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My understanding of John 21 is that Jesus was describing two very different fates, and that Peter was aggrieved.
He was told he would be brutally executed, while John was told he would 'endure'. That doesn't really mean, with the best will in the world, that John would last an extra year or two and then succumb to a similar fate.
But you are welcome to do a study of this passage.
He was told he would be brutally executed, while John was told he would 'endure'. That doesn't really mean, with the best will in the world, that John would last an extra year or two and then succumb to a similar fate.
But you are welcome to do a study of this passage.
Jesus inferred it to be so what should John remain until Jesus returned. I believe this is stating, declaring, John would survive the other Aposstles. Perhaps I understand wrong.
As for Revelation, Joh says he was on th eIsle of Patmos when he received this prophecy. The year of it is rasther moot if the content is true. I believe it is, though I cannot say with certainty tht I understand it all. I can say I believe it, and will await understanding in our Father's good time.
As for Revelation, Joh says he was on th eIsle of Patmos when he received this prophecy. The year of it is rasther moot if the content is true. I believe it is, though I cannot say with certainty tht I understand it all. I can say I believe it, and will await understanding in our Father's good time.
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IMO ....I believe the Holy Spirit is a great author and editor.
Seeking God first should be our priority. There are many historical events that are not written in detail in the holy scripture. For one to ask what caused these chaotic moments, why was he imprisoned,
What caused this to take place? Where was this? Did this really happen and why?
We find out that the bible its self is a great history book of fact and not some fairy tale as some suggest.
God's footprint is all over history given proof of devine intervention and prophetical accuracy.
As a berean see that it isn't so.
Jesus prophetically told of the temples destruction in detail as not one stone upon another.
Did this happen....yes. Exactly as he said. Wow now jesus was not just another holy man but a prophet.
The when, who, why is a historical fact when you take a closer look.
What is not mentioned in the scripture is as important as to what is written.
Opening the eyes of the curious. And those who want to discredit the bible.
Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.
Seeking God first should be our priority. There are many historical events that are not written in detail in the holy scripture. For one to ask what caused these chaotic moments, why was he imprisoned,
What caused this to take place? Where was this? Did this really happen and why?
We find out that the bible its self is a great history book of fact and not some fairy tale as some suggest.
God's footprint is all over history given proof of devine intervention and prophetical accuracy.
As a berean see that it isn't so.
Jesus prophetically told of the temples destruction in detail as not one stone upon another.
Did this happen....yes. Exactly as he said. Wow now jesus was not just another holy man but a prophet.
The when, who, why is a historical fact when you take a closer look.
What is not mentioned in the scripture is as important as to what is written.
Opening the eyes of the curious. And those who want to discredit the bible.
Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.
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The destruction of the temple is mentioned in Matthew 24:1,2:
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
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It was mentioned more times that that. Jesus alluded to it from the beginning of his ministry, and throughout his ministry.
Luke 2.34 Then Simeon blessed them and said to Mary, his mother: “This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against, 35 so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. And a sword will pierce your own soul too.”
Luke 19.41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”
Luke 2.34 Then Simeon blessed them and said to Mary, his mother: “This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against, 35 so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. And a sword will pierce your own soul too.”
Luke 19.41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”
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Tis there. Truly. It's the 6th seal event.
Revelation 1:19
Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter
Just like Daniel's visions included past, present (from his perspective, now our past), and future. So did John's visions. Daniel was alive during Babylon and yet Babylon (his present) was included in Daniel's visions. Likewise, John saw a timeline of events that included events that passed prior to his vision and events he was currently living through. At least the first 6 seals of chapter 6 were past events when John saw them.
The first 5 seals correspond to the first 5 events Messiah prophesied during the olivet discourse:
John's vision compared to Messiah's prophecy
1st Seal (Conquering Horseman) = False Christs
2nd Seal (Horseman takes away peace) = Wars & Rumors of wars
3rd Seal (Balances horseman) = Famine
4th Seal (Death) = Pestilences
...You'll notice that the 5th event Messiah mentions in the Olivet Discourse is His apostles' persecution and death for their testimony. Likewise, the 5th seal is the martyrdom of God's servants.
