The Commandments of God (according to scripture)

[Dino246]

That is a straw man.

No, a straw man (argument) is a simplified misrepresentation of an argument. My statement is straightforward.

In Genesis 39:9, Joseph knew that it was a sin to commit adultery long before the Mosaic Covenant was made, so not being under the Mosaic Covenant does not mean that we are not under any of its laws. Not even Jesus obeyed the laws in regard to giving birth or to having a period, so there is nothing wrong with not following a law that doesn't have its condition men.

Wrong; the Mosaic covenant has no bearing whatsoever on Jacob's actions. Your argument is a fallacy of anachronism.

 

[Soyeong]

No, a straw man (argument) is a simplified misrepresentation of an argument. My statement is straightforward.

Which you did by misrepresenting my argument.

Wrong; the Mosaic covenant has no bearing whatsoever on Jacob's actions. Your argument is a fallacy of anachronism.

Joseph is an example of someone who was obligated to refrain from committing adultery even though he wasn't under the Mosaic Covenant, so my point still stands that not being under the Mosaic Covenant does not mean that we are not under any of its laws. Moreover, my point also still stands that there is nothing wrong with not following a law that doesn't have its condition met.

 

[Dino246]

Which you did by misrepresenting my argument.

Um, no, I didn’t.

Joseph is an example of someone who was obligated to refrain from committing adultery even though he wasn't under the Mosaic Covenant, so my point still stands that not being under the Mosaic Covenant does not mean that we are not under any of its laws. Moreover, my point also still stands that there is nothing wrong with not following a law that doesn't have its condition met.

You are again employing the fallacy of anachronism… and your closing sentence makes no sense.

 

[posthuman]

God’s people hear His voice and follow Him and He ”knows” them.

so those He never knew were never 'His people' - - but those who are His, He never forsakes, but knows us, and reveals Himself to us, so that we know Him as He also knows us.

 

[posthuman]

not being under the Mosaic Covenant does not mean that we are not under any of its laws.

that's nonsense.

dead people obey noise ordinance laws naturally but that doesn't mean they are under noise ordinance laws. their silence is a greater, natural law.

 

[Soyeong]

that's nonsense.

dead people obey noise ordinance laws naturally but that doesn't mean they are under noise ordinance laws. their silence is a greater, natural law.

All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so all of them existed before they were given as part of the Mosaic Covenant, and there are many examples of them being in place prior to when that covenant was made, one of which is that Joseph knew that it was a sin to commit adultery in Genesis 39:9. Not sure why you think that is nonsense how why you think that relates to your example of noise ordinance laws.

 

[posthuman]

All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so all of them existed before they were given as part of the Mosaic Covenant

also nonsense.

Galatians 3:19 tells us explicitly that "The Law was added because of transgression" - - by saying "added" the Law cannot exist in eternity past, and furthermore if Psalm 119:160 says the Law is eternal then you imply sin is eternal too, equal to God, because the law is a reaction to sin, not a precursor to it.

But that isn't what the verse says:

Psalms 119:160​

The entirety of Your word [is] truth, And every one of Your righteous judgments [endures] forever.​

it says His judgements endure forever.

 

[posthuman]

there are many examples of them being in place prior to when that covenant was made, one of which is that Joseph knew that it was a sin to commit adultery in Genesis 39:9.

nonsense, as previously discussed.
Joseph is not under the Law. the introduction of the Law does not change righteousness nor does the passing away of it.

Not sure why you think that is nonsense how why you think that relates to your example of noise ordinance laws.

because the Christian has died, and their life is hidden in Christ - therefore the believer is not under law at all, which only applies so long as a man lives.

it's called salvation.
Jesus died for a reason.

 

[posthuman]

His judgements endure forever.

therefore Salvation is eternal & irrevocable

 

[Soyeong]

also nonsense.

Galatians 3:19 tells us explicitly that "The Law was added because of transgression" - - by saying "added" the Law cannot exist in eternity past, and furthermore if Psalm 119:160 says the Law is eternal then you imply sin is eternal too, equal to God, because the law is a reaction to sin, not a precursor to it.

But that isn't what the verse says:

Psalms 119:160​

The entirety of Your word [is] truth, And every one of Your righteous judgments [endures] forever.​

it says His judgements endure forever.

God's nature is eternal and sin is what is contrary to God's nature, so sin is therefore also eternal. For as long God's nature has eternally existed, there has also existed a way to act in accordance with or contrary to His nature, and that way is defined through His law. Sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so sin can't exist prior to when there was a law to transgress. Sin was in the word before the law was given (Romans 5:13), so people were able to sin by acting in a way that is contrary to God's nature before they had been instructed laws to refrain from doing that, and the same is true of Galatians 3:19.

In Psalms 119:160, it uses the Hebrew word "mishpatim", which refers to the category of laws in regard to righteousness and justice. In other words, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), so the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness, is therefore also eternal (Psalms 119:160). Sin is what is contrary to God's nature, so unrighteousness is sin. The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of the nature of God' as it does to describe aspects of the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23), which again is because it is God's eternal instructions for how to divide between what is in accordance with or contrary to His eternal nature.

nonsense, as previously discussed.
Joseph is not under the Law. the introduction of the Law does not change righteousness nor does the passing away of it.

