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R
luther actually did not adhere to any particular view on the afterlife...his various ponderings on the subject often contradicted one another...
for example here is what luther wrote about a friend of his..."We are to know that he is blessed and that he has eternal life and eternal joy and participation with Christ in the heavenly Church. For now he has learned, seen with his own eyes, and heard those things which he here in the church on earth explained according to God’s word."...this implies conscious existence and not unconscious sleep...
basically luther never made up his mind about this issue...at least not with certainty...in his lectures on genesis luther said "God did not want us to know this in this life."
here is a good series of blog articles on luther's understanding of the afterlife and some adventists' misappropriation of luther in an effort to validate their views... Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: soul sleep
for example here is what luther wrote about a friend of his..."We are to know that he is blessed and that he has eternal life and eternal joy and participation with Christ in the heavenly Church. For now he has learned, seen with his own eyes, and heard those things which he here in the church on earth explained according to God’s word."...this implies conscious existence and not unconscious sleep...
basically luther never made up his mind about this issue...at least not with certainty...in his lectures on genesis luther said "God did not want us to know this in this life."
here is a good series of blog articles on luther's understanding of the afterlife and some adventists' misappropriation of luther in an effort to validate their views... Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: soul sleep
L
I think you left out the New earth that's where we will be in the end. I believe none of us go to heaven at death but are dead waiting for the resurrection when Jesus comes back. When we are resurrected we spend a 1000 years in heaven with God and the people who did not know Jesus stay dead the 1000s years. I base this off Rev 20:4-6
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Here we have the souls who did not take the mark of the beast in the last days leading up to Jesus's return(post-trib) notice that verse 5 says its the first resurrection.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. So from that we see all those who ''did'' take the mark seem to of died from the brightness of Jesus's coming back (the ones who are evil and see Jesus come back that is) (2Thessalonians 2:8). So it says the rest of the dead(even the ones dead already) will not live again until the 1000s years are over. So this also adds to the understanding that there will be 2 resurrections for the Just and Unjust (Acts 24:15) Then those who did not follow God in their life will take part in the lake of fire witch is the second death.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Here we have the souls who did not take the mark of the beast in the last days leading up to Jesus's return(post-trib) notice that verse 5 says its the first resurrection.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. So from that we see all those who ''did'' take the mark seem to of died from the brightness of Jesus's coming back (the ones who are evil and see Jesus come back that is) (2Thessalonians 2:8). So it says the rest of the dead(even the ones dead already) will not live again until the 1000s years are over. So this also adds to the understanding that there will be 2 resurrections for the Just and Unjust (Acts 24:15) Then those who did not follow God in their life will take part in the lake of fire witch is the second death.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
R
those texts indicate several different definitions for the hebrew word for 'soul'...one uses the word in the sense of a living thing...another uses it in the sense of an individual person...another uses it to refer to the heart of a person...
obviously it can mean different things depending on the context...
obviously it can mean different things depending on the context...
C
Yep, body is not required
2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
. I'm just now learning about SDA. I gotta weed out what is true from what is not.
A
The altar that is front of GOd's throne.
Context, context, context. The setting for the opening of the seals is established 2 chapter earlier:
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. - Revelation 4
This is where John is when the seals are opened, before God's throne. So when the souls of the dead martys are "beneath the alter" we know they are in the or under the throne room of The Lord.
Just go head 2 more chapters and we see:
And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. 3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
I don't know why you persist in ripping scriptures out of context to keep making these points that are not supported by Scripture. The altar is not symbolic. It is actually and literally before the throne of God. The martyrs are not symbolic. They are real born again believers who were killed for their faith. And yet here are their souls, speaking, full aware and conscious. Not asleep.
This one passage alone ends the discussion. The scripture could not be plainer. Will you finally yield and just admit that you are not rightly handling the text? Where is the humility? Where is the fear of The Lord over just winning an argument?
Context, context, context. The setting for the opening of the seals is established 2 chapter earlier:
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. - Revelation 4
This is where John is when the seals are opened, before God's throne. So when the souls of the dead martys are "beneath the alter" we know they are in the or under the throne room of The Lord.
Just go head 2 more chapters and we see:
And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. 3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
I don't know why you persist in ripping scriptures out of context to keep making these points that are not supported by Scripture. The altar is not symbolic. It is actually and literally before the throne of God. The martyrs are not symbolic. They are real born again believers who were killed for their faith. And yet here are their souls, speaking, full aware and conscious. Not asleep.
This one passage alone ends the discussion. The scripture could not be plainer. Will you finally yield and just admit that you are not rightly handling the text? Where is the humility? Where is the fear of The Lord over just winning an argument?
L
A study of the sanctuary will reveal that it is not referring to the altar of incense
Leviticus 4:7
(7) And the priest shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar of sweet incense before the LORD, which is in the tabernacle of the congregation; and shall pour all the blood of the bullock at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
Leviticus 17:11
(11) For the life (soul) of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
These 2 verses show that blood was poured at the bottom of the altar of burnt offering and Revelation 6 souls at the bottom of the altar uses this symbolism. Also there is no altar of burnt offering in heaven so this shows that the Revelation 6 are symbolic.
Leviticus 4:7
(7) And the priest shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar of sweet incense before the LORD, which is in the tabernacle of the congregation; and shall pour all the blood of the bullock at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
Leviticus 17:11
(11) For the life (soul) of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
These 2 verses show that blood was poured at the bottom of the altar of burnt offering and Revelation 6 souls at the bottom of the altar uses this symbolism. Also there is no altar of burnt offering in heaven so this shows that the Revelation 6 are symbolic.
C
Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Safe to say that Stephens "humanity" died but not his spirit?
Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Safe to say that Stephens "humanity" died but not his spirit?
Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.