The End of a Nation

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,231
6,529
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#41
Time and decades of another language made me to paraphrase and not quote...here is the actual quote I remember,

"We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal."

It is certain you understood the paraphrase, but some are hair splitters……...so there you have it.
 

memyselfi

Junior Member
Jan 12, 2017
503
260
63
#42
God is consistent....His way of dealing with men, families, nations etc. remains consistently the same based upon his Holy nature and character. For example, when the Northern Kingdom of Israel has sold itself out to pure idolatry God moved against it and destroyed it while using the Assyrians. This is exactly why Jonah did not want to preach to Nineveh, because he knew the prophecies and understood that if Nineveh repented, God would spare them and then use them to destroy the Northern Kingdom. Nineveh was the capital of Assyria....

Fast forward a little over a century and a half, after numerous warning from history and a call to look North and learn a lesson from history, God finally moves against the Southern Kingdom of JUDAH due to spiritual adultery and brings another chapter of history to a close with the Babylonians marching across the land. After three subsequent invasions and a siege that resulted in cannibalism God decimates Southern Kingdom of JUDAH and it is not until some 2,484 years later that Israel is reborn as a nation and recognized in the world as a "STATE"......

What does this have to do with the OP you might ask......or not......

The following verses testify to what GOD would do to this NATION before HE JUDGED JUDAH........and I find it interesting that the same thing is happening to the U.S......Surely, a nation that has allowed the murder of over 65 million babies in the womb, a nation that embraces sexual perversion, a nation that is oppressive for the sake of national interest, a nation that is ostracizing the truth and believers while embracing occultism and satanism, a nation that knew GOD in truth at one time but will not be healed, is not long for judgement......Judgement begins in God's house and this nation is viewed world wide as a Christian NATION in some form or fashion......and history is replete with many nations that lasted a little over 200 years....give or take.

"I will make youths their leaders, and unstable rulers will govern them." The people will oppress one another, man against man, neighbor against neighbor; the young will act arrogantly toward the old, and the worthless toward the honorable.

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. My people, those who lead you cause you to err, and destroy the way of your paths.

Sadly I think you are right.
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
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#43
We hold these thruths to be that all men are created equal……...
That is neither the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. It is in the 'Declaration of Independence'. And no one really believed it as they had already had and were continuing the war against the Indians in North America. The already had slaves and would continue to have slaves.

Plus, Jefferson was just wrong. No one is created equal. Equality is a utopian pipe dream.

Quantrill
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
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#44
No one is created equal. Equality is a utopian pipe dream.

Quantrill
So understanding that the biological species of man consists of a male and a female, along with the immutable fact that each person has a physical body that is created from the procreative process called cell fusion in which a new cell is formed from the male gemate and female gamete. In which the new cell contains a unique genetic code which meets the precepts of being created, then yes, it is easy to hold that all truths are self evident that all Men are created equally.

"We hold these truths to be self evidence, that all Men are created equal……... "

However, as written in the scriptures, sons of men are estanged from the womb, they go astray as soon as the be born, speaking lies

Thank you saying that "no one is created equal"

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Rom 3:23

Since 'for all' would infer both male and female, and not that all "Men' have sinned .
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,231
6,529
113
#45
That is neither the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. It is in the 'Declaration of Independence'. And no one really believed it as they had already had and were continuing the war against the Indians in North America. The already had slaves and would continue to have slaves.

Plus, Jefferson was just wrong. No one is created equal. Equality is a utopian pipe dream.
Quantrill
Whether it is inthe Declaration or in the Constitution.it is the foundatioal teaching of our funding fathers.

YOu are affording your opinion, and this is your right. Now continue with others...I have finished here.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,231
6,529
113
#46
So understanding that the biological species of man consists of a male and a female, along with the immutable fact that each person has a physical body that is created from the procreative process called cell fusion in which a new cell is formed from the male gemate and female gamete. In which the new cell contains a unique genetic code which meets the precepts of being created, then yes, it is easy to hold that all truths are self evident that all Men are created equally.

"We hold these truths to be self evidence, that all Men are created equal……... "

However, as written in the scriptures, sons of men are estanged from the womb, they go astray as soon as the be born, speaking lies

Thank you saying that "no one is created equal"

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Rom 3:23

Since 'for all' would infer both male and female, and not that all "Men' have sinned .
Please bear in mind this forum is direct to those who believe God.

I believe God creates the suls within us……….they are all the same in His Eyes, this is in the book.

