The errors of Augustine of Hippo.

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Scotth1960

Guest
#261
#261
livingbygrace said:
I did know that the Son is called 'Mighty God' in Isiah:9:6

And he is a mighty God indeed. But of course he is not the one true God, for to be consistent if you accept Isiaih 9:6 you must also accept John 17:3

May I refer you to Heb 1:9, John 10:35 and I will wirte out a new one

For even if there are so called gods whether in Heaven or on earthj(as indeed there are many gods and many Lords) yet for us there is but one God, THE FATHER from whom all things came ands for whom we live, and one Lord Jesus Christ THROUGH whom all things came and through whom we live

1 Cor 8:5&6

So there you go, Paul agrees with Christ, there is only one, true, God, the Father
Then of course John agrees with Christ and Paul as well because he says
No-one has seen God, but he was with Christ constantly for three years

But then you have those Nicean counsels don't you. And I guess they knew more than Paul, John and Christ himself. Such is the 'human brilliance' of man

BTW

How come it took them over 300 years after Christ's death to make it official?
I mean, if this is the basis for everlasting life it should have been much sooner than that shouldn't it?
What if before those councils a person only believed Christ was the son of God, could they go to Heaven?
Would Glod blame them for not knowing the truth? Or the church for not making it official church policy?
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How do you know what the people before 325 AD were thinking? How do you know they didn't believe in persons? Are you a mind-reader. As it is, you already cited some ANF who said "persons" and "Trinity" in the 200s. As for the first couple hundreds of years AD, it's rather difficult, don't you think, to read every passage of Scripture and then sit down and figure out whether or not Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are persons, when you're being put to death by the Roman emperors for believing in Jesus Christ? Take care. In Erie / Scott

 
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Scotth1960

Guest
#262
#262
livingbygrace said:
I did know that the Son is called 'Mighty God' in Isiah:9:6

And he is a mighty God indeed. But of course he is not the one true God, for to be consistent if you accept Isiaih 9:6 you must also accept John 17:3

May I refer you to Heb 1:9, John 10:35 and I will wirte out a new one

For even if there are so called gods whether in Heaven or on earthj(as indeed there are many gods and many Lords) yet for us there is but one God, THE FATHER from whom all things came ands for whom we live, and one Lord Jesus Christ THROUGH whom all things came and through whom we live

1 Cor 8:5&6

So there you go, Paul agrees with Christ, there is only one, true, God, the Father
Then of course John agrees with Christ and Paul as well because he says
No-one has seen God, but he was with Christ constantly for three years

But then you have those Nicean counsels don't you. And I guess they knew more than Paul, John and Christ himself. Such is the 'human brilliance' of man

BTW

How come it took them over 300 years after Christ's death to make it official?
I mean, if this is the basis for everlasting life it should have been much sooner than that shouldn't it?
What if before those councils a person only believed Christ was the son of God, could they go to Heaven?
Would Glod blame them for not knowing the truth? Or the church for not making it official church policy?
Click to expand...
Christ is "the Mighty God" but He is not "the one true God" you say? Double talk! Error! Sounds like JW talk, "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was a god." Not much difference from Watchtower teaching. Christ is not a second God alongside "the one true God." The One True God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. See Isaiah 44:6. There is only one God (Isaiah 44:6), and He is "the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19). Take care. In Erie/ Scott

 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#263
Dec 19, 2009
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#263
Scotth1960 said:
You deny sola Scriptura, but demand it in practice in demanding Scripture say "persons" before you believe it. The intention of Scripture is known to the Church, as the Church is "the pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15), and the Church says "persons". It's illogical to accept the Scriptures of the Church, and reject the Church of the Scriptures. In Erie / Scott
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Well if the church is/always was the pillar of truth, why did it take them over 300 years after the death of Christ before they made it official that Christ was God?
Does that mean that for the preceding 300 years they were not the church of truth?
After all we are talking about something here that you believe precludes someone from having eternal life

