The End of a Nation

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Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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That has already happened. He has already cursed us. Knowing the end from the beginning when he set creation into motion he set the solar system with the moon in a special relationship to earth that causes eclipses to signify his condemnation. In history when an eclipse crossed from border to border that nation ceased to be as great as it was. The US was crossed by an eclipse from east to west. In 2024 there will be an eclipse from northeast to southwest crossing 7 cities named Salem. Those eclipses will make an X on the US. Double condemnation!! This country was started from a Christian set of colonies founded on Christian values by Christians having the freedom to worship God in the gospel preaching denomination of their choosing. The early settlers came here to get religious freedom. The pilgrims, quakers, and other groups of Christians. Today the country is almost all secular. Thus the condemnation God.

Really? God doesn't "curse" us, God is ONLY good, He doesn't "get angry" and lash out. What He does do is tell us what the result of OUR wicked actions will be if we turn from His ways and commandments for our own desires. I do agree He tells us the end from the beginning, but I also read He is at the right hand given the Name above all names, that ALL authority in heaven and on earth is His, and He is King right now ruling until everything is under His feet, and we are then means by which this takes place. We are kingdom builders by His power, for His glory. We are called to proclaim the ONLY truth, the very truth of existence that changes people’s hearts/families/communities/states/countries/EVERYTHING. This power has been demonstrated in the world for 2,000 years undeniably bringing good into this world, and we need to proclaim it more. We openly admit to all the horror done in the name of Jesus (as we should BTW, the truth is always of the upmost importance), but rarely come back with the world changing radical ideas He brought into the world that all stem directly back to Gods revelation. Love your enemy? That is not "logical" to a man in the flesh. That is not a teaching monkeys would naturally evolve to. Jesus gospel still has the same power today as it did then because it is truth and we have to stand on it as such, unashamed and with all patients and love, but in solid unwavering truth.



My point is only this, you are making God seem like us, like a human father fed up with dealing with his kids disobedience with anger. Not true, yes we are all born under the wrath of a just God, we are born spiritually dead, spiritually disconnected from God in the flesh, in sin. The message I get from what you’re saying seems like “we need to hunker down and get ready for evil to take over, it’s coming and there is nothing we can do to stop it.”(and that may be so far from how you really feel, but this is what I gathered from this comment), and I think this kind of thinking is flawed. I do not think evil will conquer the truth, or can ever overcome His work, again like the leaven in the 3 measures and the mustard seed, Gods Kingdom will stand forever, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. We are called to proclaim His victory, not His defeat on earth first. I trust the power of God and have been blessed to see it manifest right in front of my face and I must testify of it. Since the day He lead me to see things this way, it has ignited a fire inside me like never before to proclaim Jesus. I just wanted to share my point of view on the matter. Thanks and have a great Thanksgiving, all in His glorious name!!!Amen.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
3,873
361
83
Really? God doesn't "curse" us, God is ONLY good, He doesn't "get angry" and lash out. What He does do is tell us what the result of OUR wicked actions will be if we turn from His ways and commandments for our own desires. I do agree He tells us the end from the beginning, but I also read He is at the right hand given the Name above all names, that ALL authority in heaven and on earth is His, and He is King right now ruling until everything is under His feet, and we are then means by which this takes place. We are kingdom builders by His power, for His glory. We are called to proclaim the ONLY truth, the very truth of existence that changes people’s hearts/families/communities/states/countries/EVERYTHING. This power has been demonstrated in the world for 2,000 years undeniably bringing good into this world, and we need to proclaim it more. We openly admit to all the horror done in the name of Jesus (as we should BTW, the truth is always of the upmost importance), but rarely come back with the world changing radical ideas He brought into the world that all stem directly back to Gods revelation. Love your enemy? That is not "logical" to a man in the flesh. That is not a teaching monkeys would naturally evolve to. Jesus gospel still has the same power today as it did then because it is truth and we have to stand on it as such, unashamed and with all patients and love, but in solid unwavering truth.