As for the roles we each have in this age, this too will pass for we are creted equal while mankind is limited to procreation. Understand the difference.

Yes, I am guilty……….I believe God.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,231
6,529
113
#47
That is neither the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. It is in the 'Declaration of Independence'. And no one really believed it as they had already had and were continuing the war against the Indians in North America. The already had slaves and would continue to have slaves.

Plus, Jefferson was just wrong. No one is created equal. Equality is a utopian pipe dream.

Quantrill

It stands to reasson, if the Declaration of Independence means anything to us as US citizens it is defact a part of the preamble of the Constitution…..The Bill of Rights etc. for they are all products of the founding fathers' thinking and beliefs………...
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
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#48
I am sure your commentary about D was inaccurate and I'll go further (being on this site for a long time and in support of his posts) and say how bigoted you sounded in your response to his OP.
Want to talk about bigoted, "having or revealing an obstinate belief in the superiority of one's own opinions and a prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others." Then let's talk about calling people murderers based upon nothing more than your own opinion that a human soul is born upon the cell fusion of the male gamete and female gamete is the very essence of bigoted.

So what principle do you judge me as bigoted for expressing my opinion in regards to the opinion that another member was expressing. Moreover, knowing that the doctrine of Christ are the principles formed by the two immutable things, then I won't bother waiting for you to reply with one since you would it would have been the basis upon which you made you judgement of me. Therefore I will consider your judgment as one that abideth not as written 2 John 9 since you left them behind according to Hebrews 6:1, or never had them to begin with.

While I would love nothing more than once began that no procreative process would ever be terminated, and I do believe that once surfactant is present that the unborn is viable and is entitled to Constitutional protection. It wouldn't surprise me if you don't recognize the correlation between the babe that leaped in the womb of Elizabeth at six months and the development of surfactant iaround the 24th week in the developing babe, Well in conclusion, I guess you really set me in my place.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,942
8,663
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#49
That is neither the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. It is in the 'Declaration of Independence'. And no one really believed it as they had already had and were continuing the war against the Indians in North America. The already had slaves and would continue to have slaves.

Plus, Jefferson was just wrong. No one is created equal. Equality is a utopian pipe dream.

Quantrill
We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

What they are holding as self evident is that all men are created equal in RIGHTS, not ability or outcome.

There were a contingent of signers that ardently wanted the abolition of slavery. But the Union could not have formed because of the protestations of mostly southern reps. It was deemed more important to form the Union to fight the British, then insist on abolition.

BUT, they put the mechanisms in place to address this issue.

I find it bizarre that you often defend slavery. Why do you do that?
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
#50
So understanding that the biological species of man consists of a male and a female, along with the immutable fact that each person has a physical body that is created from the procreative process called cell fusion in which a new cell is formed from the male gemate and female gamete. In which the new cell contains a unique genetic code which meets the precepts of being created, then yes, it is easy to hold that all truths are self evident that all Men are created equally.

"We hold these truths to be self evidence, that all Men are created equal……... "

However, as written in the scriptures, sons of men are estanged from the womb, they go astray as soon as the be born, speaking lies

Thank you saying that "no one is created equal"

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Rom 3:23

Since 'for all' would infer both male and female, and not that all "Men' have sinned .
Just because man is made up of the same material doesn't make all men equal. Not the same shape, height, color, intelligence, personality, etc, etc, etc.

That all are men, doesn't make them equal. That all are sinners doesn't make them equal.

In other words, trying to transfer equality to every aspect of man just because he is created by God, doesn't work.

Your welcome.

Quantrill
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
#51
Whether it is inthe Declaration or in the Constitution.it is the foundatioal teaching of our funding fathers.

YOu are affording your opinion, and this is your right. Now continue with others...I have finished here.
You just need to get your documents right when you make your statements. Slavery was a foundational teaching of our founding fathers and protected by the Constitution. Do you agree? Oh, never mind, I see you have finished here.

Quantrill
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
#52
It stands to reasson, if the Declaration of Independence means anything to us as US citizens it is defact a part of the preamble of the Constitution…..The Bill of Rights etc. for they are all products of the founding fathers' thinking and beliefs………...
What stands to reason is you didn't know what you're talking about. Now you try and make the Declaration part of the Constitution. The Constitution protected slavery. So the only revisionist here is you. I thought you were finished here?

Quantrill
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
#53
We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

What they are holding as self evident is that all men are created equal in RIGHTS, not ability or outcome.

There were a contingent of signers that ardently wanted the abolition of slavery. But the Union could not have formed because of the protestations of mostly southern reps. It was deemed more important to form the Union to fight the British, then insist on abolition.

