Please show me what verse in the Word of God tells us that "The Tribulation and the Great Tribulation" are for the unbelieving and the ungodly??? Show me some scripture. Prove me wrong. Put your scripture where your mouth is. Telling me anything about what the Word Of God say without quotture proves nothing at all and the undisputed truth is that a doctrine or belief without scripture to back up the belief is a FALSE TEACHING.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: FOR THAT DAY (Resurrection day) SHALL NOT COME, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, AND THE MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION. THE SON OF PERDITION IS THE ANTICHRIST.
I am not afraid of changing what I believe the Bible says but I need scripture that proves me wrong. Please keep it in your mind that I sit here with my research book beside me and before I do any replies I research my answer first before I reply
Those who believe and teach that the Lord is going to keep His promise by first putting His bride through His wrath and then gathering them, are not truly believing that Jesus already experience God's wrath, satisfying it completely. Since this is the truth, then the wrath that all believers deserve has been satisfied. God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer and therefore, we cannot and will not go through the time of God's wrath. If that were to happen, then the wrath that Jesus experienced would have been for nothing.
The reason that many believe and claim that the church is going to be present on the earth during the time of God's wrath, is because they don't understand the principle of what I just explained above and they don't understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath. With just the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet, over half of the earths population will have been killed within that first 3 1/2 years and that is not including the fatalities that will result from trumpets 1,2 and 3, nor the fatalities resulting from the bowl judgments. Jesus described what the condition of the world would be when He returns to the earth to end the age saying"
Please don't tell me about false teachings unless you can produce scripture that proves that a Pre-Tribulation doctrine is proven by scripture.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: FOR THAT DAY (Resurrection day) SHALL NOT COME, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, AND THE MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION. THE SON OF PERDITION IS THE ANTICHRIST.
I am not afraid of changing what I believe the Bible says but I need scripture that proves me wrong. Please keep it in your mind that I sit here with my research book beside me and before I do any replies I research my answer first before I reply
Those who believe and teach that the Lord is going to keep His promise by first putting His bride through His wrath and then gathering them, are not truly believing that Jesus already experience God's wrath, satisfying it completely. Since this is the truth, then the wrath that all believers deserve has been satisfied. God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer and therefore, we cannot and will not go through the time of God's wrath. If that were to happen, then the wrath that Jesus experienced would have been for nothing.
The reason that many believe and claim that the church is going to be present on the earth during the time of God's wrath, is because they don't understand the principle of what I just explained above and they don't understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath. With just the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet, over half of the earths population will have been killed within that first 3 1/2 years and that is not including the fatalities that will result from trumpets 1,2 and 3, nor the fatalities resulting from the bowl judgments. Jesus described what the condition of the world would be when He returns to the earth to end the age saying"
Please don't tell me about false teachings unless you can produce scripture that proves that a Pre-Tribulation doctrine is proven by scripture.
I already did produce scriptural proof in the last post. If you can't understand the meaning of the church not being appointed to suffer God's wrath and therefore not going through it, then I don't know how else to get the point across. According to your version, you have the Lord beating up His bride first and then coming to get her. You have the church being punished with the wicked.
The gist of the pre-tribulation (wrath of God) gathering of the church, is that because Jesus already experienced God's wrath, then the wrath of God no longer rests upon the believer and will not enter into that time of wrath. Get it?! Is that clear enough for you? And since God's wrath begins after the opening of the first seal, then the church must be removed prior to that first seal being opened.
So Show me some scriptural proof. Prove me wrong. Put your scripture where your mouth is.
You keep speaking of a period of "seven of wrath" , show me the scripture where it tells us that there will be seven years of the wrath of God
You keep speaking of a period of "seven of wrath" , show me the scripture where it tells us that there will be seven years of the wrath of God
I am not afraid of changing what I believe the Bible says but I need scripture that proves me wrong. Please keep it in your mind that I sit here with my research book beside me and before I do any replies I research my answer first before I reply
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How about scripture from the book of Daniel.
Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
The above prophecy has never been fulfilled to date, and is still yet in our future. I submit to you that the horn in verse 21 is that antichrist, the war spoken of in this same verse is the great tribulation.
Verse 22 is talking about Resurrection day and we all know that when Resurrection day come we will all possessed the kingdom.
So the big question is "what saints will the horn/antichrist be making war against??? Is it us or will it be those left behind??? If it is those left behind where is the scripture that proves there is a second chance to be saved. I Have never found any scripture that re-enforces a pre- tribulation doctrine.
How about scripture from the book of Daniel.
Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
The above prophecy has never been fulfilled to date, and is still yet in our future. I submit to you that the horn in verse 21 is that antichrist, the war spoken of in this same verse is the great tribulation.
Verse 22 is talking about Resurrection day and we all know that when Resurrection day come we will all possessed the kingdom.
So the big question is "what saints will the horn/antichrist be making war against??? Is it us or will it be those left behind??? If it is those left behind where is the scripture that proves there is a second chance to be saved. I Have never found any scripture that re-enforces a pre- tribulation doctrine.
Verse 22 is talking about Resurrection day and we all know that when Resurrection day come we will all possessed the kingdom.
Verse 22 is not referring to the Resurrection day, but is referring to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. Prior to the Lord's return to the earth, His wrath must be completed, which would mean that the church would have to go through the entire wrath of God. But as I continue to make known to you, believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath. Therefore, we must removed prior to God's wrath. The church will posses the kingdom during the millennial kingdom.
So the big question is "what saints will the horn/antichrist be making war against??? Is it us or will it be those left behind??? If it is those left behind where is the scripture that proves there is a second chance to be saved.
In for support of the church being gathered prior to God's wrath, in Rev.19:6-8 the bride/church is revealed to be in heaven attending the wedding of the Lamb and will be receiving her fine linen, white and clean. Then in Rev.19:14, we see the bride/church wearing her fine linen and following the Lord out of heaven to the earth riding on white horses. We also have scripture in Revelation 17:14 showing the church returning with the Lord to the earth to fight against all of the nations at Armageddon:
The wedding of the Lamb to His bride the church which takes place in heaven during the tribulation period
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“Hallelujah!
For our Lord God, the Almighty, reigns.
Let us rejoice and be glad
and give Him the glory.
For the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and His bride has made herself ready.
She was given clothing of fine linen,
bright and pure.”
After the wedding of the Lamb, the bride/church follows the Lord out of heaven riding on white horses:
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The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses.
Revelation 17:14 supports the bride/church returning to the earth with the Lord:
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They (beast and ten kings) will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
Those "called, chosen and faithful followers, will be the bride/church, all of those who will have been changed and caught up prior to the time of God's wrath
The gathering of the church is a separate event from the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. The church will be removed prior to that first seal being opened.
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