The early church didn't gather on the first day of the week...

[SeaBass]

People have to work. Some people have to travel miles to get to work. It must have been hard during the time of Jesus. Paul would preach every Sabbath because six days is for work but the seventh day belongs to the LORD. It's the time He set aside for His people to put down their tools of trade and come from far and near to hear the word of God and fellowship. Listen.

Acts 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

Paul was preaching on Sabbath and the Gentiles wanted more but they have to work so they asked Paul to teach them again the next Sabbath. Why not just tell Paul to come back Sunday and teach the them? If the Sabbath was changed to Sunday this would have been the perfect time to say something but he didn't because the Sabbath wasn't changed.

Now the Gentiles left church on Sabbath and went out all week during their travels and working and invited people to come to church on Sabbath because the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to here the word of God.

Acts 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

Jesus never once talked about Sunday as being special or that the Sabbath would change to Sunday. If Jesus didn't teach it then Paul is not teaching it. Remember, Acts was long after Jesus' death and resurrection and they were still gathering on Sabbath and they were still calling it the Sabbath.

But none of the texts your provided said Paul kept the Sabbath Day because the OT required him to keep it. Paul simply preached on the Sabbath and did not rest on the Sabbath as the OT law required.

Acts 20:7 "And upon the first day of the week, (Sunday) when the disciples came together (passive voice - brought together by God) to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

This is the corporal worship of Act 20:7 required by God meeting on the first day of the week, Sunday to take the Lord's Supper that Paul kept. No NT verses says Paul kept the Sabbath Day because the law of Moses required it of him.


Again, if circumcision is nothing/avails nothing then keeping the Sabbath day is nothing/avails nothing.

 

[posthuman]

i think someone said "give it a rest"

 

[SeaBass]

Do you stay home all week since Jesus is your Sabbath?

You are misinterpreting the verse and grabbing at straws to do away with something that will never be done away with. Jesus walked everywhere on the Sabbath. Are you saying Jesus sinned? Stop kicking against the goads and come out of Babylon. The truth will never change so don't try.

Christ NEVER required Christians to keep the Sabbath Day or remain home on the Sabbath Day.

Do you leave home on the Sabbath Day since you think this OT law is still binding?

 

[Scuba]

But none of the texts your provided said Paul kept the Sabbath Day because the OT required him to keep it. Paul simply preached on the Sabbath and did not rest on the Sabbath as the OT law required.

Acts 20:7 "And upon the first day of the week, (Sunday) when the disciples came together (passive voice - brought together by God) to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

This is the corporal worship of Act 20:7 required by God meeting on the first day of the week, Sunday to take the Lord's Supper that Paul kept. No NT verses says Paul kept the Sabbath Day because the law of Moses required it of him.


Again, if circumcision is nothing/avails nothing then keeping the Sabbath day is nothing/avails nothing.

Uncirumcision means nothing too.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Remember, anything you do with a meritorious mindset is bondage even not stealing, not killing, not committing adultery and so on.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

But none of the texts your provided said Paul kept the Sabbath Day because the OT required him to keep it. Paul simply preached on the Sabbath and did not rest on the Sabbath as the OT law required.

Acts 20:7 "And upon the first day of the week, (Sunday) when the disciples came together (passive voice - brought together by God) to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

This is the corporal worship of Act 20:7 required by God meeting on the first day of the week, Sunday to take the Lord's Supper that Paul kept. No NT verses says Paul kept the Sabbath Day because the law of Moses required it of him.


Again, if circumcision is nothing/avails nothing then keeping the Sabbath day is nothing/avails nothing.

I have a very very different understanding of Acts 20:7. In context, you must understand verse 6. Here is both:

Act 20:6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Verse 7 break down in Strong's: 1) the word "day" is in italics, meaning the translators added the word since there is no word for "day" in the Greek.
2) the word "Week" is Strong's G4521
σάββατον
sabbaton
sab'-bat-on
Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

LXX related word(s)
H7676 shabat
H7677 shabbaton

H7676
שׁבּת
shabbâth
shab-bawth'
Intensive from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath.

LXX related word(s)
G372 ana pausis
G1442 hebdomos
G4315 pro sabbaton
G4521 sabbaton

H7677
שׁבּתון
shabbâthôn
shab-baw-thone'
From H7676; a sabbatism or special holiday: - rest, sabbath.

