The Divine Equation

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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#21
Nov 12, 2015
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#21
I do believe that the men and the talents shows that He expects a return. He wants to see fruit.
But I also think the moment I think I am the one growing the fruit, that I have gone wrong...
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#22
Nov 12, 2015
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#22
I wish I didn't have to go right now. I'd like to hear more of what you are trying to say before I rush to a kneejerk judgement...I'll be back to read later.
 
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DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#23
Jan 6, 2018
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#23
Stunnedbygrace said:
I don't think that's his drift at all...I'd have to hear more.
I think he is talking more about, for instance, the men and the talents. Or...being saved but as if through fire. (Who wants that?)
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He is talking about polar opposite messages to truth or that truth is schizophrenic.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#24
Nov 12, 2015
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#24
DevotiontoBible said:
He is talking about polar opposite messages to truth or that truth is schizophrenic.
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I don't think so...it may have been my first reaction too.
I think he is rather talking about the possibility of getting lopsided by not taking with every verse, the verses that SEEM to contradict it...truthfully, we've all noted this, haven't we?
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#25
Mar 13, 2014
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Tennessee
#25
Latour said:
I guess it's inevitable that more than one person sees the truth! :);)
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That is usually par for the course in the Bible Discussion Forum, people perceive to see the truth but at times their truth is different than the Truth.
 
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DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#26
Jan 6, 2018
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#26
Latour said:
But you are staying on the same side of the equation by not seeing the other side of the truth. So you are right about THAT side of the truth. but...if you don't keep the righteous requirements of the law...then you are a law breaker not a righteous person.
Paul said what he meant. A righteous man fulfills the purpose of the law.
A saint fulfills the law of Christ.
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You are misinterpreting Ro 2:13 since Paul never said anyone has been justified by keeping the law.
 
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DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#28
Jan 6, 2018
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#28
Stunnedbygrace said:
I don't think so...it may have been my first reaction too.
I think he is rather talking about the possibility of getting lopsided by not taking with every verse, the verses that SEEM to contradict it...truthfully, we've all noted this, haven't we?
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Two polar opposite ends of a magnet don't seem to contradict each other they ACTUALLY CONTRADICT each other.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#29
Nov 12, 2015
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#29
The letter of the law is: don't shoot anyone to death.
The law of Christ is: if you even have anger in your heart without cause, you have already murdered.

I have not found that He allows me to murder but speaks with me about it and changes my mind from the letter to the spirit that gives life.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#35
Nov 12, 2015
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#35
Okay, you are not willing to listen to more than a few sentences from a man before you pass judgement on what he is trying to convey.
I'm going to have to drop this conversation with you. I would like to hear more and I always want to give every man a chance, and you are just being nutty and refusing to let him explain himself and his thoughts. Be back to read more later.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#36
Sep 4, 2012
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#36
Latour said:
All truth is this way. Not just Paul. But an example of Paul presenting this kind of polarity is the distinction between no flesh being justified by doing the law (Rom. 3:20)

"because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." Rom 3:20

and the seeming opposite statement...

"for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified." Rom. 2:13
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In the first instance Paul stated a fact. In the second he made a rhetorical point regarding those who were under the law, which has nothing to do with anyone under the new covenant. Context is the key.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#37
Nov 12, 2015
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#37
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
In the first instance Paul stated a fact. In the second he made a rhetorical point regarding those who were under the law, which has nothing to do with anyone under the new covenant. Context is the key.
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Paul was making a rhetorical point when he basically said, hearing doesn't mean righteousness but DOING what you hear means righteousness.

It's like our saying: talk is cheap.
 
Latour

Latour

Active member
#38
Jun 11, 2018
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#38
DevotiontoBible said:
He is talking about polar opposite messages to truth or that truth is schizophrenic.
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Not so much really. Here is a balance of statements...

"The soul that sins it shall die!". Now, is that true?

"And...the gift of God (apart from what you have done) is life in Christ Jesus". Is that true?

So which one is more true than the other?

Are they not both held together in Romans 8? "IF you put to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit, then you shall live!" But if you do the deeds of the body you shall die.
 
Latour

Latour

Active member
#39
Jun 11, 2018
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#39
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
In the first instance Paul stated a fact. In the second he made a rhetorical point regarding those who were under the law, which has nothing to do with anyone under the new covenant. Context is the key.
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Again... (as is common without this understanding) you are staying on the same side of the equation and negating half the truth. (not knowingly of course) Doers of the law are indeed justified. The fact is that grace enables us to do just that. (Fulfill the law) Faith without works is dead....or...only half the truth. The works prove the equation. :)

The truth is alive in the person of Christ. We aren't saved until the life from heaven kicks in. Or until we are walking in the same power that raised Jesus from the dead. THAT is what the new covenant is about. So then when we walk in that kind of life we don't need to reason away the law amd it's righteous requirements. We are not saved by a limited understanding of a verse that negates the truth contained in other verses. (I hope that makes sense to you) :)
 
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DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#40
Jan 6, 2018
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#40
Latour said:
Not so much really. Here is a balance of statements...

"The soul that sins it shall die!". Now, is that true?

"And...the gift of God (apart from what you have done) is life in Christ Jesus". Is that true?

So which one is more true than the other?

Are they not both held together in Romans 8? "IF you put to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit, then you shall live!" But if you do the deeds of the body you shall die.
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Let us stay on your Romans claim first You are comparing apples to oranges since Paul said everyone has broken the law but he never said anyone has kept the law to be justified by it. There is no polar opposite by Paul in those two verses.
 
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