Calling it nonsense is not a counterargument. There were no actions that become in accordance with or contrary to God's righteousness when the law was given, but rather the law revealed what has always been and will always be the way to do that. Jospeh knew that is was a sin against God to commit adultery, so he must have been taught a law against doing that which he was obligated to obey.

because the Christian has died, and their life is hidden in Christ - therefore the believer is not under law at all, which only applies so long as a man lives.

it's called salvation.
Jesus died for a reason.

Christ walked in obedience to God's law, and in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked. In other words, the way to be unified with God's word made flesh is by obeying God's word, not by rejecting it. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself t redeem us from God's law, but in order to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20).

In Romans 6:14, it describes the law that we are not under as being a law where sin had dominion over us, which does not describe the Law of God, which is a law where holiness, righteousness, goodness, justice, mercy, and faithfulness have dominion over us, but rather it is the law of sin where sin had dominion over us. In Romans 6:15, being under grace does not mean that we are permitted to sin, and sin is the transgression of the Law of God (1 John 3:4), so we are still under it. Moreover, everything else in Romans 6 speaks in favor of obedience to the Law of God and against sin. So we need to die to the law of sin in order to be free to obey the Law of God, not the other way around.

 

[posthuman]

sin is therefore also eternal.

then there is no salvation,
and Satan is equivalent to God

 

[posthuman]

Calling it nonsense is not a counterargument.

pretending i gave no counterargument is just more nonsense.

 

[posthuman]

There were no actions that become in accordance with or contrary to God's righteousness when the law was given, but rather the law revealed what has always been and will always be the way to do that.

therefore the law is not eternal:
you have conceded your premise to be false.

 

[posthuman]

In Romans 6:14, it describes the law that we are not under

Romans 7 describes the law we are not under as the 10 Commandments.

Romans 6 describes believers not being under law at all - 1 Corinthians 9 clarifies that this doesn't mean believers are lawless. clearly we aren't under Moses or the decalogue ((which is Moses, despite the human tradition to selectively ignore jots and tittles))

no less than a dozen times in Romans 6 the believer is said to have died. kind of a theme.
no law holds a corpse liable.

it's Salvation; thereby we are set free in order to belong to Christ - - why do you work to withhold it from people?

Do you believe life will be stolen if it is truly free? is it for that reason you seek to charge for it?

whoever believes is saved.

 

[posthuman]

you're going to have a really hard time convincing anyone who understands the gospel that they need to go to church on Saturdays in order to be saved.

this is no "new" heresy.

i pray for the ignorant, that they are not deceived by these people. it is the poor and the stranger they prey on.

 

[posthuman]

Christ walked in obedience to God's law

um. duh He's God.
so He does what is His nature.

the Law is not greater than the Lawgiver - this is what it means, He is Lord of the sabbath. not that He is beholden to a law which was only given because of sin and only speaks to the sinner, but that He may break it with impunity. His entire argument in Matthew 12 is that it is possible to contradict the Law and be guiltless.

Christ is greater than the temple.
Christ is greater than the sabbath.
Christ is greater than circumcision.
JESUS OF NAZARETH is above all things


when He saves a person, He gives them a nature in accordance with His own. He never forsakes them: whom He knows, He knows. whom He buys, He does not sell.

 

[posthuman]

doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe

Matthew 12 demonstrates that good works exist outside the law, even contrary to it.

here is where He calls Himself 'Lord of sabbath' - not signifying subjection to the law but signifying superiority to the law.

goodness is greater than the law.

 

[posthuman]

whom He buys, He does not sell.

@Soyeong @SabbathBlessing@whateverotherSDAsimissed

do you disagree?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

so those He never knew were never 'His people' - - but those who are His, He never forsakes, but knows us, and reveals Himself to us, so that we know Him as He also knows us.

No Jesus never forsakes us, but we forsake Him when we do our will instead of His and rebel against Him and His commandments that show us how to love God and love man 1 John 5:2-3 what is righteous Psa 119:172 what is Truth Psa 119:151 Jesus never promises all will be saved, Mat 7:21-23 He doesn't ask for much, but sadly even what He asks is too much for many.

This story is not new, it's the same one repeated over and over in the scriptures, people want to worship Jesus on their terms, but Jesus said in His own Words that when we place our rules/traditions over the commandment of God and He directly quotes from the Ten Commandments our hearts are far from Him Mat 15:3-9 I can only speak for myself but I do not want my heart from Jesus the opposite of the New Covenant- God's law written in our hearts obeying Him through love and faith.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

also nonsense.

Galatians 3:19 tells us explicitly that "The Law was added because of transgression" - - by saying "added" the Law cannot exist in eternity past, and furthermore if Psalm 119:160 says the Law is eternal then you imply sin is eternal too, equal to God, because the law is a reaction to sin, not a precursor to it.

But that isn't what the verse says:

Psalms 119:160​

The entirety of Your word [is] truth, And every one of Your righteous judgments [endures] forever.​

it says His judgements endure forever.

The law that was added because of sin cannot be the same law that defines sin when broken. 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 Mat 5:19-30

Why Cain knew it was a "sin" to kill Abel. Where there is no law, there is no transgression Romans 4:15 what law is thou shalt not murder come from? All of God's commandments are righteous Psa 119:172 and Truth Psa 119:151 and God's righteousness and Truth does not change as God does not change and this reflects His eternal character.