The End of a Nation

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Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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The U.S. is a secular society and always has been, the country is based on law and with a clear division between church and state.

There is no government mandated religion.
The fact that founding fathers had a religious view, as did some the settlers, does not translate into the United States being a Christian nation.
You are ignoring the history of almost all of the colonial and early states populations went to church. Why are you so adamant about ignoring that history. Only a fraction of the population didn't go to church. That started to change in the 1960s. Today almost half of the population attends church but only a fraction hear the gospel message. The main protestant denominations are secular and the sub denominations and independent churches are the only ones preaching the gospel message. That secularization of denominations started in the 1880s. Gary North wrote the book "Crossed Fingers" documenting the secular takeover of the Presbyterian USA by 1932. Same thing was happening in the other main denominations. Secular ministers wanted access to the churches money. Presbyterian PCA prevents this with the BCO rules about handling money in the denomination. The board of Deacons handles the money. It sets the pay of all employees including the pastor(s). They also decide what committee gets what money they use with the exception of earmarked donations to the church. The pastor(s) is supplied with a relatively small fund for out of pocket mercy giving. For bigger needs the mercy committee decides in consultation with the pastor(s).
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Why are you so adamant about ignoring that history.
Well, maybe if we ignore it it will repeat itself, you want your Christian nation back right?

I have a feeling we are talking about two separate things.

I am speaking to the political and you are speaking more to the societal part.

I will agree that the U.S. had more homogeneous population in the past based on a Judaeo-Christian ethic.

I still think I am right though.:)
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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The Constitution has the following with respect of religion.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

In Europe and some colonies there was an established religion. Those not adhering to that particular denominations belief were second class citizens. One woman went to a colony and preached her denomination. She was taken to the border and told not to return. She did and was whipped and again escorted to thee border. The last time they did this they warned her she might be executed
She returned and they hung her. That is how serious they felt about their version of Christianity. It is Also why no established religion is allowed.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
The Constitution has the following with respect of religion.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

In Europe and some colonies there was an established religion. Those not adhering to that particular denominations belief were second class citizens. One woman went to a colony and preached her denomination. She was taken to the border and told not to return. She did and was whipped and again escorted to thee border. The last time they did this they warned her she might be executed
She returned and they hung her. That is how serious they felt about their version of Christianity. It is Also why no established religion is allowed.

Seems like a contradiction to me:unsure:
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Seems like a contradiction to me:unsure:
In a country or colony with an established religion there was no choice. You must adhere to that denomination. It didn't matter if you agreed with everything or not. No choice. If you lived in Scotland and moved to England you had to stop being a Presbyterian and become Catholic or Church of England depending on the year. No choice.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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North Carolina
The end of this nation will be caused by turning away from God and His mercy and grace He has extended towards us since the beginning. We are fortunate He has spared us this long.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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The end of this nation will be caused by turning away from God and His mercy and grace He has extended towards us since the beginning. We are fortunate He has spared us this long.
That has already happened. He has already cursed us. Knowing the end from the beginning when he set creation into motion he set the solar system with the moon in a special relationship to earth that causes eclipses to signify his condemnation. In history when an eclipse crossed from border to border that nation ceased to be as great as it was. The US was crossed by an eclipse from east to west. In 2024 there will be an eclipse from northeast to southwest crossing 7 cities named Salem. Those eclipses will make an X on the US. Double condemnation!! This country was started from a Christian set of colonies founded on Christian values by Christians having the freedom to worship God in the gospel preaching denomination of their choosing. The early settlers came here to get religious freedom. The pilgrims, quakers, and other groups of Christians. Today the country is almost all secular. Thus the condemnation God.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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The end of this nation will be caused by turning away from God and His mercy and grace He has extended towards us since the beginning. We are fortunate He has spared us this long.
Like I have said in the original op....as a nation we have embraced numerous things that BEG for the judgment of GOD.....and if JUDAH teaches us anything....it teaches us that even the RIGHTEOUS suffer when God judges a nation or kingdom.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
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Well, maybe if we ignore it it will repeat itself, you want your Christian nation back right?

I have a feeling we are talking about two separate things.

I am speaking to the political and you are speaking more to the societal part.

I will agree that the U.S. had more homogeneous population in the past based on a Judaeo-Christian ethic.

I still think I am right though.:)
I believe we reached the point of no return long ago. The eclipses show God knowing the end from the begining created the moon orbit to create the eclipses when time to pronounce judgement comes. That time has come for the US. Only a splinter of Christians left in this country. All of the protestant big denominations are secular. Only the sub denominations still preach the gospel message. Go to one of the main denominations like Presbyterian USA and see if Jesus is even mentioned. Presbyterian PCA is the denomination I went to for many years. At an invitational evening service with refreshments served at a refreshment and fellowship time a man that attended a Lutheran church told me he heard the gospel message for the first time. Almost half of the population attend church but only a splinter of them hear the gospel message.