My point is only this, you are making God seem like us, like a human father fed up with dealing with his kids disobedience with anger. Not true, yes we are all born under the wrath of a just God, we are born spiritually dead, spiritually disconnected from God in the flesh, in sin. The message I get from what you’re saying seems like “we need to hunker down and get ready for evil to take over, it’s coming and there is nothing we can do to stop it.”(and that may be so far from how you really feel, but this is what I gathered from this comment), and I think this kind of thinking is flawed. I do not think evil will conquer the truth, or can ever overcome His work, again like the leaven in the 3 measures and the mustard seed, Gods Kingdom will stand forever, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. We are called to proclaim His victory, not His defeat on earth first. I trust the power of God and have been blessed to see it manifest right in front of my face and I must testify of it. Since the day He lead me to see things this way, it has ignited a fire inside me like never before to proclaim Jesus. I just wanted to share my point of view on the matter. Thanks and have a great Thanksgiving, all in His glorious name!!!Amen.
I don't don't know what Bible you are reading. There was the flood. So tell me again how God doesn't condemn and punish people. This country was a Christian country starting with the colonies. Pilgrims, Quakers and other religious groups came here for religious freedom. Our constitution guarantees freedom of religion, Gary North wrote a book about the secular takeover of the Presbyterian USA by secular ministers in 1932 wanting access to the church money. All of the major protestant denominations have been taken over as well. Now only the sub denominations and independent churches still preach the gospel message. Go to a Presbyterian USA church and see if you hear Jesus mentioned. Go to a Presbyterian USA church and see if you hear Jesus mentioned. Currently almost half of the population goes to church. The problem is only a splinter hear the gospel message. Therefore only a splinter of people are Christians. Individuals like you and others on this site are only a fraction of the splinter of Christians left in this country. The vast majority are Secular.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
3,675
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lawton ok
You seem to love the lies you tell. It isn't mindless chanting. The creeds are what a person must believe for salvation. That is why memorization is needed. Using that and selected verses a person can tell an unbeliever the gospel message. I guess you hate spreading the gospel message.
You've got it all mixed up. Believing most of the elements of the Apostles creed is essential to salvation I agree, once you remove the name of the church from it.. Didn't I read sometime back that you used to follow the teachings to Dr. Walter Martin? He was my Sunday school teacher in the 80's.

Did you miss the part in kingdom of cults about vain repetition and chanting? Of course I know the apostles creed by heart backwards and forwards and it was required by my employer to be recited once and signed. It was a loophole to prevent us from being forced to testify against the church in court. That was not the church I favored attending as I worked for a large television ministry but attended Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa at the time.

They simply replaced the word Catholic with Apostolic in the creed. And I sinned and swore an oath, to get a job. Even though I knew better. I feel I owe no allegiance to any church my allegiance is to Jesus alone. We do not have A Calvary Chapel in this part of the land so by default I align with the Salvation Army Corps. But attend a Methodist church for praise and worship and yet will not become a member. I belong to Jesus not a church and I will not lie and say I do.

