apostles, perfect, without any stain, with pefect shapes etc.

You can read some commentary, there are plenty, for more details.

I must go to bed, its midnight here...
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#51
So what does it all symbolically mean?
The question Christians should ask is "What does it mean in terms of ETERNAL REALITY?" Symbols are only there to represent reality, but we must focus on reality, not symbols.

1. The reality is that Christ has chosen to espouse Himself to His redeemed people eternally. He is the eternal Husband of His eternal Wife -- the Church. This is the epitome of salvation by God's grace and based on the finished work of Christ. Both John the Baptist and the apostle Paul were shown that Christ is the Divine Bridegroom and the Church is the Bride.

2. This depicts the eternal UNION AND COMMUNION of the saints with Christ (so Christian marriage becomes a type of this relationship). Eternal fellowship with the Godhead is really beyond our understanding. As mortals, we cannot fully understand the height and depth of this fellowship with God, since we will also be eternal kings and priests in His eternal Kingdom.

3. God has supernaturally prepared a special eternal city for the Wife of Christ. That is what the New Jerusalem is, with its mansions for each and everyone who is saved by grace. That city is so closely identified with the Bride (the Wife), and the Lamb (the Husband), that God personifies that city as the Bride. And God and the Lamb will be both the Light and the Temple of that city.

4. None of us can even comprehend the reality of this city and the reality of our eternal relationship with the Godhead, therefore we can simply present what is in Scripture and leave it at that.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#52
The city is 12,000 stadia high. Symbolic number 12. To translate it into American system of miles (1,400) or into European system of kilometers (2,200) destroys the meaning completely.
I agree that it's symbolic. Also, I believe that 12,000 may be the perimeter of the city, not the length of each side and its height.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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#53
In my opinion, the city will be quite literal.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#54
In my opinion, the city will be quite literal.
Of course it is. The bible didn't say that it was this huge square city but gave the actual height, length, and depth measurement. Maybe we will live there while the new heavens and earth are being created.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#56
Of course it is. The bible didn't say that it was this huge square city but gave the actual height, length, and depth measurement. Maybe we will live there while the new heavens and earth are being created.
Revelation 21:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


It seems it comes down out of Heaven to the new earth?
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#57
Revelation 21:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


It seems it comes down out of Heaven to the new earth?
It will indeed but could still provide lodging for the residents until in hits solid ground. Regardless, there is no reason to not belief the city is real and the dimensions stated are accurate it detail.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#58
It seems it comes down out of Heaven to the new earth?
If we take all things into account, the New Jerusalem does NOT come down to the earth, but remains in orbit over the earth. Since there will be no sun, the New Jerusalem will provide light to the New Earth, therefore it must remain as a heavenly body over the New Earth. And that is at is should be. As Scripture says "our citizenship is in Heaven".
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#59
If we take all things into account, the New Jerusalem does NOT come down to the earth, but remains in orbit over the earth. Since there will be no sun, the New Jerusalem will provide light to the New Earth, therefore it must remain as a heavenly body over the New Earth. And that is at is should be. As Scripture says "our citizenship is in Heaven".
GOD would be a liar if Abraham doesn't get to enjoy his land that GOD promised him.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#60
The city is 12,000 stadia high. Symbolic number 12. To translate it into American system of miles (1,400) or into European system of kilometers (2,200) destroys the meaning completely.
That's false Trophimus. Though God used specific number like 3, 7, 12, etc., the purpose here is to give a literal measurement of the foundations, the width, depth and height, which as the scripture states, was human measurement which the angel was using.

The angel who spoke with me had a golden measuring rod to measure the city and its gates and its walls. The city lies foursquare, with its width the same as its length. And he measured the city with the rod, and all its dimensions were equal—twelve thousand stadia in length and width and height. And he measured its wall to be one hundred forty-four cubits, by the human measure the angel was using.

Don't you think the Lord knew that we in the future would be reading this information regarding the new Jerusalem and its measurements. It's purpose is to let us know the size of the city. A "Statdia" was the measurement of a standard completion foot race track and so that was one of the forms of measurement at that time. Therefore, 12,000 stadia today would be equal to 1400 to 1500 miles.

stádion – properly, the distance of a race-course; a stadium ("furlong"), the measure (length) of an ancient foot-race; a furlong ("stadion");