The Error of KJV-Onlyism
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I am not confusing you with anyone else. You wrote this in post #2942 (with my emphases added)...
You are redefining what constitutes "error" so that you can deny that the KJV has any errors. That is exactly the behaviour to which "moving the goalposts" refers.
As for this...
No, we just demand that you use THE SAME STANDARDS for the KJV that you use for every other translation. You will refuse because the KJV cannot stand the degree of scrutiny you apply to anything else.
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I am not the person who is refusing to use the same standards for all translations. I judge all translations by their accuracy, readability, independence of the translators, etc. Clearly the KJV is not easily readable, since it is written in archaic English. The translators were ordered by King James to conform to his personal theology, which just happened to glorify his secular rule, And the sources that are available to translators today are better than they were four centuries ago, as is the discipline of Bible scholarship.
Those are facts, not opinions.
You are redefining what constitutes "error" so that you can deny that the KJV has any errors. That is exactly the behaviour to which "moving the goalposts" refers.
As for this...
No, we just demand that you use THE SAME STANDARDS for the KJV that you use for every other translation. You will refuse because the KJV cannot stand the degree of scrutiny you apply to anything else.
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I am not the person who is refusing to use the same standards for all translations. I judge all translations by their accuracy, readability, independence of the translators, etc. Clearly the KJV is not easily readable, since it is written in archaic English. The translators were ordered by King James to conform to his personal theology, which just happened to glorify his secular rule, And the sources that are available to translators today are better than they were four centuries ago, as is the discipline of Bible scholarship.
Those are facts, not opinions.
Sure about that?
Psalm 37:13
The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.
Psalm 2:4
He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
Psalm 59:8
But You, O Lord, laugh at them;
You scoff at all the nations.
And, let's not forget the time Jesus called Herod effeminate!
Luke 13:32
And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that FOX, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
My post #2936 was written to "Bible_Highlighter", explaining where he was "moving the goalposts" after saying that my accusation of doing so required evidence. You responded to it in #2942 as though I had written it to you, saying this:
"In case you're not aware... King James is l-o-n-g dead. And His personal (corrupt) standards died with him."
and
"What do you have against scholarship???"
None of that seems to connect with anything in my post 2936.
You and I have bounced posts back and forth several times since, and all the while I have been wondering why you are criticizing me, as all of your comments seem to be addressing things B-H has said. In other words, What is your issue with me?
"In case you're not aware... King James is l-o-n-g dead. And His personal (corrupt) standards died with him."
and
"What do you have against scholarship???"
None of that seems to connect with anything in my post 2936.
You and I have bounced posts back and forth several times since, and all the while I have been wondering why you are criticizing me, as all of your comments seem to be addressing things B-H has said. In other words, What is your issue with me?
As you know, I believe the word “Easter” is a synonym for “Passover.”
It’s a reference to the Jewish Passover.
So obviously no problem in the KJV here.
Oh, and yes, I agree that Jesus is our Passover Lamb. But if the word “Easter” in Acts 12:4 is a reference to the Jewish Passover, IN ADDITION to it being a word that is now changed in meaning for Christians after the cross, then we should see this change also in 1 Corinthians 5:7 when Paul speaks of our Passover Lamb. Meaning, Paul should say that Jesus is our “Easter” Lamb if the word “Passover” has changed to “Easter” after the resurrection if Acts 12:4 is conveying this truth. I know. I get it. We want to always have an answer or not make it appear like the KJV may be difficult to understand at times. But truth is truth. Sometimes an answer is not always so easily available. The important thing is we do have a pure Word of God that we can hold in our hands and they don’t. The promises of God demand that we have a perfect book and this is shown to be true ten thousand times over with the KJV.
Praise be unto the Lord Jesus for His perfect Word He has given us this day.
It’s a reference to the Jewish Passover.
So obviously no problem in the KJV here.