LXX related word(s)
G4521 sabbaton

Verse 7 of Acts 20 is referring to the counting of Sabbaths after the Feast of Unleavened Bread. There is first Sabbath, second Sabbath, third Sabbath, fourth Sabbath, fifth Sabbath, sixth Sabbath and 7th Sabbath plus 1 day is Pentecost/Shavuot.

I know in our Greek mind set and in our culture, the first day of the week is Sunday. But the Bible and NT were not written in our culture, it was written in their culture, which is very different from ours. Their culture, at sundown started a new day. Their culture, the Sabbath was a sign of who you belong to...you belong to the Creator of all the universe and His name is Yahwey. Their culture, they kept the Feasts of the Lord (note these are not Feasts of the Jews for God gave them to all Israel). Thus, we find in Acts 20:7 Christians using inappropriately the phrase to fit into their life of disobedience of not keeping the Sabbath Day Holy as God commanded. They have fallen into Satan's one best lie. It's not too late to receive truth, unlearn false doctrine and walk in obedience to all the Word. Shalom to all.

 

[SeaBass]

Uncirumcision means nothing too.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Remember, anything you do with a meritorious mindset is bondage even not stealing, not killing, not committing adultery and so on.

Under the law of Moses circumcision meant something but under the NT gospel it means nothing if one is circumcised or is uncircumcised.

 

[SeaBass]

I have a very very different understanding of Acts 20:7. In context, you must understand verse 6. Here is both:

Act 20:6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Verse 7 break down in Strong's: 1) the word "day" is in italics, meaning the translators added the word since there is no word for "day" in the Greek.
2) the word "Week" is Strong's G4521
σάββατον
sabbaton
sab'-bat-on
Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

LXX related word(s)
H7676 shabat
H7677 shabbaton

H7676
שׁבּת
shabbâth
shab-bawth'
Intensive from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath.

LXX related word(s)
G372 ana pausis
G1442 hebdomos
G4315 pro sabbaton
G4521 sabbaton

H7677
שׁבּתון
shabbâthôn
shab-baw-thone'
From H7676; a sabbatism or special holiday: - rest, sabbath.

LXX related word(s)
G4521 sabbaton

Verse 7 of Acts 20 is referring to the counting of Sabbaths after the Feast of Unleavened Bread. There is first Sabbath, second Sabbath, third Sabbath, fourth Sabbath, fifth Sabbath, sixth Sabbath and 7th Sabbath plus 1 day is Pentecost/Shavuot.

I know in our Greek mind set and in our culture, the first day of the week is Sunday. But the Bible and NT were not written in our culture, it was written in their culture, which is very different from ours. Their culture, at sundown started a new day. Their culture, the Sabbath was a sign of who you belong to...you belong to the Creator of all the universe and His name is Yahwey. Their culture, they kept the Feasts of the Lord (note these are not Feasts of the Jews for God gave them to all Israel). Thus, we find in Acts 20:7 Christians using inappropriately the phrase to fit into their life of disobedience of not keeping the Sabbath Day Holy as God commanded. They have fallen into Satan's one best lie. It's not too late to receive truth, unlearn false doctrine and walk in obedience to all the Word. Shalom to all.

Hi,

Acts 20:7 "And upon the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, intending to depart on the morrow; and prolonged his speech until midnight"

The verb "gathered" is passive voice rather than active voice meaning it was not an active decision the disciples made for themselves to assemble on the first day of the week. But the decision to gather together was made external to the disciples by God. So not only did the disciples gather on Sunday but were passively brought together by a directive of God to meet on Sunday.

The phrase "first day of the week" is from the Greek word sabbaton. The Jews used the Sabbath day as the base day for the days of the week. So first day of the week or first day from Sabbath would be Sunday. Second day of the week or second day from Sabbath would be Monday and so on.

Mark 16:1- "And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
2- And very early in the morning the first day of the week,(sabbaton) they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun."

Verse 1 says "Sabbath was past" so the "first day of the week" in verse 2 would be Sunday. If "first day of week" meant the Sabbath day, then there would have been two Sabbath days in a row, which is not possible.

 

[posthuman]

Uncirumcision means nothing too.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Remember, anything you do with a meritorious mindset is bondage even not stealing, not killing, not committing adultery and so on.

