The connection between: Loving Jesus—Obedience—Eternal Life

[maxwel]

Ha! You can't make me afraid no matter how hard you try! I believe in Jesus Christ and have absolutely no intention of giving up my faith in Christ under any circumstances!

The only thing that would make me afraid is believing in "eternal security - that is OSAS" - because then if my works did not match up to what people thought they should be, then they would tell me I was never saved in the first place! I am not putting my faith in OSAS under any circumstances - I am keeping my faith in Jesus Christ alone!

Good.

So...
what exactly could make you lose your salvation?

 

[Magenta]

.Jesus considers being “faithful” has to do with overcoming sin, etc. (see Revelation 3:21).
He certainly does not define an overcomer as one who believes He is the Son of God.

Scripture does define an overcomer as one who believes, in 1 John 4-5

for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

 

[FreeNChrist]

The original statement was "if I can lose eternal life, it is not eternal". This statement is man's thinking and not Biblical - (my view - you can disagree! - and I won't be offended or call you names! )

God is the initiator and creator of eternal life and of course eternal life is always eternal life. If I lose the gift of eternal life because I cease believing in Jesus, that does not diminish or change the gift God gives to those who believe in Him. This is perhaps what you are trying to say Eccl. 3:14 says.


If someone gives me a gift of a watch that will always run forever - then I lose the watch - that watch will still keep on running forever but I do not have it!

Then it wasn't "eternal" life you received, it was only temporal life, and you make God a liar.

 

[ZacharyB]

Scripture does define an overcomer as one who believes, in 1 John 4-5

for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

John is only talking about overcoming the world.

In Rev 3:21, Jesus is talking about overcoming as He overcame!
He overcame the Devil, sin, His flesh, the world, etc.
Did I leave anything out?

And where are all the people now who usually yell and scream about
going with Jesus' words above the words of the other NT writers?

 

[posthuman]

[SUP]26 [/SUP]“If you want to be my disciple, you must, by comparison, hate everyone else—
your father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters
—yes, even your own life. Otherwise, you cannot be my disciple. (NLT)

What? ... Shall we just ignore this?

well, considering the NLT interjected the part you underlined -- "by comparison" is definitely not in the original text at all -- maybe we actually should just ignore that part.
and/or read a much more literal translation.

it's one thing to try to build an argument that what's being taught in this verse should be understood as "by comparison" - but should we add that phrase to the Bible and then underline it as though it's actually part of scripture?

((post is not a fan of the NLT, for reasons like this))

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If salvation can be lost... maybe you SHOULD be afraid.


What if you do something wrong?

What if you make some mistake?

What if you misunderstand some scripture, and get something wrong.

What if Satan deceives you?

What if your heart fails, or your courage fails, or your obedience fails?


I dunno... maybe you should be afraid.

If they are not afraid, they are lieing to themselves.

How can you trust a sinful, rebellious self (self righteousness) to save itself?

only thing I can think if is watering dow the law so you cna somhow jump over it, and judge sinners, so you feel good about yourself.

 

[posthuman]

If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.
(Luke 14:26 NASB)
​

doesn't this imply that i can't be His disciple unless i hate even myself - counting my own faithfulness and obedience and wisdom as nothing, not by any means any kind of justification for the great gift and working of God in me?

i.e. as though i have nothing whatsoever to boast of or commend me to God, but trust wholly in Him who both grants and is become my salvation? Him who works in us and through us and for us? The One who now lives, risen, even as my own life is crucified with Him by immersion into His?

 

[posthuman]

it's always hard to respond to threads that blanketly accuse everyone of disobedience and lukewarmness.

how am i supposed to satisfy the OP without boasting of myself?

if i boast instead of Christ redeeming me, am i accused of the same passivity?

probably i should just mollify myself. yes, post is nothing, post is disobedient, post lacks love, post is unkind and tepid. ((post needs a Saviour)). i cannot live; i need that someone live in my place - i need that someone give me life, and preserve me, and hold me, and lead me. my legs are only dry bones, and i need that the Lord wrap them in flesh and breathe life into them - daily.

and so my trust is wholly in Him, and i have nothing i did not receive

is He not worthy of all praise?