Oh, and yes, I agree that Jesus is our Passover Lamb. But if the word “Easter” in Acts 12:4 is a reference to the Jewish Passover, IN ADDITION to it being a word that is now changed in meaning for Christians after the cross, then we should see this change also in 1 Corinthians 5:7 when Paul speaks of our Passover Lamb. Meaning, Paul should say that Jesus is our “Easter” Lamb if the word “Passover” has changed to “Easter” after the resurrection if Acts 12:4 is conveying this truth. I know. I get it. We want to always have an answer or not make it appear like the KJV may be difficult to understand at times. But truth is truth. Sometimes an answer is not always so easily available. The important thing is we do have a pure Word of God that we can hold in our hands and they don’t. The promises of God demand that we have a perfect book and this is shown to be true ten thousand times over with the KJV.
Praise be unto the Lord Jesus for His perfect Word He has given us this day.
The problem is that you do not have any Bible that you can hold in your hands and claim it to be the perfect, inerrant, inspired words of God today and so therefore, you become the authority in what God said and did not say. So you are your own authority, and its not the Bible (or the words of God). As I pointed out numerous times in this thread, Scripture gives us multiple examples of God giving us translations. Do you believe the sign on the cross that was translated into different languages is in error because no translation can be perfect? In order for you to be consistent in your belief, you would have to claim error in this instance. You would have to go even further down the road into Bible agnosticism in order to claim that no translation can be perfect. Feel free to deny the Bible altogether if you like. You said you were saved without the Bible. So why bother even using it? You can have your make believe antibiblical Jesus if you like. Just know that Jesus said that if you do not receive His words, they will judge you on the last day (John 12:48). This means that there has to be a certain set words of Jesus that we can trust and reply upon. If we are not certain as to the precise words of Jesus, then we could not really be held accountable to them. The Bible of the week club changes the words of God at the drop of a dime. That is no standard or consistency. It's confusion, and God is not the author of confusion. But you are free to make up God however you please that contradicts Scripture. Just know that Jesus quoted Scripture as an authority many times. He even did so as a part of defeating the devil. You guys always try to downplay the Word of God, and yet if you ever studied the Bible before, you would know that Jesus quotes Scripture as an authority. You take away the Scriptures by supporting men who change them and or you say you can be saved without them (When that contradicts Scripture). Again, there is no real point to explain this to you unless you are broken before God by His Word. People can claim all day long that they accepted Jesus Christ, but if they do not come to the truth of how it was God's Word that changes them, they simply are believing in another Jesus. I say this not to wound you but to lead you to the truth to change for the better. Your statement about walls of text should alarm the true believer. What you see as walls of text that probably bores you to tears, is the delight and treasure to God's people (Psalms 119:140, and Psalms 119:162).
Don’t be ridiculous. My comments were a direct response to someone else’s post, just as your comments here are a direct response to my post.
Until you explain how your original and subsequent comments to me are in any way relevant to either my post 2936 or my stance on this subject, I will consider your criticism baseless and not worthy of further consideration.
Be relevant, or be silent.
Until you explain how your original and subsequent comments to me are in any way relevant to either my post 2936 or my stance on this subject, I will consider your criticism baseless and not worthy of further consideration.
Be relevant, or be silent.
Here is the part of #2936 that is of interest (the goalposts nonsense is not of interest)...
You are redefining what constitutes "error" so that you can deny that the KJV has any errors. That is exactly the behaviour to which "moving the goalposts" refers.
As for this...
No, we just demand that you use THE SAME STANDARDS for the KJV that you use for every other translation. You will refuse because the KJV cannot stand the degree of scrutiny you apply to anything else.
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Error means "an act, assertion, or belief that unintentionally deviates from what is correct, right, or true". If you think that the KJV is error-free, you are deluded. Which version of the KJV is without error? There have been several major revisions and quite a few minor revisions, so which version is the perfect one? (I'll give you a hint: none of them!) They are all translations created by fallible men from a bunch of early manuscripts and previous translations, none of which were perfect.