Nevertheless, each person should live as a believer
in whatever situation the Lord has assigned to them,
just as God has called them.
(1 Corinthians 7:17)

Each person should remain in the situation they were in when God called them.
(1 Corinthians 7:20)

how many of us were Torah-observant Jews when God called us?

Brothers and sisters, each person, as responsible to God,
should remain in the situation they were in when God called them.
(1 Corinthians 7:24)

were you keeping Jewish rituals before God called you to grace? i wasn't.

Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised.
Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised.
(1 Corinthians 7:18)

and so now i am called to observe the heavenly things, not the earthly shadows of them.
would you call that 'Babylon' ?
i'm under the impression that spiritual Babylon has an outward form of godliness but denies the true power of it. am i mistaken?

 

[SeaBass]

I have a very very different understanding of Acts 20:7. In context, you must understand verse 6. Here is both:

Act 20:6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Verse 7 break down in Strong's: 1) the word "day" is in italics, meaning the translators added the word since there is no word for "day" in the Greek.
2) the word "Week" is Strong's G4521
σάββατον
sabbaton
sab'-bat-on
Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

LXX related word(s)
H7676 shabat
H7677 shabbaton

H7676
שׁבּת
shabbâth
shab-bawth'
Intensive from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath.

LXX related word(s)
G372 ana pausis
G1442 hebdomos
G4315 pro sabbaton
G4521 sabbaton

H7677
שׁבּתון
shabbâthôn
shab-baw-thone'
From H7676; a sabbatism or special holiday: - rest, sabbath.

LXX related word(s)
G4521 sabbaton

Verse 7 of Acts 20 is referring to the counting of Sabbaths after the Feast of Unleavened Bread. There is first Sabbath, second Sabbath, third Sabbath, fourth Sabbath, fifth Sabbath, sixth Sabbath and 7th Sabbath plus 1 day is Pentecost/Shavuot.

I know in our Greek mind set and in our culture, the first day of the week is Sunday. But the Bible and NT were not written in our culture, it was written in their culture, which is very different from ours. Their culture, at sundown started a new day. Their culture, the Sabbath was a sign of who you belong to...you belong to the Creator of all the universe and His name is Yahwey. Their culture, they kept the Feasts of the Lord (note these are not Feasts of the Jews for God gave them to all Israel). Thus, we find in Acts 20:7 Christians using inappropriately the phrase to fit into their life of disobedience of not keeping the Sabbath Day Holy as God commanded. They have fallen into Satan's one best lie. It's not too late to receive truth, unlearn false doctrine and walk in obedience to all the Word. Shalom to all.

Also add the example from Luke 18:12:

"I fast twice in the week (sabbaton), I give tithes of all that I possess."

If "week" is to be translated "Sabbath Day", then how could he fast twice in one day?

 

[Scuba]

Christ NEVER required Christians to keep the Sabbath Day or remain home on the Sabbath Day.

Do you leave home on the Sabbath Day since you think this OT law is still binding?

A Christian is a follower of Christ, not some separate entity outside of the commandments of God. Jesus honored the seventh day Sabbath and I follow Him. Jesus taught me how to honor the Sabbath in light of things that come up on the Sabbath. He also said the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. None of His teachings referred to Sunday. I honor the seventh day of creation because it was created holy, blessed and sanctified by God before sin and long before any Law was given to protect it. God said the Sabbath was very good.

 

[SeaBass]

A Christian is a follower of Christ, not some separate entity outside of the commandments of God. Jesus honored the seventh day Sabbath and I follow Him. Jesus taught me how to honor the Sabbath in light of things that come up on the Sabbath. He also said the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. None of His teachings referred to Sunday. I honor the seventh day of creation because it was created holy, blessed and sanctified by God before sin and long before any Law was given to protect it. God said the Sabbath was very good.

I agree that a Christian is a follower of Christ. The issue is where did Christ ever command Christians to keep the Law of Moses/keep the Sabbath Day?

The other thing to remember, when born and living on earth, the OT law was still in effect so He kept it perfectly thereby fulfilling it. Part of His mission in coming to earth was to take the OT law out of the way by fulfilling it (not destroying it) and replace it with His NT gospel which He did on His cross. When Christ said "it is finished" part of what was included in that was the OT law.

 

[Scuba]

I agree that a Christian is a follower of Christ. The issue is where did Christ ever command Christians to keep the Law of Moses/keep the Sabbath Day?

