The doctrine of entire sanctification.

[justbyfaith]

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Rom 5:19, For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Mat 5:6, Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Mat 5:20, For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

(cont'd from #19)

 

[Ogom]

#12 / @Gideon300

I agree with most of what you said. great post. I would add only:

"Thy will be done, Th y Kingdom come on Earth as it is in Heaven"

we of the Earth -- humans -- asking that the Kingdom come -- to Earth -- to Us.

as we overcome -- the Kingdom is coming true. we can help or hinder. helping is / can be described in many ways -- which also the Bible describes the many ways... in many passages.

that there would be/could be any stopping of the Kingdom somehow if we more and more follow Jesus Christ does not really make sense if you think about -- outside of given to us by other Men Mind Boxes (i.e. dOcTrInEs & DoGmAs) but instead just logically and maybe the help of the Spirit also always in seeking what might be true -- not just the 'accepted' - already - thought- up- things.

God's thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways/thoughts higher and much brighter than our own ways/thoughts.

I see I may have quoted the verse wrong though. here is another:

Matthew 3:2
and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near."

 

[justbyfaith]

@Gideon300,

re: #12.

I think that when our will is conformed to His will, that doing what we want will be according to His will.

If we delight ourselves in the LORD, He will give us the desires of our heart (Psalms 37:4).

So, when we delight ourselves in Him, our desires change so that what we want is conformed to what He wants.

Therefore, if what I want to do is identified as "self", that would indicate that self is not always sinful.

Self is only sinful when it is an outcropping of the flesh.

Otherwise you have the doctrines of Buddhism, where you are trying to get rid of all desire.

Desire is not always bad.

It can be good if it has been transformed and sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

For example, as a born again believer, I desire to see other people born again.

If I work to accomplish that desire, am I therefore selfish?

I think that in evangelizing, I am doing the thing that I want to do.

However, because it is motivated by the love of the Holy Spirit, as God has changed my desires so that they are conformed to His, doing what I want to do ends up being the will of the Lord.

 

[PennEd]

Praying for you, @Adstar.

You have an opportunity to practice your "total sanctification" RIGHT NOW.

Have EVER been a past member on this site? Lying would definitely qualify as sin, wouldn't you say?

Oh. And no answer is actually an answer.

 

[mailmandan]

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[Adstar]

justbyfaith proclaimed in his post..

the doctrine of entire sanctification

Denoting that becoming a finished, entire, Saint was a process.. A process that requiored one to achieve a sinless state in the flesh..

You know this religous POV is exactly the Religous POV i was taught as a Child in a catholic home.. That the only people who could be called Saints.. Real Saints where people who had through disapline and self denial achieved a Sinless state of perfection in their lives on earth...

Other people where failures if they sinned and their place with Jesus was in doubt because they where not Good Enough.. They would have to do years and years suffering in pergatory having to pay for their sins by suffering in pergatory.. So much so that we where encouraged to pray prayers for our dead relatives my Grandma and Grandpa so that their time in purgatory would be shortened...

Now we have justby faith preaching a catholic inspired doctrine with the same tune.. But then he admits he is still a sinner and still sins..... If the indwelling of the Holy Spirit allows us to overcome our sinning as justbyfaith is preaching then the only conclusion is that justbyfaith having been given the power to cease sin is choosing not to cease sin and thus by his own preaching is sinning Willfully.. and you know what the scriptures say about those who sin wilfully?

Hebrews 10:
26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

1) So if the doctrine of justbyfaith is true and He has been granted the ability / power through Jesus to chose to cease to sin.. And he has already admited that he still sins.. Which he has done in this thread.. Then there is no more sacrafice for sins covering him because he has wilfully sinned..

2) But if the indweling of the Holy Spirit does not give people the power to cease sinning and we need the Atonement of the LORD Jesus to cover both our sins before we where saved and our sins of the future untill we pass into eternity.. Then sinners who believe Jesus and trust in His atonement will be Redeemed from the lake of fire..

But since justbyfaith does not really believe in salation just by faith.. Then he is doomed both ways, 1) beacuse he has failed to do what he preaches and 2) Because he does not believe salvation is a true gift from Jesus by His atonement that covers all our sins in our life times. He believes in a catholic Sainthood achieved by performance in sin elimination not just by faith in what Jesus did on the cross..

 

[Adstar]

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

More like self delusion..

 

[p_rehbein]

one (1) o n e uno thing you lack." go and sell a l l you have to the poor and come and f o l l o w Me"

"One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.”

How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 24And the disciples were astonished at his words.

What does your statement have to do with mine?