Why can't you admit that the King James Bible is a) just one of many translations, b) imperfect, c) written in archaic Englyshe that many people find difficult to clearly understand, d) was created by fallible human beings under the direction of a megalomaniac, and e) has been changed over time. THOSE ARE FACTS, NOT OPINIONS.
I find it very sad that you and others worship a book, just like the Jews worship the torah. They are imperfect words of God, but they are not God! They are creations of men!
If you truly mean "I will consider your criticism baseless and not worthy of further consideration", fine, then leave the discussion.
You are redefining what constitutes "error" so that you can deny that the KJV has any errors. That is exactly the behaviour to which "moving the goalposts" refers.
As for this...
No, we just demand that you use THE SAME STANDARDS for the KJV that you use for every other translation. You will refuse because the KJV cannot stand the degree of scrutiny you apply to anything else.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Error means "an act, assertion, or belief that unintentionally deviates from what is correct, right, or true". If you think that the KJV is error-free, you are deluded. Which version of the KJV is without error? There have been several major revisions and quite a few minor revisions, so which version is the perfect one? (I'll give you a hint: none of them!) They are all translations created by fallible men from a bunch of early manuscripts and previous translations, none of which were perfect.
Why can't you admit that the King James Bible is a) just one of many translations, b) imperfect, c) written in archaic Englyshe that many people find difficult to clearly understand, d) was created by fallible human beings under the direction of a megalomaniac, and e) has been changed over time. THOSE ARE FACTS, NOT OPINIONS.
I find it very sad that you and others worship a book, just like the Jews worship the torah. They are imperfect words of God, but they are not God! They are creations of men!
If you truly mean "I will consider your criticism baseless and not worthy of further consideration", fine, then leave the discussion.
The origin of the word "Easter" is not that simple to figure out. Theologians and church historians have debated this many times over.
It's not something you can just make a quick judgment on because some dictionary says it. Men who create dictionaries can sometimes be wrong.
Here are some articles for you to consider:
https://www.gotquestions.org/Easter-pagan-holiday.html
https://answersingenesis.org/holidays/easter/is-the-name-easter-of-pagan-origin/
Looing at the Eytmology of the word "Easter" has a possible meaning in that it refers to the East where the sun rises (i.e., the dawn). Jesus is referred to as the Bright and Morning Star (i.e., the sun). Jesus is the Light of the World.
The paganization of good words in Christianity should be no surprise in this dark and fallen world.
Even Modern Bibles refer to Lucifer as the morning star or day star in Isaiah 14:12. But morning star is a reference to Jesus. Day star is a reference to Jesus. We also see a corruption of Satan trying to be like Jesus in Daniel 3, as well. This is no surprise because Satan desires to be like the Most High God.
In addition, Howard S Vos was one of the creators of the New Unger's Bible Dictionary. (Source).
Howard was a Calvinist. You can check his obituary and it says he was a part of the Tenth Presbyterian Church (Source). This church is associated with the Reformed or Calvinistic tradition (Source).
It's not something you can just make a quick judgment on because some dictionary says it. Men who create dictionaries can sometimes be wrong.
Here are some articles for you to consider:
https://www.gotquestions.org/Easter-pagan-holiday.html
https://answersingenesis.org/holidays/easter/is-the-name-easter-of-pagan-origin/
Looing at the Eytmology of the word "Easter" has a possible meaning in that it refers to the East where the sun rises (i.e., the dawn). Jesus is referred to as the Bright and Morning Star (i.e., the sun). Jesus is the Light of the World.
The paganization of good words in Christianity should be no surprise in this dark and fallen world.
Even Modern Bibles refer to Lucifer as the morning star or day star in Isaiah 14:12. But morning star is a reference to Jesus. Day star is a reference to Jesus. We also see a corruption of Satan trying to be like Jesus in Daniel 3, as well. This is no surprise because Satan desires to be like the Most High God.