The other thing to remember, when born and living on earth, the OT law was still in effect so He kept it perfectly thereby fulfilling it. Part of His mission in coming to earth was to take the OT law out of the way by fulfilling it (not destroying it) and replace it with His NT gospel which He did on His cross. When Christ said "it is finished" part of what was included in that was the OT law.

Matthew 23:1-3 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples. “The teachers of the Law and the Pharisees are the authorized interpreters of Moses' Law. So you must obey and follow everything they tell you to do; do not, however, imitate their actions, because they don't practice what they preach.

 

[posthuman]

Matthew 23:1-3 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples. “The teachers of the Law and the Pharisees are the authorized interpreters of Moses' Law. So you must obey and follow everything they tell you to do; do not, however, imitate their actions, because they don't practice what they preach.

was He talking to us, or to people who were under the Torah?

in another place He told a man He had healed to show Himself to the priest and offer the sacrifices for cleansing.

when you get over the flu, do you sacrifice some doves and get yourself sprinkled with the ashes of a red heifer?
or was Christ talking to a man who was still living under the old covenant when He said that?

 

[ROEH]

I have a very very different understanding of Acts 20:7. In context, you must understand verse 6. Here is both:

Act 20:6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Verse 7 break down in Strong's: 1) the word "day" is in italics, meaning the translators added the word since there is no word for "day" in the Greek.
2) the word "Week" is Strong's G4521
σάββατον
sabbaton
sab'-bat-on
Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

LXX related word(s)
H7676 shabat
H7677 shabbaton

H7676
שׁבּת
shabbâth
shab-bawth'
Intensive from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath.

LXX related word(s)
G372 ana pausis
G1442 hebdomos
G4315 pro sabbaton
G4521 sabbaton

H7677
שׁבּתון
shabbâthôn
shab-baw-thone'
From H7676; a sabbatism or special holiday: - rest, sabbath.

LXX related word(s)
G4521 sabbaton

Verse 7 of Acts 20 is referring to the counting of Sabbaths after the Feast of Unleavened Bread. There is first Sabbath, second Sabbath, third Sabbath, fourth Sabbath, fifth Sabbath, sixth Sabbath and 7th Sabbath plus 1 day is Pentecost/Shavuot.

I know in our Greek mind set and in our culture, the first day of the week is Sunday. But the Bible and NT were not written in our culture, it was written in their culture, which is very different from ours. Their culture, at sundown started a new day. Their culture, the Sabbath was a sign of who you belong to...you belong to the Creator of all the universe and His name is Yahwey. Their culture, they kept the Feasts of the Lord (note these are not Feasts of the Jews for God gave them to all Israel). Thus, we find in Acts 20:7 Christians using inappropriately the phrase to fit into their life of disobedience of not keeping the Sabbath Day Holy as God commanded. They have fallen into Satan's one best lie. It's not too late to receive truth, unlearn false doctrine and walk in obedience to all the Word. Shalom to all.

Beautifully said, just plain awesome!

 

[JesusIsAll]

Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Galatians 5:13-14 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: to whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Galatians 4:9-11 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Matthew 7:3-5 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

[EmethAlethia]

“Do you stay home all week since Jesus is your Sabbath?

You are misinterpreting the verse and grabbing at straws to do away with something that will never be done away with. Jesus walked everywhere on the Sabbath. Are you saying Jesus sinned? Stop kicking against the goads and come out of Babylon. The truth will never change so don't try.”

I don't think you want to understand the passage because to actually get the meaning, the flow of thought ... would totally defeat your belief. Unless you are stating that we never can be Christian if we do not hold to your days of worship / rest, let’s agree that this is an in house debate. If you are saying that I must keep the O.T. Laws about the Sabbath to be saved, i.e. the keeping of the Law is necessary for salvation, then we have different areas to cover.

That said, I will attempt to break it down for you, in case you really are open to altering your beliefs, and your eyes and ears aren't closed with regards to the topic. If they are, that will be apparent as well. Context is esential.

Rom 14:1Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.

(What is weak in faith from the context of the rest of this passage? Being convinced that something is wrong, or only “something else” is “right” and “everything else” is “wrong”, when God really couldn’t care less about the issue. Right? Then those firmly convinced that the “other behaviors are sin, do what?)

2One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.3The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.