Being able to recite an oath that someone we've never met wrote is not a sign of a circumcised heart. I feel reciting words are nearly meaningless to people that don't comprehend them. I've heard atheists' and Muslim's recite the lords or the serenity prayer without meaning a word of it. Without comprehension, words are meaning less confessing with our mouths is not enough, Believing in our hearts is the clause. I'm sure the Lord has a special place in his heart for the learning impaired as they are child like. I believe I was saved by grace. Not faith or works however that belief in saving grace accounts for my faith and after I received the love of the holy spirit it gave me a compassionate and forgiving heart. I want to help others and I'd rather talk and share about love and grace than works and laws. BECAUSE WORKS, & LAWS ARE THE DEVILS TRAPS. The only good works that can save us have already been done, on the cross. That's the most important works and by law the sin debt has been paid in blood. Love god with all heart, mind and soul and love our neighbor as we do ourselves Are our new commandments. In John the first command Jesus gave us is to love one another. Not the establishment!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
25,315
3,689
113
I don't don't know what Bible you are reading. There was the flood. So tell me again how God doesn't condemn and punish people.
Those who were/are to be condemned and punished were/are not His people.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
3,675
2,723
113
65
lawton ok
I don't don't know what Bible you are reading. There was the flood. So tell me again how God doesn't condemn and punish people. This country was a Christian country starting with the colonies. Pilgrims, Quakers and other religious groups came here for religious freedom. Our constitution guarantees freedom of religion, Gary North wrote a book about the secular takeover of the Presbyterian USA by secular ministers in 1932 wanting access to the church money. All of the major protestant denominations have been taken over as well. Now only the sub denominations and independent churches still preach the gospel message. Go to a Presbyterian USA church and see if you hear Jesus mentioned. Go to a Presbyterian USA church and see if you hear Jesus mentioned. Currently almost half of the population goes to church. The problem is only a splinter hear the gospel message. Therefore only a splinter of people are Christians. Individuals like you and others on this site are only a fraction of the splinter of Christians left in this country. The vast majority are Secular.
Secular christians is an oxymoron, unless you think it's a club or a team. If they wear a 5lb. cross and carry a 10 pound bible and go to church every day and they do not have faith or love they're still short of being a christian. It isn't a club or political party or fashion statement. It's a circumcision of the heart.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
859
750
93
Like I have said in the original op....as a nation we have embraced numerous things that BEG for the judgment of GOD.....and if JUDAH teaches us anything....it teaches us that even the RIGHTEOUS suffer when God judges a nation or kingdom.

And suffering we will. Losing the Republic will be a blight upon every man, woman, child
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
1,766
347
83
39
I don't don't know what Bible you are reading. There was the flood. So tell me again how God doesn't condemn and punish people. This country was a Christian country starting with the colonies. Pilgrims, Quakers and other religious groups came here for religious freedom. Our constitution guarantees freedom of religion, Gary North wrote a book about the secular takeover of the Presbyterian USA by secular ministers in 1932 wanting access to the church money. All of the major protestant denominations have been taken over as well. Now only the sub denominations and independent churches still preach the gospel message. Go to a Presbyterian USA church and see if you hear Jesus mentioned. Go to a Presbyterian USA church and see if you hear Jesus mentioned. Currently almost half of the population goes to church. The problem is only a splinter hear the gospel message. Therefore only a splinter of people are Christians. Individuals like you and others on this site are only a fraction of the splinter of Christians left in this country. The vast majority are Secular.
Yea I think I kind of covered that with the whole "we are all born under a just Gods wrath" statement. I do not deny that Gods righteous standard must be fulfilled. I also read how that very same God stepped into time and space to crush death and so that His kingdom could be unleased on the world, you seem to ignore this part of His story. Why? I tell you what, you just keep on preaching defeat, and I'll just stick with proclaiming His victory, and watching in amazement as His power changes people right in front of me. What you preach has no power, and leads to helplessness, what I proclaim is the power of our King to rule until ALL enemies are under His feet.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
3,873
361
83
You've got it all mixed up. Believing most of the elements of the Apostles creed is essential to salvation I agree, once you remove the name of the church from it.. Didn't I read sometime back that you used to follow the teachings to Dr. Walter Martin? He was my Sunday school teacher in the 80's.

Did you miss the part in kingdom of cults about vain repetition and chanting? Of course I know the apostles creed by heart backwards and forwards and it was required by my employer to be recited once and signed. It was a loophole to prevent us from being forced to testify against the church in court. That was not the church I favored attending as I worked for a large television ministry but attended Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa at the time.

They simply replaced the word Catholic with Apostolic in the creed. And I sinned and swore an oath, to get a job. Even though I knew better. I feel I owe no allegiance to any church my allegiance is to Jesus alone. We do not have A Calvary Chapel in this part of the land so by default I align with the Salvation Army Corps. But attend a Methodist church for praise and worship and yet will not become a member. I belong to Jesus not a church and I will not lie and say I do.