5th Seal (Martyrdom) = Death of Messiah's disciples
...The very next event mentioned in Messiah's prophecy, the 6th event, is the "abomination of desolation" (Matthew 24). In Luke 21 it's described as "when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies know that its desolation is neigh". Meanwhile, the 6th seal is described as "the wrath of the lamb" which includes heavenly signs, earthquakes, and the kings and captains say to the rocks, "fall on us and hide us".
6th Seal (Lamb's wrath) = Destruction of Jerusalem (desolation)
...Notice that the Messiah is the one who pronounces desolation on the city as judgment.
Matthew 23:37-39
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling!
38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.
39 For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’
...The Desolation was the Messiah's wrath. Next, notice how the events described in the 6th seal perfectly link to other passages...
Revelation 6:15-17
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
..."Say to the mountains fall on us and hide us".
Luke 23:28-30 (crucifixion)
28 And having turned to them, Jesus said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children.
29 For behold, the days are coming in which they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never did bear, and breasts that never nursed.’
30 Then ‘they will begin to say to the mountains, “Fall upon us,” and to the hills, “Cover us.”’
..."Blessed are those who do not have children in those days".
Luke 21:20-23
20 And when you see Jerusalem being encircled by armies, then know that her desolation has drawn near.
21Then those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains; and those in her midst, let them depart out; and those in the countries, let them not enter into her.
22 For these are the days of vengeance, to fulfill all things having been written.
23 But woe to those having in womb, and to the ones nursing in those days. For there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people.
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Everything perfectly lines up. So when were the Messiah's apostles killed in history? Well, all except John were killed in the 1st century prior to 70 AD. This is the key marker in time. We know when his servants were martyred. So even history is another witness to all of this. The 6th seal event of Revelation 6 is the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple...but let's continue...
...The very next event that Messiah predicts in Matthew 24 - after the destruction of Jerusalem - is the start of the days of great tribulation (which are only cut short because of the elect). Well, notice that the very next scene in Revelation 7 - after the breaking of the 6th seal in chapter 6 - is the marking of the 144,000 Israelites and a great multitude from every nation that is literally said to come out of great tribulation.
The Sealed Israelites from Revelation 7 = The Elect of Matthew 24
...Next, notice how "the elect" of Matthew 24 links to The remnant of Israel according to the ELECTion of grace in Romans 11, and how the suffering of Israel equals the blessings and wealth of the nations.
Romans 11:5-7, 11-12, 27
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
27 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles come in
The Great Multitude of every nation seen in Revelation 7 = The gentile believers grafted into the root
...Finally, notice how the same exact thing is said during Messiah's Olivet Discourse regarding the wrath against His people
Luke 21:24 [brackets mine]
24 And [Jews] shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Conclusion:
The Great Tribulation of the Jews = The Church Age & Time of the Gentiles
Revelation 1:19
Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter
Just like Daniel's visions included past, present (from his perspective, now our past), and future. So did John's visions. Daniel was alive during Babylon and yet Babylon (his present) was included in Daniel's visions. Likewise, John saw a timeline of events that included events that passed prior to his vision and events he was currently living through. At least the first 6 seals of chapter 6 were past events when John saw them.
The first 5 seals correspond to the first 5 events Messiah prophesied during the olivet discourse:
John's vision compared to Messiah's prophecy
1st Seal (Conquering Horseman) = False Christs
2nd Seal (Horseman takes away peace) = Wars & Rumors of wars
3rd Seal (Balances horseman) = Famine
4th Seal (Death) = Pestilences
...You'll notice that the 5th event Messiah mentions in the Olivet Discourse is His apostles' persecution and death for their testimony. Likewise, the 5th seal is the martyrdom of God's servants.
