The dead do not Praise God

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
L

Laodicea

Guest
#41
#41
Laodicea said:
To what did man become subject to as a consequence of sin?
Genesis 2:16-17
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: (17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Click to expand...
With this death waiting for each, what is man's nature?
Job 4:17
Shall mortal man be more just than God? Shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Romans 6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
2 Corinthians 4:11
For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
 
D

dru

Guest
#42
#42
danschance said:
More or less, I agree with you. The one thing I find odd is how the Jehovah's Witness' quote this verse is they never quote it in context.

For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten. 6 Indeed their love, their hate and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun.


The context here is very revealing.

1) "nor have they any longer a reward.." Do they dead not have a reward? Have we not been promised a resurrection and a reward for what we have done here? Of course we have! The dead no longer have a reward among the living.

2) "the memory of them are forgotten." Does God forget about us once we are dead? God remembers everything about us. The memory of the dead fades among the living!

3)"..they no longer have a share under the sun.." Here is a death nail in the coffin of their argument. The context of this whole passage is among the living and under the sun.

They are spiritually blind to the context of this passage by not seeing that is from an earthly perspective "the dead know nothing". Lazarus the beggar and the rich man defiantly knew they we in the realm of the dead. When you look at all the passages in the bible that deal with the after life, this is the only logical conclusion.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#43
#43
God said this
Genesis 2:16-17 KJV
(16) And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
(17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Satan said this
Genesis 3:4 KJV
(4) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Satan lied about death, this lie is still believed today by many.


 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#44
#44
Laodicea said:
God said this
Genesis 2:16-17 KJV
(16) And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
(17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Satan said this
Genesis 3:4 KJV
(4) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Satan lied about death, this lie is still believed today by many.

Click to expand...
Are you speaking of the man (the fleshly being), which we all know shall die?

or

That all souls shall go to the abode of the dead (Hades) until the resurrection, which we all know that the righteous shall never go to again since Jesus delivered them, and us afterwards, from that captivity which was attached to the Law?
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#45
#45
cfultz3 said:
Are you speaking of the man (the fleshly being), which we all know shall die?

or

That all souls shall go to the abode of the dead (Hades) until the resurrection, which we all know that the righteous shall never go to again since Jesus delivered them, and us afterwards, from that captivity which was attached to the Law?
Click to expand...
The Bible nowhere teaches that we have an eternal soul. The Bible never links the two words eternal and soul.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#46
#46
Laodicea said:
The Bible nowhere teaches that we have an eternal soul. The Bible never links the two words eternal and soul.
Click to expand...
It doesn't? Wow, I have been reading the wrong book.....
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#47
#47
cfultz3 said:
It doesn't? Wow, I have been reading the wrong book.....
Click to expand...
Show me just one text that has the two words eternal and soul linked together.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#48
#48
Laodicea said:
Show me just one text that has the two words eternal and soul linked together.
Click to expand...
I cannot. So, I must assume all the Scriptures which state that we continue on after death must all be lies. All those witnesses in Heaven must not be there. Those righteous souls Jesus went to Hades to lead out must all still be there waiting for their Messiah. God must be the God of the dead and we are not alive in Christ. Oh please tell me that I have just made up a bunch of lies. Please tell me all those souls in Heaven giving praise to God for their salvation in Revelation is true. Please tell me that Jesus paid the price in full for my soul not to see death as those under the Law were obligated to see. Oh please give me hope of Life and give me not death.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#50
#50
Oh preacher of death, do you not know that Christ is Life and in Him we live.
 
R

Rock022

Banned
#51
Dec 5, 2012
885
5
0
#51
cfultz3 said:
Oh preacher of death, do you not know that Christ is Life and in Him we live.
Click to expand...
Keep faith my friend, this is just a small theological debate now.

Meditate on this similarities:

Life and death stories both have a Man and a Woman and a three
Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden three (Disobedience)
Mary at the foot of the cross with Jesus (Obedience)
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#52
#52
Rock022 said:
Keep faith my friend, this is just a small theological debate now.

Meditate on this similarities:

Life and death stories both have a Man and a Woman and a three
Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden three (Disobedience)
Mary at the foot of the cross with Jesus (Obedience)
Click to expand...
If my words can show her how she is preaching death and not Life, then my words do edify.
 