In addition, Howard S Vos was one of the creators of the New Unger's Bible Dictionary. (Source).
Howard was a Calvinist. You can check his obituary and it says he was a part of the Tenth Presbyterian Church (Source). This church is associated with the Reformed or Calvinistic tradition (Source).
GOD can take life as He pleases, but that does not mean you can take life as you please (Which would be murder).
GOD can be worshiped. Even Jesus (Who is GOD) was worshiped. But that does not mean you can be worshiped.
GOD (JESUS) created the universe. But that does not mean you also created the universe.
In other words, there are certain things GOD does that you cannot do.
God is aware of all things and He is aware of men’s hearts and thoughts.
We do not have such power and so if you laugh at somebody, you could come off as cold and mean to others because it makes it appear like you do not care about them. God can legitimately laugh at a wicked person who has refused to repent and who has been given multiple chances to change and yet has hardened themselves against GOD. Only God knows what the fate of this person is going to be. We cannot predict a person's future. They could repent in the last second of their false ways or beliefs. God's grace can save people in the most unexpected ways. We see it with the apostle Paul. What looked like public enemy #1 of the Christians (Saul), turned out to be one of the greatest men in Christianity (Paul).
Proverbs 24:17
"Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth:"
Jesus says,
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (Matthew 5:44).
Colossians 4:6
"Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man."
Do you have the love of 1 Corinthians 13 when you laugh at others? Are you genuinely concerned for their soul, or are you laughing because you feel they are stupid and they are beneath you?
God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).
GOD can be worshiped. Even Jesus (Who is GOD) was worshiped. But that does not mean you can be worshiped.
GOD (JESUS) created the universe. But that does not mean you also created the universe.
In other words, there are certain things GOD does that you cannot do.
God is aware of all things and He is aware of men’s hearts and thoughts.
We do not have such power and so if you laugh at somebody, you could come off as cold and mean to others because it makes it appear like you do not care about them. God can legitimately laugh at a wicked person who has refused to repent and who has been given multiple chances to change and yet has hardened themselves against GOD. Only God knows what the fate of this person is going to be. We cannot predict a person's future. They could repent in the last second of their false ways or beliefs. God's grace can save people in the most unexpected ways. We see it with the apostle Paul. What looked like public enemy #1 of the Christians (Saul), turned out to be one of the greatest men in Christianity (Paul).
Proverbs 24:17
"Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth:"
Jesus says,
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (Matthew 5:44).
Colossians 4:6
"Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man."
Do you have the love of 1 Corinthians 13 when you laugh at others? Are you genuinely concerned for their soul, or are you laughing because you feel they are stupid and they are beneath you?
God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).
This is the standard cookie cutter response I get by Christians over the many years. They just repeat this statement without them being a good Berean on the matter. In short, they have not done their own homework in Scripture to find out the real truth on the matter.
According to Scripture: There are going to be two different types of resurrections for believers who will be taken up into the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Those who are not taken up or raptured will not experience the two different resurrections but only the final one.
#1. Spiritual body type resurrection (like the body of angels).
Jesus said we will not be given into marriage but we will be like the angels. Flesh and blood will not inherit the Kingdom (i.e., the Kingdom in Heaven). This will be all the saints who will be take up or raptured either sometimes before the Tribulation or sometime in the first half of the tribulation period.
#2. Flesh and blood body type resurrection. Revelation talks about how those who are beheaded for Christ will live and reign with Christ a thousand years. This is the Millennium or the one thousand year reign of Christ. Scripture talks about how people can die in the Millennium due to sin. Ezekiel talks about how flesh will come upon the dry bones in the valley. This is in reference to Israel in the fact that God has a plan to bring them back to accept their Messiah, Jesus Christ. So both Jews and Gentiles will live in the Millennium or the 1,000 year reign of Christ. After this time, the Judgment will happen, and then will begin the New Earth (Which appears to be a new planet altogether).