Being able to recite an oath that someone we've never met wrote is not a sign of a circumcised heart. I feel reciting words are nearly meaningless to people that don't comprehend them. I've heard atheists' and Muslim's recite the lords or the serenity prayer without meaning a word of it. Without comprehension, words are meaning less confessing with our mouths is not enough, Believing in our hearts is the clause. I'm sure the Lord has a special place in his heart for the learning impaired as they are child like. I believe I was saved by grace. Not faith or works however that belief in saving grace accounts for my faith and after I received the love of the holy spirit it gave me a compassionate and forgiving heart. I want to help others and I'd rather talk and share about love and grace than works and laws. BECAUSE WORKS, & LAWS ARE THE DEVILS TRAPS. The only good works that can save us have already been done, on the cross. That's the most important works and by law the sin debt has been paid in blood. Love god with all heart, mind and soul and love our neighbor as we do ourselves Are our new commandments. In John the first command Jesus gave us is to love one another. Not the establishment!
Never heard of him. Are you telling me the Presbyterian PCA denomination is a cult? Did you bother to read history about the early elders about why they created the creeds? They were used in evangelism. That and selected scriptures. Back then books were very expensive and people memorized a lot of information in order to be literate.

James discusses the relationship between faith and works. Did you ever read that? Here is a relationship between faith and works. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. This faith produces works. James states faith without works is dead. He then states he will show you his faith by his works.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
25,315
3,689
113
Secular christians is an oxymoron, unless you think it's a club or a team. If they wear a 5lb. cross and carry a 10 pound bible and go to church every day and they do not have faith or love they're still short of being a christian. It isn't a club or political party or fashion statement. It's a circumcision of the heart.


:love::):love:
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
3,873
361
83
Yea I think I kind of covered that with the whole "we are all born under a just Gods wrath" statement. I do not deny that Gods righteous standard must be fulfilled. I also read how that very same God stepped into time and space to crush death and so that His kingdom could be unleased on the world, you seem to ignore this part of His story. Why? I tell you what, you just keep on preaching defeat, and I'll just stick with proclaiming His victory, and watching in amazement as His power changes people right in front of me. What you preach has no power, and leads to helplessness, what I proclaim is the power of our King to rule until ALL enemies are under His feet.
God knew the end from the begining when he created the universe. He foresaw what the people would do. He set the moon orbit to pronounce his condemnation on countries. Historically when an eclipse cross a country it was cursed and fell into ruin. The US has had an eclipse cross the country and in 2024 an eclipse will go from northeast to southwest crossing 7 cities names Salem. That draws an X on the USA. To me that is God's condemnation on the USA for becoming almost completely a secular nation.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
25,315
3,689
113
God knew the end from the begining when he created the universe. He foresaw what the people would do. He set the moon orbit to pronounce his condemnation on countries. Historically when an eclipse cross a country it was cursed and fell into ruin. The US has had an eclipse cross the country and in 2024 an eclipse will go from northeast to southwest crossing 7 cities names Salem. That draws an X on the USA. To me that is God's condemnation on the USA for becoming almost completely a secular nation.
I think the point some have been trying to make with you is that it has largely been a secular nation for a long time. You talk about how many Christians there used to be while also acknowledging that in those days, people did not have a choice. Today's numbers may simply more accurately reflect who really believes in their hearts, and confesses with their mouths, that Jesus is Lord.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
3,873
361
83
You've got it all mixed up. Believing most of the elements of the Apostles creed is essential to salvation I agree, once you remove the name of the church from it.. Didn't I read sometime back that you used to follow the teachings to Dr. Walter Martin? He was my Sunday school teacher in the 80's.

Did you miss the part in kingdom of cults about vain repetition and chanting? Of course I know the apostles creed by heart backwards and forwards and it was required by my employer to be recited once and signed. It was a loophole to prevent us from being forced to testify against the church in court. That was not the church I favored attending as I worked for a large television ministry but attended Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa at the time.

They simply replaced the word Catholic with Apostolic in the creed. And I sinned and swore an oath, to get a job. Even though I knew better. I feel I owe no allegiance to any church my allegiance is to Jesus alone. We do not have A Calvary Chapel in this part of the land so by default I align with the Salvation Army Corps. But attend a Methodist church for praise and worship and yet will not become a member. I belong to Jesus not a church and I will not lie and say I do.

