THE DAY OF THE LORD
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Can you show me from the bible exactly what the abomination that makes desolate is? Maybe you're not understanding what it is.
Yes I read what you wrote, you said Luke 21:24 was a seperate future event from Luke 21:20. Luke 21:24 is not future.
Luke 21:24 KJV
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luke 21:24 KJV
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
E
Jerusalem? What does this have to do with it?
The abomination of desolation happens in the holy place. Not the city.
and I told you what the bible said,
Jesus said [SUP]15 [/SUP]“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[SUP][c][/SUP] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand)
Where do you get city out of this?
I interpreted it as a jew would have interpreted it in Daniels day, and in jesus day.
is that ot how we interpret scripture?
The abomination of desolation happens in the holy place. Not the city.
and I told you what the bible said,
Jesus said [SUP]15 [/SUP]“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[SUP][c][/SUP] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand)
Where do you get city out of this?
I interpreted it as a jew would have interpreted it in Daniels day, and in jesus day.
is that ot how we interpret scripture?
E
the remnant are part. the rest are blinded and still under the snare of the law.
The time of jacobs trouble was to being all Isreal to salvation, ot just the remnant.
But paul said when the time of the gentile is complete. ALL Iarael will be saved (this means the rest at that time will also be saved)
Paul fought the jews trying to entangle people under the law his whole ministry, Seems the jew were still ensared by the yoke of the law and trying to put u=others under it also.
The time of jacobs trouble was to being all Isreal to salvation, ot just the remnant.
But paul said when the time of the gentile is complete. ALL Iarael will be saved (this means the rest at that time will also be saved)
Paul fought the jews trying to entangle people under the law his whole ministry, Seems the jew were still ensared by the yoke of the law and trying to put u=others under it also.
E
Um, I never mentioned luke, so already your not being truthful to yourself or anyone else reading what you post.
I said, the events where two different events.
The time Isreal would be scattered according to what God promised would happen in lev 26, which was fulfilled completely for the first time in ad 70, and the time Jesu said, when you see the abomination, ru to the hills. for then their will be great tribulation, and the time John said the woman will be protected in rev 13 are two different events.
I fully realize that there are many Bible passages concerning the last days. About a third of the Bible directly refers to
that time. It is not possible to slavishly copy out every verse on this site and explain every connection. What I have set down is what some passages say about the day of the lord. It is a phrase that is repeated in many places. This thread has already drifted away from its main purpose. That is one reason why I post very few threads.
that time. It is not possible to slavishly copy out every verse on this site and explain every connection. What I have set down is what some passages say about the day of the lord. It is a phrase that is repeated in many places. This thread has already drifted away from its main purpose. That is one reason why I post very few threads.
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In my ignorance I believed it was the Holy Spirit that supposed to help us interpret the Bible not a Degree from Oxford or Yale. I wonder how the Disciples managed or those Bereans. The only Apostle with a known education was Paul and he
wasn't very complimentary about his. But then Im not highly educated so what do I know?
wasn't very complimentary about his. But then Im not highly educated so what do I know?
J
Your thread drifted from its purpose? Around here? No! You don't say? How is that possible?!
It really is a huge topic, so much of scripture addressing those end times and the reign of the Lord, very difficult to actually zero-in on any discrete scripture, as it would only present a fragment, a piece of the puzzle. The events leading up to the millennium and the millennium are fascinating OT studies, as there is much detail not found in the NT, the OT, of course, more to do with Israel, not New Covenant doctrine, at least such doctrine hidden in the OT, is revealed only on hindsight. But you simply picked a large topic volumes could be written about, and have been.
It's the most important study I think I've made, though, at least the most satisfying, as it reveals the unity of the Bible message and the map of God's plan. I think God made it so that we would have to mine that unity, as it takes years to pull some things together that don't come easily. It doesn't seem a topic there can be a general thread about and maintain any stream of thought, as you point out, so much scripture going many directions. It can also turn into a senseless topic, when Preterists and the like come around to deconstruct everything, announcing the Bible doesn't mean what it says, in essence. ("I don't understand it, therefore it's symbolic.") I've had this happen with threads, things degenerating into symbolic fairy tales, to end in thinking, "What was the use of that thread?"
Just take heart your thread hasn't been reduced to grace versus law, yet.
It really is a huge topic, so much of scripture addressing those end times and the reign of the Lord, very difficult to actually zero-in on any discrete scripture, as it would only present a fragment, a piece of the puzzle. The events leading up to the millennium and the millennium are fascinating OT studies, as there is much detail not found in the NT, the OT, of course, more to do with Israel, not New Covenant doctrine, at least such doctrine hidden in the OT, is revealed only on hindsight. But you simply picked a large topic volumes could be written about, and have been.