Thus God's condemnation on the US.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
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Anaheim, Cali.
I believe we reached the point of no return long ago. The eclipses show God knowing the end from the begining created the moon orbit to create the eclipses when time to pronounce judgement comes. That time has come for the US. Only a splinter of Christians left in this country. All of the protestant big denominations are secular. Only the sub denominations still preach the gospel message. Go to one of the main denominations like Presbyterian USA and see if Jesus is even mentioned. Presbyterian PCA is the denomination I went to for many years. At an invitational evening service with refreshments served at a refreshment and fellowship time a man that attended a Lutheran church told me he heard the gospel message for the first time. Almost half of the population attend church but only a splinter of them hear the gospel message.

Thus God's condemnation on the US.
Of the 56 signers of the declaration of independence, 13 were admitted freemasons https://www.mn-masons.org/sites/mn-masons.org/files/6195.doc

dedicated to pantheism science and prosperity and freedom from religious domination. USA, Christian nation? When?
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Of the 56 signers of the declaration of independence, 13 were admitted freemasons https://www.mn-masons.org/sites/mn-masons.org/files/6195.doc

dedicated to pantheism science and prosperity and freedom from religious domination. USA, Christian nation? When?
It is obvious you are ignorant about the Masonic Order. It has 2 sides to it. Christian and adherents to Judaism. To be a member you must be one or the other unless they changed it. George Washington was a 32 degree Mason. Go peddle your ignorant garbage elsewhere. I don't know where you got that garbage but it is false.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
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Anaheim, Cali.
It is obvious you are ignorant about the Masonic Order. It has 2 sides to it. Christian and adherents to Judaism. To be a member you must be one or the other unless they changed it. George Washington was a 32 degree Mason. Go peddle your ignorant garbage elsewhere. I don't know where you got that garbage but it is false.
I was under the impression masons are allowed to practice astrology.
And Franklin belonged to the Hell's fire club. The link I posted came from www.mnmasons.org and much of the info came from the history channel.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
It is obvious you are ignorant about the Masonic Order. It has 2 sides to it. Christian and adherents to Judaism. To be a member you must be one or the other unless they changed it. George Washington was a 32 degree Mason. Go peddle your ignorant garbage elsewhere. I don't know where you got that garbage but it is false.
So what if Washington was a mason. Matthew was a tax collector. And Saul of Tarsus was a Pharisee. I don't worship them either.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
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I was under the impression masons are allowed to practice astrology.
And Franklin belonged to the Hell's fire club. The link I posted came from www.mnmasons.org and much of the info came from the history channel.
My father was a Mason and I was a member of the DeMolay a junior Masonic organization like Eastern Star for women. I almost became a Mason but family problems prevented that. I was partway through the membership when I was forced elaswhere. That is why I know so much about it. Wherever you are getting that information is a bogus hate site.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
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So what if Washington was a mason. Matthew was a tax collector. And Saul of Tarsus was a Pharisee. I don't worship them either.
George Washington was a very committed Christian and member of the Presbyterian church. He never talked about that but lived according to Christian principles. One of the reasons he was so highly esteemed. Try to get correct information before opening mouth and inserting foot. Again you put words in my mouth. I never said we should worship him. Liar!!!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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George Washington was a very committed Christian and member of the Presbyterian church. He never talked about that but lived according to Christian principles. One of the reasons he was so highly esteemed. Try to get correct information before opening mouth and inserting foot. Again you put words in my mouth. I never said we should worship him. Liar!!!
The religious views of George Washington have long been debated. While some of the Founding Fathers, such as Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and Patrick Henry were noted for writing about religion, Washington rarely discussed his religious and philosophical views. His personal letters and public speeches sometimes referred to "Providence."

Who said you said anyone should worship him???? Nobody.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
My father was a Mason and I was a member of the DeMolay a junior Masonic organization like Eastern Star for women. I almost became a Mason but family problems prevented that. I was partway through the membership when I was forced elaswhere. That is why I know so much about it. Wherever you are getting that information is a bogus hate site.
PBS, The history channel, Trinity Broadcasting. They're no worse than the RCC.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
I was under the impression masons are allowed to practice astrology.
And Franklin belonged to the Hell's fire club. The link I posted came from www.mnmasons.org and much of the info came from the history channel.
Like I said before. You are getting bogus information.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
George Washington was a very committed Christian and member of the Presbyterian church. He never talked about that but lived according to Christian principles. One of the reasons he was so highly esteemed. Try to get correct information before opening mouth and inserting foot. Again you put words in my mouth. I never said we should worship him. Liar!!!
Did I say you did? I said 'I' didn't what are you getting so upset about nobody's pointing at finger at you. He was a clever leader. I don't care if he was a catholic, an atheist or a Buddhist, that wouldn't make him all bad. And so what about the Presbyterian church too? Are they better than the Baptists', Lutherans' or Pentecostals'?