Being able to recite an oath that someone we've never met wrote is not a sign of a circumcised heart. I feel reciting words are nearly meaningless to people that don't comprehend them. I've heard atheists' and Muslim's recite the lords or the serenity prayer without meaning a word of it. Without comprehension, words are meaning less confessing with our mouths is not enough, Believing in our hearts is the clause. I'm sure the Lord has a special place in his heart for the learning impaired as they are child like. I believe I was saved by grace. Not faith or works however that belief in saving grace accounts for my faith and after I received the love of the holy spirit it gave me a compassionate and forgiving heart. I want to help others and I'd rather talk and share about love and grace than works and laws. BECAUSE WORKS, & LAWS ARE THE DEVILS TRAPS. The only good works that can save us have already been done, on the cross. That's the most important works and by law the sin debt has been paid in blood. Love god with all heart, mind and soul and love our neighbor as we do ourselves Are our new commandments. In John the first command Jesus gave us is to love one another. Not the establishment!
It is obvious to the casual observer that you are ignorant of what the Apostles Creed states. There is no mention of a church in it. The word catholic (small c) means universal. Some use that word instead to avoid the confusion.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
25,315
3,689
113
It is obvious to the casual observer that you are ignorant of what the Apostles Creed states. There is no mention of a church in it. The word catholic (small c) means universal. Some use that word instead to avoid the confusion.
It specifically says the holy catholic Church. Some may think that means Roman Catholic, but it means universal.

Oh, you said that :unsure: Still, church is mentioned. To say it is not, is erroneous.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
3,873
361
83
I think the point some have been trying to make with you is that it has largely been a secular nation for a long time. You talk about how many Christians there used to be while also acknowledging that in those days, people did not have a choice. Today's numbers may simply more accurately reflect who really believes in their hearts, and confesses with their mouths, that Jesus is Lord.
I understand that it has been going on for a long time. The secularization started in the 1880s. Gary North wrote a book called "Crossed Fingers" documenting that takeover by 1932 of the Presbyterian USA. I have the book and it started back then. All major denominations were secularized at the same time. He states that in his book and asks if someone would document the other denominations. I haven't heard of one.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
25,315
3,689
113
I understand that it has been going on for a long time. The secularization started in the 1880s. Gary North wrote a book called "Crossed Fingers" documenting that takeover by 1932 of the Presbyterian USA. I have the book and it started back then. All major denominations were secularized at the same time. He states that in his book and asks if someone would document the other denominations. I haven't heard of one.
I think it started long before then. Look back to Genesis :)
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
495
84
28
You've got it all mixed up. Believing most of the elements of the Apostles creed is essential to salvation I agree, once you remove the name of the church from it.. Didn't I read sometime back that you used to follow the teachings to Dr. Walter Martin? He was my Sunday school teacher in the 80's.

Did you miss the part in kingdom of cults about vain repetition and chanting? Of course I know the apostles creed by heart backwards and forwards and it was required by my employer to be recited once and signed. It was a loophole to prevent us from being forced to testify against the church in court. That was not the church I favored attending as I worked for a large television ministry but attended Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa at the time.

They simply replaced the word Catholic with Apostolic in the creed. And I sinned and swore an oath, to get a job. Even though I knew better. I feel I owe no allegiance to any church my allegiance is to Jesus alone. We do not have A Calvary Chapel in this part of the land so by default I align with the Salvation Army Corps. But attend a Methodist church for praise and worship and yet will not become a member. I belong to Jesus not a church and I will not lie and say I do.