5th Seal (Martyrdom) = Death of Messiah's disciples
...The very next event mentioned in Messiah's prophecy, the 6th event, is the "abomination of desolation" (Matthew 24). In Luke 21 it's described as "when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies know that its desolation is neigh". Meanwhile, the 6th seal is described as "the wrath of the lamb" which includes heavenly signs, earthquakes, and the kings and captains say to the rocks, "fall on us and hide us".
6th Seal (Lamb's wrath) = Destruction of Jerusalem (desolation)
...Notice that the Messiah is the one who pronounces desolation on the city as judgment.
Matthew 23:37-39
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling!
38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.
39 For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’
...The Desolation was the Messiah's wrath. Next, notice how the events described in the 6th seal perfectly link to other passages...
Revelation 6:15-17
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
..."Say to the mountains fall on us and hide us".
Luke 23:28-30 (crucifixion)
28 And having turned to them, Jesus said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children.
29 For behold, the days are coming in which they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never did bear, and breasts that never nursed.’
30 Then ‘they will begin to say to the mountains, “Fall upon us,” and to the hills, “Cover us.”’
..."Blessed are those who do not have children in those days".
Luke 21:20-23
20 And when you see Jerusalem being encircled by armies, then know that her desolation has drawn near.
21Then those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains; and those in her midst, let them depart out; and those in the countries, let them not enter into her.
22 For these are the days of vengeance, to fulfill all things having been written.
23 But woe to those having in womb, and to the ones nursing in those days. For there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people.
-----
Everything perfectly lines up. So when were the Messiah's apostles killed in history? Well, all except John were killed in the 1st century prior to 70 AD. This is the key marker in time. We know when his servants were martyred. So even history is another witness to all of this. The 6th seal event of Revelation 6 is the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple...but let's continue...
...The very next event that Messiah predicts in Matthew 24 - after the destruction of Jerusalem - is the start of the days of great tribulation (which are only cut short because of the elect). Well, notice that the very next scene in Revelation 7 - after the breaking of the 6th seal in chapter 6 - is the marking of the 144,000 Israelites and a great multitude from every nation that is literally said to come out of great tribulation.
The Sealed Israelites from Revelation 7 = The Elect of Matthew 24
...Next, notice how "the elect" of Matthew 24 links to The remnant of Israel according to the ELECTion of grace in Romans 11, and how the suffering of Israel equals the blessings and wealth of the nations.
Romans 11:5-7, 11-12, 27
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
27 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles come in
The Great Multitude of every nation seen in Revelation 7 = The gentile believers grafted into the root
...Finally, notice how the same exact thing is said during Messiah's Olivet Discourse regarding the wrath against His people
Luke 21:24 [brackets mine]
24 And [Jews] shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Conclusion:
The Great Tribulation of the Jews = The Church Age & Time of the Gentiles
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You make many very interesting points Yahshua. You have thrown me a curve-ball. Thinking about what you say and where you are paralleling Luke 21, Matt 24 and the seals.
19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
I had always understood this as 1) Jesus talking to John 2) Jesus's letters to the Churches 3) The contents of the seals
19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
I had always understood this as 1) Jesus talking to John 2) Jesus's letters to the Churches 3) The contents of the seals
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Jesus mentioned the destruction of the temple often, that means that what we are to learn from it is very important. What we are to learn is that the earthly temple symbolized that we are now the temple. When the body of Christ died, but he was resurrected then the earthly temple was destroyed (in AD70), and the spiritual temple became alive.
The body contains the spirit of the Lord. When we study all about the earthly temple, we learn how the spiritual temple (us) is as the temple of God.
The body contains the spirit of the Lord. When we study all about the earthly temple, we learn how the spiritual temple (us) is as the temple of God.
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Do you think that the things in the seven sealed scroll were opened and looked upon prior to the Lamb being slain? Your explanation of it's contents has it being opened(loosed) and explained(looked upon by men) prior to the Lamb being slain by Jesus at the OD. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/5.htm