It's the most important study I think I've made, though, at least the most satisfying, as it reveals the unity of the Bible message and the map of God's plan. I think God made it so that we would have to mine that unity, as it takes years to pull some things together that don't come easily. It doesn't seem a topic there can be a general thread about and maintain any stream of thought, as you point out, so much scripture going many directions. It can also turn into a senseless topic, when Preterists and the like come around to deconstruct everything, announcing the Bible doesn't mean what it says, in essence. ("I don't understand it, therefore it's symbolic.") I've had this happen with threads, things degenerating into symbolic fairy tales, to end in thinking, "What was the use of that thread?"
Just take heart your thread hasn't been reduced to grace versus law, yet.
This is a good place to start... figuring out what was made desolate. According to Luke 13:34-35 Jesus made Jerusalem desolate wouldn't you agree?
Luke 13:34-35 KJV
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! [35] Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Next steps are to figure out what "abomination" stood in or in your view will stand in the holy place and what the holy place is. That that was made desolate is no doubt Jerusalem.
Luke 13:34-35 KJV
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! [35] Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Next steps are to figure out what "abomination" stood in or in your view will stand in the holy place and what the holy place is. That that was made desolate is no doubt Jerusalem.
E
lol. Yes it would behove us to figure out what is left desolate Jerusalem. or a holy place (the holy of holy's in the temple)
Dan said the first little horn would do this, and he did, by sacrificing a pig. We have that as an example. of scripture being fulfilled.
Dan 11: [SUP]31 [/SUP]And forces[SUP][j][/SUP] shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.
and if this is not enough, We have Jesus very own words.
Matt 24: [SUP]15 [/SUP]“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[SUP][c][/SUP] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),
Luke 13 is not talking about the abomination which makes desolate. It speaks of a different event occurring for different reasons.
Next....
Dan said the first little horn would do this, and he did, by sacrificing a pig. We have that as an example. of scripture being fulfilled.
Dan 11: [SUP]31 [/SUP]And forces[SUP][j][/SUP] shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.
and if this is not enough, We have Jesus very own words.
Matt 24: [SUP]15 [/SUP]“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[SUP][c][/SUP] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),
Luke 13 is not talking about the abomination which makes desolate. It speaks of a different event occurring for different reasons.
Next....
J
I've long believed the abomination of desolation is, at its heart, another name for the beast, the antichrist, just as world empires are referred to as beasts, that it's a phrase meant to not lend any dignity to the man of sin and rightly characterize him as a desolator. The "holy place" could be none other than the temple, as scripture fills in detail of antichrist in the temple, demanding worship, as well as some animated image of him used as an idol.
Daniel indicates temple worship is resumed in Israel, during the time of Jacob's trouble, and that, in the middle of the seven year covenant period, that covenant is violated, and an image of the antichrist is setup in the temple, to be worshiped, this something that desolates the temple, an idolatrous abomination of devil worship that defiles Judaism in Israel. But an image, of itself, doesn't desolate, rather the man, himself, is the desolator, "for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate." So, the abomination of desolation is a phrase that well fits the antichrist, with this temple idol being setup his crowning achievement, crowning desolation, Satan seeking the worship he's always wanted.
Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-7 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Revelation 13:14-15 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Daniel indicates temple worship is resumed in Israel, during the time of Jacob's trouble, and that, in the middle of the seven year covenant period, that covenant is violated, and an image of the antichrist is setup in the temple, to be worshiped, this something that desolates the temple, an idolatrous abomination of devil worship that defiles Judaism in Israel. But an image, of itself, doesn't desolate, rather the man, himself, is the desolator, "for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate." So, the abomination of desolation is a phrase that well fits the antichrist, with this temple idol being setup his crowning achievement, crowning desolation, Satan seeking the worship he's always wanted.
Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-7 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Revelation 13:14-15 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
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J
An interesting thought about that image, I recall reading somebody who, granted, took some liberties with scripture mentioning how this living image of the beast would fit well the scenario of the antichrist being beamed to peoples' televisions, a televised worship system? This all came about, under the topic of the new "smart" TV sets that may not be that smart to own? For what it's worth, as always, just an interesting thought, "Live, from the temple at Jerusalem, it's time to play Keep That Head!" Or maybe, "Wheel of Misfortune," or how about "Jeopardy!"?