 

[posthuman]

[video=youtube;1UK7PbgevSY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UK7PbgevSY[/video]

Make me to go in the path of thy commandments;
for therein do I delight.
(Psalm 119:35)​

 

[Grandpa]

[video=youtube;e37m3I5eH8g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e37m3I5eH8g[/video]

 

[yaright]

ZacharyB, I don't understand what you mean when you say; "You people" and eternally-grateful, I don't know what you mean when you use the term; "pharisee-ism" Wasn't the apostle Paul a pharisee of pharisees?

 

[ZacharyB]

If I can lose eternal life, it is not eternal.. .

Scripture for that ???????????????????????????????

True believers have eternal life ... and God is not lying about this.

Yes, but true believers are "faithful" in their endurance until the end of their lives!\
(And they will also be faithful to NOT take the mark of the beast.)

But, Paul in Hebrews says: DISOBEDIENCE proves UNBELIEF.

The OT Israelites were guilty of this, and we are warned to NOT be like them!

 

[ZacharyB]

ZacharyB, I don't understand what you mean when you say; "You people" and eternally-grateful,
I don't know what you mean when you use the term; "pharisee-ism"
Wasn't the apostle Paul a pharisee of pharisees?

Yes, Saul was a Pharisee before receiving the Holy Spirit.
Then he changed his name to Paul.
A whole different creation ... a new creation (1 Cor 15, etc.).

 

[ZacharyB]

... and so my trust is wholly in Him, and i have nothing i did not receive

Sure ... Great ...
You trust wholly in Him to lead you, guide you, help you, teach you, etc.
What else is the precious Holy Spirit for?

So, you had better co-operate, follow Him, be obedient to Him, etc.

Because ...
"Those who are led by God's Spirit are sons of God" (Romans 8:14)

And this does NOT refer to initially believing in Jesus and His gospel
any more than ...
obeying Jesus does NOT refer to initially believing in Jesus and His gospel.

 

[FreeNChrist]

True believers have eternal life ... and God is not lying about this.

Yes, but true believers are "faithful" in their endurance until the end of their lives!\
(And they will also be faithful to NOT take the mark of the beast.)

But, Paul in Hebrews says: DISOBEDIENCE proves UNBELIEF.

The OT Israelites were guilty of this, and we are warned to NOT be like them!

[h=1][/h]"[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]What if some were unfaithful?[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness?" Rom. 3:3

[/FONT]

 

[FreeNChrist]

Sure ... Great ...
You trust wholly in Him to lead you, guide you, help you, teach you, etc.
What else is the precious Holy Spirit for?

So, you had better co-operate, follow Him, be obedient to Him, etc.

Because ...
"Those who are led by God's Spirit are sons of God" (Romans 8:14)

And this does NOT refer to initially believing in Jesus and His gospel
any more than ...
obeying Jesus does NOT refer to initially believing in Jesus and His gospel.

"For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.” Rom. 1:17

 

[Chester]

Then it wasn't "eternal" life you received, it was only temporal life, and you make God a liar.

It sure was eternal life that I received!
And I still have it! - not because of my works, not just because I was born again, but because right now I am continuing to believe in Jesus Christ as my Saviour, Redeemer, Lord, and friend!

Now is that making God a liar???

 

[FreeNChrist]

It sure was eternal life that I received!
And I still have it! - not because of my works, not just because I was born again, but because right now I am continuing to believe in Jesus Christ as my Saviour, Redeemer, Lord, and friend!

Now is that making God a liar???

If you change the life that Christians receive in Christ from eternal to temporal, yes, that is you making God liar.

 

[Chester]

If they are not afraid, they are lieing to themselves.

How can you trust a sinful, rebellious self (self righteousness) to save itself?

only thing I can think if is watering dow the law so you cna somhow jump over it, and judge sinners, so you feel good about yourself.

So . . . making a parallel statement about those who believe in OSAS . . .

. . . if you believe in OSAS you had better be afraid because if your works are not measuring up, then you were not saved in the first place!!

Doesn't that make you quake and quiver with fright and fear? If it doesn't make you afraid, then you must be lying to yourself?


The above statements may make no sense to you, but then neither does your post # 66 to me!

Anyway, God bless you with a merry Christmas and a happy New Year!

 

[Chester]

If you change the life that Christians receive in Christ from eternal to temporal, yes, that is you making God liar.

I am sure not changing the life that God gives Christians from eternal to temporal, but then neither am I going to say that God gives eternal life to those who do not believe in Him!

If you believe God gives eternal life to those who do not believe in Him, then I think that is making God a liar!