Being able to recite an oath that someone we've never met wrote is not a sign of a circumcised heart. I feel reciting words are nearly meaningless to people that don't comprehend them. I've heard atheists' and Muslim's recite the lords or the serenity prayer without meaning a word of it. Without comprehension, words are meaning less confessing with our mouths is not enough, Believing in our hearts is the clause. I'm sure the Lord has a special place in his heart for the learning impaired as they are child like. I believe I was saved by grace. Not faith or works however that belief in saving grace accounts for my faith and after I received the love of the holy spirit it gave me a compassionate and forgiving heart. I want to help others and I'd rather talk and share about love and grace than works and laws. BECAUSE WORKS, & LAWS ARE THE DEVILS TRAPS. The only good works that can save us have already been done, on the cross. That's the most important works and by law the sin debt has been paid in blood. Love god with all heart, mind and soul and love our neighbor as we do ourselves Are our new commandments. In John the first command Jesus gave us is to love one another. Not the establishment!
Hello calibob, I agree, one must believe in their heart what the Lord is about.
When scripture says "for whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved"; I understand this to represent individuals who from their hearts, call upon the name of the Lord for their salvation.
Likewise, when scripture says: " that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved"; I understand they who confess with their mouths the Lord Jesus believe in their hearts the Lord Jesus, and all He preached.
Without the faith believing in Christ and His Way; many who will have confessed the name of the Lord will say to the Lord: "
Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?; to whom the Lord will reply: I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
3,873
361
83
You've got it all mixed up. Believing most of the elements of the Apostles creed is essential to salvation I agree, once you remove the name of the church from it.. Didn't I read sometime back that you used to follow the teachings to Dr. Walter Martin? He was my Sunday school teacher in the 80's.

Did you miss the part in kingdom of cults about vain repetition and chanting? Of course I know the apostles creed by heart backwards and forwards and it was required by my employer to be recited once and signed. It was a loophole to prevent us from being forced to testify against the church in court. That was not the church I favored attending as I worked for a large television ministry but attended Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa at the time.

They simply replaced the word Catholic with Apostolic in the creed. And I sinned and swore an oath, to get a job. Even though I knew better. I feel I owe no allegiance to any church my allegiance is to Jesus alone. We do not have A Calvary Chapel in this part of the land so by default I align with the Salvation Army Corps. But attend a Methodist church for praise and worship and yet will not become a member. I belong to Jesus not a church and I will not lie and say I do.

Being able to recite an oath that someone we've never met wrote is not a sign of a circumcised heart. I feel reciting words are nearly meaningless to people that don't comprehend them. I've heard atheists' and Muslim's recite the lords or the serenity prayer without meaning a word of it. Without comprehension, words are meaning less confessing with our mouths is not enough, Believing in our hearts is the clause. I'm sure the Lord has a special place in his heart for the learning impaired as they are child like. I believe I was saved by grace. Not faith or works however that belief in saving grace accounts for my faith and after I received the love of the holy spirit it gave me a compassionate and forgiving heart. I want to help others and I'd rather talk and share about love and grace than works and laws. BECAUSE WORKS, & LAWS ARE THE DEVILS TRAPS. The only good works that can save us have already been done, on the cross. That's the most important works and by law the sin debt has been paid in blood. Love god with all heart, mind and soul and love our neighbor as we do ourselves Are our new commandments. In John the first command Jesus gave us is to love one another. Not the establishment!
The early elders created the creeds because books were very rare and expensive. The creeds were created to state what a person MUST believe to be a Christian. That along with selected memorized verses is how evangelism was done. The required beliefs with verses backing it up. For your edification here is a list of creeds and how they were created.

Here is a list of the ancient creeds with date and short explanation.

Roman Creeds 120 Part of the earliest attempts that resulted in the Apostles Creed. First attempt was only 1 sentence. The last was almost the Apostles Creed. They grew by stages into the Apostles Creed.

Apostles' Creed 120-250 Product of the Roman Christians around A.D.180.

Creed of Nicaea 325 Ecumenical Church Product of the first ecumenical council in Nicaea which tried to solve the Arian controversy.

Nicene Creed (Nicaea-Constantinopolitan Creed) 381 Ecumenical Church Expansion and revision of the 325 Creed of Nicaea (includes new section on Holy Spirit). It is the most widely accepted Christian creed.