(These people who hold to different days regard each other with contempt. Is that good or bad? Well, God has accepted BOTH OF THEM. Therefore, these are not contempt issues, but rather issues regarding a “weakness in faith” issue ON BOTH SIDES.)

4Who are you to judge the servant of another?

(In case we don’t get it, regarding each other with contempt over these issues is ungodly. )

To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

(Yes, the Lord accepts us both, or rather everyone who holds to eating things, not eating things, holding to one day or … well let’s break it down.)

5One person regards one day above another,

(It really seems to me that you really want to hold to the traditional Sabbath(Friday dusk to Saturday dusk) over Sunday or over any other day. Is this not the case? If so, then this passage does apply to the topic we are discussing. Obviously it is not a “New” discussion topic if Paul is dealing with the same issue in the first century, right?) Here’s the point so far. You hold to one day(Traditional Sabbath)(Option #1). Right now, I am holding to a First day of the week belief (That would be “another”)(Option #2)

another regards every day alike.

(Holding to EVERY DAY ALIKE, is Option #3) That’s three options. My grandmother used to go to church every single day and pray. That was what she felt right doing. Was she sinning? So which is correct?)

Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

(So you disagree with me. So what? It’s not the end of the world. I disagree with you. So what. Are you not Christian because we disagree on vegetables, days, wine … ? No, right? These aren’t the essentials. They fall in the meaningless contention area, right? Or do you disagree with Paul? That’s another possibility. If you disagree with the writers of scripture it kind of makes all discussion as to issues a waste of time, doesn’t it?)

6He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord,

(Which day? Any Day, Every Day … if you observe it who are you observing it for? We are talking about observing one day or the other FOR THE LORD!!!! This is the word of God’s opinion on the exact topic we are discussing here. Are we open to “hearing” what the word of God has to say? Are we open to altering our opinions to fit the fullness of ALL that is said when it is being cut straight? If you disagree that this isn’t about observing specific days for the Lord, then, without changing meaning of the words, or the context, tell me what is being discussed here?)

and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

(Same topic. Little differences in what we should do. Should we eat pork, shellfish, … should we drink wine, eat vegetables only … not a real issue. LET EACH MAN BE FIRMLY CONVINCED IN HIS OWN MIND! Yet, is not Paul saying that none of these things really matter to God? Is not the mature view, i.e. those that want to think as God thinks, merely to say it doesn’t matter to God? Are there not passages that talk about teaching as doctrines or precepts the doctrines/precepts of men? What happens when we try to make things not commanded by God commands of God? As a side note, what were the things that were discussed about telling the Gentile believers that they should follow in Acts? Abstain from fornication was one. What else? Were days of worship discussed?)


7For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; 8for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's. 9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. 10But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.

(Again, why are we making issues of things that aren’t issues with God? So what if someone chooses to worship on the O.T. Sabbath? As long as they don’t believe that keeping the Law, including this one, is a requirement for salvation, they have the same gospel, right? What’s the big deal? Someone else has Wednesdays and Thursdays off and chooses to worship on Thursday. So what? Should we hold each other in contempt over such things? Of course not, IF WE ARE OBEDIENT TO GOD, that is.)


11For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD." 12So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God. 13Therefore let us not judge one another anymore,

(Well, from the context, days, food … aren’t issues to God. We still have the let each man be firmly convinced in his own mind part. That part is key. We still have the stop judging others weak in the faith part. That is also key. We still have the stop judging others with regards to the “types” of things listed here part. That is key. We will each stand before God and give an account. Not our job to worry about others not holding to our day, or our diet … Right?)


but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.14I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

(Good issue. What is a stumbling block? What are we talking about here? If you are firmly convinced that a thing is evil, wrong, contrary to God’s plan, and I, knowing that these things don’t mean anything to God convince you to act contrary to what you STILL BELIEVE, I have placed a stumbling block in your way. Why? Because you are still firmly convinced that doing something else is sin, right?)


15For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died. 16Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing

(What is the “good thing” from the context? Is it not understanding that God couldn’t care less about these things? That things like this do not matter at all to God? To not be stressed out by details, which, in the eyes of God are meaningless? Yet what happens if I convince you to skip a Sabbath and worship on Sunday when you are not fully believing that that is perfectly acceptable to God? )

be spoken of as evil; 17for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

(Again, these “things” days, food, drink … are not important to God. Pursing Righteousness, peace, joy in the Holy Spirit, these are worthwhile.)