BUT, they put the mechanisms in place to address this issue.

I find it bizarre that you often defend slavery. Why do you do that?
Concerning the Consitution, the Union was already formed by this time. They were just creating another Constitution.

The mechanism they put in place protected slavery. Article 4 section 2.

I do it because people have made it the 'evil' of all things. And it is not. So all you have to do is bring up slavery and every white person must hang their head down and pity the poor black man. Feel guilty. Give him what he wants...after all he used to be a slave. God instituted slavery. Not me. Not the South. God.

And by the way, are you not a slave of God? Have you not been bought and paid for? Is God a slave Master? Or are you too good to be a slave.

Quantrill
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,231
6,529
113
#54
There were also endentured servants at one time nothing less than slaves.

I pity any who think themselves superior to others...….especially when claiming to believe God.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,719
829
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#55
don't worry or fret DC, your heart is so precious, it's almost heart-breaking, for your Love for your
brothers and sisters in Chirst - we Love you so much, and where God's heart is leading you to...
And we you brother, I can see value in each and every one of His children, and He calls us to be ONE. What does that mean? I know for a fact that I don't believe the same as I did when I was first reborn 9-29-13 (on that day), my spirit has been made alive by His grace, and I am reconciled to Him in His Spirit and He guides me to all truth through this Spirit as He does ALL His children.

I truly feel that this kind of "line in the sand" attitude within the body is so against everything He came to do. I mean these truths are Life and I know we can't compromise any of His Truth, and I trust Him to guide those others to truth as He has me so far. I also have a much better chance of sharing these truths with others in a meaningful way if it's a less combative nature. I may be who God sends to reveal a certain truth to my brother, and he may very well be who God sends to open my eyes to something in my blind spot. That's the beauty of our Awesome God, He takes us petty, wicked, people of the flesh and transforms us, then tells us first and foremost to LOVE EACH OTHER, that is how they will know we're His.

This is why I really don't care for the internet to discuss these things honestly, face to face interaction is so much more complete an experience. Too much is lost in text alone. Anyway I love you OldtheNew, (rhymed on purpose) DC and you other guys too, (still on purpose) and pray we are all draw closer to our King to further His kingdom, and speak life into this world as we are called to do (this one was an accident), and pray this in Jesus name. Amen
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,231
6,529
113
#56
What stands to reason is you didn't know what you're talking about. Now you try and make the Declaration part of the Constitution. The Constitution protected slavery. So the only revisionist here is you. I thought you were finished here?

Quantrill
I returned because my paraphrase was wrong. As for revisionist, according to your words the revision occurred with the founding fathers' allowing for slavery after making the Declartion..........the de facto beginning of the actual preamble........


This is the way I see it, and opinions are allowed just as I mentioned your opinionation is allowed............the bottom line is we are all creted equal in the eyes of God for He is the Creator.

You want a political rtally not a discussion on the equality of souls in the ssight of God.
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
#57
There were also endentured servants at one time nothing less than slaves.

I pity any who think themselves superior to others...….especially when claiming to believe God.
Superior?....oh yes...another buzz word. Evil.

Quantrill
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,231
6,529
113
#58
Superior?....oh yes...another buzz word. Evil.

Quantrill

My use of the "buzz" word is in reference to anyone who believes they are superior to others…….there is a very large minority of this poor old world who are better offf than the majority, but this by no means makes them superior...….thank God most do not think in these terms.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#59
Superior?....oh yes...another buzz word. Evil.

Quantrill
Would you agree you must be a slave if somebody has more strength than you, given by technology, war etc?

Would you be a good and submissive slave, loving your master and would you be patient in every beating you will get for your laziness?
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
#60
I returned because my paraphrase was wrong. As for revisionist, according to your words the revision occurred with the founding fathers' allowing for slavery after making the Declartion..........the de facto beginning of the actual preamble........


This is the way I see it, and opinions are allowed just as I mentioned your opinionation is allowed............the bottom line is we are all creted equal in the eyes of God for He is the Creator.

You want a political rtally not a discussion on the equality of souls in the ssight of God.
Sure. Tells me a lot. Your facts were wrong, not your wording.

Slavery always existed even as Jefferson wrote the Declaration. By Jefferson himself. No revision in the Constitution. They were maintaining the existent institution.

Was slavery protected by the Constitution or not?

You're the one that began a political rally in your post #5. Not me. I just wanted to correct your mistakes.

Quantrill