Chalcedonian Creed 451 Council of Chalcedon Nearly all Christian denominations (except Oriental Orthodoxy, the Assyrian Church of the East, and much of Restorationism)

Athanasian Creed 500 Western Christian denominations Lat.: Quicumque vult The origin of this creed is uncertain, but it is widely used in various Christian denominations.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
3,675
2,723
113
65
lawton ok
Never heard of him. Are you telling me the Presbyterian PCA denomination is a cult? Did you bother to read history about the early elders about why they created the creeds? They were used in evangelism. That and selected scriptures. Back then books were very expensive and people memorized a lot of information in order to be literate.

James discusses the relationship between faith and works. Did you ever read that? Here is a relationship between faith and works. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. This faith produces works. James states faith without works is dead. He then states he will show you his faith by his works.
Paragraph 2 first; Works come by gratitude of men and love came from the holy spirit, upon salvation. We do good works and consider it a blessing. We get to do them and want too. They come from the manifestation of God into our lives.

Dr. Martin was billed as the Bible answer man on a call in Q&A bible program but he wrote book "The Kingdom of the Cults about the united states being that kingdom. Allowing abortion and Satanism while attempting to curb school prayer. But it wasn't political at all. He wanted us to understand cults to help us recognize cult techniques like segregation, chanting, fear and other brainwashing techniques to help us. That we may understand how people get hooked on things like Mormonism, Jehovahs Witnesses, Peoples temple 7th day adventists and Rev. Moon... So we could understand, forgive and help them. "for they know not what they do." You missed a lot.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
3,873
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You've got it all mixed up. Believing most of the elements of the Apostles creed is essential to salvation I agree, once you remove the name of the church from it.. Didn't I read sometime back that you used to follow the teachings to Dr. Walter Martin? He was my Sunday school teacher in the 80's.

Did you miss the part in kingdom of cults about vain repetition and chanting? Of course I know the apostles creed by heart backwards and forwards and it was required by my employer to be recited once and signed. It was a loophole to prevent us from being forced to testify against the church in court. That was not the church I favored attending as I worked for a large television ministry but attended Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa at the time.

They simply replaced the word Catholic with Apostolic in the creed. And I sinned and swore an oath, to get a job. Even though I knew better. I feel I owe no allegiance to any church my allegiance is to Jesus alone. We do not have A Calvary Chapel in this part of the land so by default I align with the Salvation Army Corps. But attend a Methodist church for praise and worship and yet will not become a member. I belong to Jesus not a church and I will not lie and say I do.

Being able to recite an oath that someone we've never met wrote is not a sign of a circumcised heart. I feel reciting words are nearly meaningless to people that don't comprehend them. I've heard atheists' and Muslim's recite the lords or the serenity prayer without meaning a word of it. Without comprehension, words are meaning less confessing with our mouths is not enough, Believing in our hearts is the clause. I'm sure the Lord has a special place in his heart for the learning impaired as they are child like. I believe I was saved by grace. Not faith or works however that belief in saving grace accounts for my faith and after I received the love of the holy spirit it gave me a compassionate and forgiving heart. I want to help others and I'd rather talk and share about love and grace than works and laws. BECAUSE WORKS, & LAWS ARE THE DEVILS TRAPS. The only good works that can save us have already been done, on the cross. That's the most important works and by law the sin debt has been paid in blood. Love god with all heart, mind and soul and love our neighbor as we do ourselves Are our new commandments. In John the first command Jesus gave us is to love one another. Not the establishment!
You remind me of a hog on ice. What happens when a hog gets out of its pen in winter up north is at a point it can't move because it just slips its footing. If a farmer tries to help it the hog will try to attack the farmer. The farmer puts a rope around the hogs neck and pulls it off of the Ice. Then the farmer can guide the hog back to its pen.

I'm 74 and been a Christian all my life. I served as elder and deacon in 3 Reformed theology denominations. Moved twice. Part of becoming an elder and deacon was taking classes from the pastors about the theology of the church. Looked at creeds and confessions from the Biblical point of view. Your theology needs a lot of work!!