S

SPUZIT

Guest
#53
#53
Dear God save us from such discord, I an new here but should or may I ask where is the harmony? I have a son who was killed, a life taken too soon, he was & is a Christian, this topic gives me a sick feeling, maybe I am missing the point but was the post meant to stir up discord or to edify the brothers & sisters in CC.I'm signing out for the night.hope you all can resolve this "conflict" I'll be praying for that,.
 
R

Rock022

Banned
#56
Dec 5, 2012
885
5
0
#56
SPUZIT said:
Dear God save us from such discord, I an new here but should or may I ask where is the harmony? I have a son who was killed, a life taken too soon, he was & is a Christian, this topic gives me a sick feeling, maybe I am missing the point but was the post meant to stir up discord or to edify the brothers & sisters in CC.I'm signing out for the night.hope you all can resolve this "conflict" I'll be praying for that,.
Click to expand...
My apologies, I do not wish for this thread to make any one feel bad, but remember this...
God gave His life for us, that is a lot of love, and you said your son believed in Him.

I "argue" in this thread because many people tell me those who are gone before us do not live. I believe the ones who God chooses live and that is my argument. But some distractions come to be and we can get of course.
 
Last edited:
L

Laodicea

Guest
#57
#57
cfultz3 said:
I cannot. So, I must assume all the Scriptures which state that we continue on after death must all be lies. All those witnesses in Heaven must not be there. Those righteous souls Jesus went to Hades to lead out must all still be there waiting for their Messiah. God must be the God of the dead and we are not alive in Christ. Oh please tell me that I have just made up a bunch of lies. Please tell me all those souls in Heaven giving praise to God for their salvation in Revelation is true. Please tell me that Jesus paid the price in full for my soul not to see death as those under the Law were obligated to see. Oh please give me hope of Life and give me not death.
Click to expand...
You cannot because there is none. People are asleep in the grave until the return of Jesus. Jesus said people are raised on the last day.
John 11:11-14 KJV
(11) These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
(12) Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
(13) Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
(14) Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Even Jesus referred to death as a sleep
John 6:39-40 KJV
(39) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
(40) And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus said that people will be raised up at the last day


 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#58
#58
SPUZIT said:
Dear God save us from such discord, I an new here but should or may I ask where is the harmony? I have a son who was killed, a life taken too soon, he was & is a Christian, this topic gives me a sick feeling, maybe I am missing the point but was the post meant to stir up discord or to edify the brothers & sisters in CC.I'm signing out for the night.hope you all can resolve this "conflict" I'll be praying for that,.
Click to expand...
I am sure we all sympathize with you with your loss. I lost a brother last year who was close to me. He suffered parkinsons disease for the last 14 years of his life. This is a Bible discussion forum and we are discussing the Bible.
 
R

Rock022

Banned
#59
Dec 5, 2012
885
5
0
#59
St. Paul did not say he was going to sleep and wait for the return of Jesus. He wanted to be with Jesus there for he wanted to die. To die is a good thing as we finally can go see Jesus face to face. Death is a gain.

Philippians 1

20 ...Christ will be magnified in my body, whether by life or by death.m
21 For to me life is Christ, and death is gain
22 If I go on living in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. And I do not know which I shall choose.
23 I am caught between the two. I long to depart this life and be with Christ, [for] that is far better.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#60
#60
Rock022 said:
St. Paul did not say he was going to sleep and wait for the return of Jesus. He wanted to be with Jesus there for he wanted to die. To die is a good thing as we finally can go see Jesus face to face. Death is a gain.

Philippians 1

20 ...Christ will be magnified in my body, whether by life or by death.m
21 For to me life is Christ, and death is gain
22 If I go on living in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. And I do not know which I shall choose.
23 I am caught between the two. I long to depart this life and be with Christ, [for] that is far better.
Click to expand...
Paul is not here giving a doctrinal exposition of what happens at death. He is explaining his “desire,” which is to leave his present troubled existence and to be with Christ without reference to a lapse of time that may occur between these two events.

Paul’s words here have to be considered in conjunction with his other related statements where he clearly refers to death as a sleep.
1 Corinthians 15:51 KJV
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1 Thessalonians 4:13-15 KJV
(13) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
(14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring(Lead away) with him.
(15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.


 
You must log in or register to reply here.