 

[p_rehbein]

What I am claiming is that there is a certain victory over sinful behaviour that we can have if we lay a hold of some of the promises that can be found in the OP.

What our salvation does is "free us" from the chains of sin..... IF that is all you are saying, then ok. But your OP paints a far different picture.

Blood bought, born again believers will sin at one time or another in their life walk, and that is because we are all human. However, the difference is that as Christians, we are not "enslaved" to those sins, or a sin filled life. All we need do is acknowledge our slip/failure to God, ask His forgiveness, and strive to not sin......

New Christians, those that sup on milk and honey are far more to slip than mature/spiritual Christians. As we grow and mature in our life walk with Jesus, we are better able to avoid the "slips" in our lives. Sanctified/spiritually mature Christians are able to do this.

BUT, no one in human form will live a "perfect/sin free" life while on this earth. Any who say they do are lying. Scripture says that.

 

[p_rehbein]

I do not claim that we can ever be sinless.

Perfect, yes (Hebrews 10:14 (kjv)). Sinless, no (1 John 1:8).

I thought I made that clear with the beginning statements of the OP.

Well, you did not, because I read it as if you were saying you were sinless.

See: problem you have is that "perfect" is "living sinless/without sin" in ones life. One can NOT be perfect and sin........

 

[justbyfaith]

Praise God that someone disagrees!

It indicates that the doctrine is actually sound (2 Timothy 4:3).

No one ever said that the truth would be popular.

2Ti 4:3, For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

@Dino246, it seems to be a pattern with you that you tend to disagree with holy scripture.

 

[justbyfaith]

You have an opportunity to practice your "total sanctification" RIGHT NOW.

Have EVER been a past member on this site? Lying would definitely qualify as sin, wouldn't you say?

Oh. And no answer is actually an answer.

Not that I remember.

I have been on a number of Christian websites; but I believe that I am new to this one.

 

[Dino246]

@Dino246, it seems to be a pattern with you that you tend to disagree with holy scripture.

Any other personal comments you care to make, while you're slandering me anyway?

 

[justbyfaith]

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

It is His righteousness, not my own.

Gal 2:20, I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Any time Jesus is living His life in me and through me, it is going to be a perfect life that is lived.

It is when I take back the control of my life that I get in trouble and end up sinning.

 

[justbyfaith]

Denoting that becoming a finished, entire, Saint was a process.. A process that requiored one to achieve a sinless state in the flesh..

You have again misrepresented my position. I do not say that we become "sinless". Read the OP one more time.

 

[justbyfaith]

Now we have justby faith preaching a catholic inspired doctrin

It is a Bible-inspired doctrine.

 

[justbyfaith]

But then he admits he is still a sinner and still sins....

I have admitted that I have sinned since placing my faith in Jesus and that I have indwelling sin....there is a difference.

I generally walk in freedom and victory these days because of the promises that were mentioned in the OP.

 

[justbyfaith]

But since justbyfaith does not really believe in salation just by faith.. Then he is doomed both ways, 1) beacuse he has failed to do what he preaches and 2) Because he does not believe salvation is a true gift from Jesus by His atonement that covers all our sins in our life times

I actually do believe in that, #(2).

Our salvation is not dependent on our walking in perfection.

But walking in perfection is an added bonus when we receive the second benefit (2 Corinthians 1:15); so that the sharing of our faith might become effectual (Philemon 1:6).

 

[justbyfaith]

What our salvation does is "free us" from the chains of sin..... IF that is all you are saying, then ok. But your OP paints a far different picture.

Blood bought, born again believers will sin at one time or another in their life walk, and that is because we are all human. However, the difference is that as Christians, we are not "enslaved" to those sins, or a sin filled life. All we need do is acknowledge our slip/failure to God, ask His forgiveness, and strive to not sin......

New Christians, those that sup on milk and honey are far more to slip than mature/spiritual Christians. As we grow and mature in our life walk with Jesus, we are better able to avoid the "slips" in our lives. Sanctified/spiritually mature Christians are able to do this.

BUT, no one in human form will live a "perfect/sin free" life while on this earth. Any who say they do are lying. Scripture says that.

See John 8:34 (kjv).

If anyone commits sin they become a slave of sin.

So, if we have been set free, we are not going to commit individual sins in the manner of our former addictions; because if we did, we would again be enslaved to those addictions.

 

[justbyfaith]

Well, you did not, because I read it as if you were saying you were sinless.

See: problem you have is that "perfect" is "living sinless/without sin" in ones life. One can NOT be perfect and sin........

Read the OP again.

You will see that I have in the OP unequivocally rejected the idea that we become sinless when we are sanctified wholly.