The two resurrections is alluded to by our Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 22:30.
According to Scripture: There are going to be two different types of resurrections for believers who will be taken up into the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Those who are not taken up or raptured will not experience the two different resurrections but only the final one.
#1. Spiritual body type resurrection (like the body of angels).
Jesus said we will not be given into marriage but we will be like the angels. Flesh and blood will not inherit the Kingdom (i.e., the Kingdom in Heaven). This will be all the saints who will be take up or raptured either sometimes before the Tribulation or sometime in the first half of the tribulation period.
#2. Flesh and blood body type resurrection. Revelation talks about how those who are beheaded for Christ will live and reign with Christ a thousand years. This is the Millennium or the one thousand year reign of Christ. Scripture talks about how people can die in the Millennium due to sin. Ezekiel talks about how flesh will come upon the dry bones in the valley. This is in reference to Israel in the fact that God has a plan to bring them back to accept their Messiah, Jesus Christ. So both Jews and Gentiles will live in the Millennium or the 1,000 year reign of Christ. After this time, the Judgment will happen, and then will begin the New Earth (Which appears to be a new planet altogether).
The two resurrections is alluded to by our Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 22:30.
Passover week (including the days of unleavened bread and firstfruits) or Passover day?
Christ gave Himself on the day of Passover, and rose on the day of Firstfruits.
if easter is supposedly a synonym, it should wither be a week, not a single day, or it should be the day of the crucifixion, not the resurrection.
in either case it's not a synonym, it's a rejection of the Levitical feast days in favor of a man-made day. and i have no issue with celebrating foe example Christmas, even though the day is probably far wrong for when Christ was born, but it doesn't make it legitimate to translate Pascha as a purely man-made holiday in the scripture. it's simply not an accurate representation of what the scripture says in its original language - you may as well go through the OT and replace Yom Kippur with arbor day lol
Christ gave Himself on the day of Passover, and rose on the day of Firstfruits.
if easter is supposedly a synonym, it should wither be a week, not a single day, or it should be the day of the crucifixion, not the resurrection.
in either case it's not a synonym, it's a rejection of the Levitical feast days in favor of a man-made day. and i have no issue with celebrating foe example Christmas, even though the day is probably far wrong for when Christ was born, but it doesn't make it legitimate to translate Pascha as a purely man-made holiday in the scripture. it's simply not an accurate representation of what the scripture says in its original language - you may as well go through the OT and replace Yom Kippur with arbor day lol
Then why don't you write more clearly? Why do you think that the problem lies with me?
Until you explain how your original and subsequent comments to me are in any way relevant, I will consider your criticism baseless and not worthy of further consideration.
Be relevant, or be silent.
Until you explain how your original and subsequent comments to me are in any way relevant, I will consider your criticism baseless and not worthy of further consideration.
Be relevant, or be silent.
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Sure it is! It's documented history about eastra, the goddess of spring
You can use the word easter all you'd like.
I'm not going to use easter. I'll use the word passover which originated in the old testament and since Jesus is our passover, it fits in with what the Lord is telling us in His Word.
Well, the Lord can laugh at false doctrine and I can too!
That's false. The gifts and callings of God are without repentance.
He put me in a physical body and I'll always have a physical body.
if I go in the rapture my body will immediately be changed to a glorified body as I go up.
If I croak before the rapture, I'll be in the presence of the Lord while my body is in the grave and at the rapture I will return with Him being reunited with my body and it will be changed to a glorified body.
You do what you want, but I'm a joint heir with Christ Jesus so I will have a glorified physical body just like He has now!
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"they" meaning only english-speakers, only 1600 years after the scripture was actually written...
or hebrew?
or a different, pre-babel language?
Zephaniah 3:9
For then I will restore to the peoples a pure language, that they all may call on the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one accord.
is this prophesying elizabethton english? or hebrew?
or a different, pre-babel language?