18For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another. 20Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense. 21It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.

(If my attending church on any other day will cause you to actually go to church and forsake the day you BELIEVE you have to worship on, or it is sin, then my actions CAUSE YOU TO STUMBLE. If you will not do what you still believe to be sin, NO MATTER WHAT I DO, then it is not a stumbling issue. You won’t stumble based on what I am doing, so I am free to continue as I please.)

To be continued ...

 

[EmethAlethia]

22The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.

(Again, if you believe it to be a sin for you, you can do nothing else but obey it, whether it is holding to one day over another, whether or not you can, or cannot eat meat, which meats, drinking … If you believe it to be sin, indeed it is, whether or not it is playing cards, driving automobiles, eating pizza … if you believe it is sin, it is … for you. Those of us strong in faith, who understand, AND BELIEVE, that these things are meaningless to God, have the freedom of not worrying and simply enjoying what God provides.)

Hopefully this makes sense. Again, if you believe that keeping the Law, as in keeping the O.T. Sabbath is a requirement for salvation, then we have larger issues to go over. If not, you can believe in your day. You can believe that you can only eat pizza if you want. You can believe that anything you want to believe is sin, is sin for you. That’s ok. Making these things a requirement … that is an issue that violates what is said in scripture.)

 

[WomanLovesTX]

Hi,

Acts 20:7 "And upon the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, intending to depart on the morrow; and prolonged his speech until midnight"

The verb "gathered" is passive voice rather than active voice meaning it was not an active decision the disciples made for themselves to assemble on the first day of the week. But the decision to gather together was made external to the disciples by God. So not only did the disciples gather on Sunday but were passively brought together by a directive of God to meet on Sunday.

The phrase "first day of the week" is from the Greek word sabbaton. The Jews used the Sabbath day as the base day for the days of the week. So first day of the week or first day from Sabbath would be Sunday. Second day of the week or second day from Sabbath would be Monday and so on.

Mark 16:1- "And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
2- And very early in the morning the first day of the week,(sabbaton) they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun."

Verse 1 says "Sabbath was past" so the "first day of the week" in verse 2 would be Sunday. If "first day of week" meant the Sabbath day, then there would have been two Sabbath days in a row, which is not possible.

Sorry, I disagree. I'm sure I've posted several times before the true meaning of the phrase "first day of the week" is linked to the counting of Sabbaths after the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and has nothing to do with Sunday. It is the culture that one must understand and remove yourself from Western thinking to Eastern thinking.

 

[Scuba]

22The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.

(Again, if you believe it to be a sin for you, you can do nothing else but obey it, whether it is holding to one day over another, whether or not you can, or cannot eat meat, which meats, drinking … If you believe it to be sin, indeed it is, whether or not it is playing cards, driving automobiles, eating pizza … if you believe it is sin, it is … for you. Those of us strong in faith, who understand, AND BELIEVE, that these things are meaningless to God, have the freedom of not worrying and simply enjoying what God provides.)

Hopefully this makes sense. Again, if you believe that keeping the Law, as in keeping the O.T. Sabbath is a requirement for salvation, then we have larger issues to go over. If not, you can believe in your day. You can believe that you can only eat pizza if you want. You can believe that anything you want to believe is sin, is sin for you. That’s ok. Making these things a requirement … that is an issue that violates what is said in scripture.)

What I hear is weak believers and man's opinions and nothing about what God has clearly commanded.

 

[posthuman]

What I hear is weak believers and man's opinions and nothing about what God has clearly commanded.

what you're saying is a 'clear commandment' is from the Torah. here's another clear commandment from the very same Law:

If anyone of the common people sins unintentionally in doing any one of the things that by the Lord's commandments ought not to be done, and realizes his guilt, or the sin which he has committed is made known to him, he shall bring for his offering a goat, a female without blemish, for his sin which he has committed. And he shall lay his hand on the head of the sin offering and kill the sin offering in the place of burnt offering.
(Leviticus 4:27-29)

according to the law, if you convince one of us that we have sinned by misunderstanding how we should regard the Sabbath, we need to kill a spotless female goat at the place for burnt offering.

can you explain why we should lift one part of the law out and call it a 'clear command' and ignore the rest of it?
or can you direct me to where i should kill my goat?