How could the church have failed so badly and not made it official policy from the begining?
 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#264
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
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#264
Scotth1960 said:
Christ is "the Mighty God" but He is not "the one true God" you say? Double talk! Error! Sounds like JW talk, "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was a god." Not much difference from Watchtower teaching. Christ is not a second God alongside "the one true God." The One True God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. See Isaiah 44:6. There is only one God (Isaiah 44:6), and He is "the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19). Take care. In Erie/ Scott
Click to expand...
Not much has changed has it Scott. You completely ignore plain scripture that Paul wrote, you have no answer to it so just go off on a tangent. Oh well, never mind
And it is I am sure error to the natural 'intellectual mind, but according to the Father Christ has the title God, but the Father is still Christ's God Heb 1:9

Slo I guess you believe the Father Himself is in error
 
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PneumaPsucheSoma

Banned
#265
Feb 23, 2011
1,708
13
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#265
Scotth1960 said:
You deny sola Scriptura, but demand it in practice in demanding Scripture say "persons" before you believe it. The intention of Scripture is known to the Church, as the Church is "the pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15), and the Church says "persons". It's illogical to accept the Scriptures of the Church, and reject the Church of the Scriptures. In Erie / Scott
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I've made it clear. The Word isn't just silent; it says something ELSE.

Why would I accept those who reject the very scripture they canonized?

Just enjoy your doctrine.
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#266
#266
livingbygrace said:
Well if the church is/always was the pillar of truth, why did it take them over 300 years after the death of Christ before they made it official that Christ was God?
Does that mean that for the preceding 300 years they were not the church of truth?
After all we are talking about something here that you believe precludes someone from having eternal life

How could the church have failed so badly and not made it official policy from the begining?
Click to expand...
Do you or I reveal everything in the Gospel all at once? If it takes time to share the teaching in the Bible from one person, the same is true in the Church. Does it mean they didn't believe the Creed of 381 AD before it was written? A person can believe something without being able to say it or write it down. In Erie/ Scott PS/ You assume the church failed so badly, but that you or I do not fail so badly. We should look at how we fail before criticizing the church for its alleged failure.

 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#267
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
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#267
Scotth1960 said:
Do you or I reveal everything in the Gospel all at once? If it takes time to share the teaching in the Bible from one person, the same is true in the Church. Does it mean they didn't believe the Creed of 381 AD before it was written? A person can believe something without being able to say it or write it down. In Erie/ Scott PS/ You assume the church failed so badly, but that you or I do not fail so badly. We should look at how we fail before criticizing the church for its alleged failure.
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Rubblish

You say the church is INFALLIBLE. Therefore, how can it not have been official church policy that Christ is God until over 300 years after Christ died on the cross.
If this were some minor matter that would be different
But YOU believe that a persoin has to believe Christ is God to have eternal life

If you are correct(AND I SAY IF) then the church failed hopelessly to make official what was neccessary to have eternal life for over 300 years after Christ died on the cross.
And they must have failed ABYSMALLY if your belief is correct.

Would the Holy Spirit not have ensured that the true church made plain and OFFICIAL what was needed to have eterrnal life from the start?

This is unarguable, (OR SHOULD I SAY IT SHOULD BE)
 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#268
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
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#268
livingbygrace said:
Rubblish

You say the church is INFALLIBLE. Therefore, how can it not have been official church policy that Christ is God until over 300 years after Christ died on the cross.
If this were some minor matter that would be different
But YOU believe that a persoin has to believe Christ is God to have eternal life

If you are correct(AND I SAY IF) then the church failed hopelessly to make official what was neccessary to have eternal life for over 300 years after Christ died on the cross.
And they must have failed ABYSMALLY if your belief is correct.

Would the Holy Spirit not have ensured that the true church made plain and OFFICIAL what was needed to have eterrnal life from the start?

This is unarguable, (OR SHOULD I SAY IT SHOULD BE)
Click to expand...
In fact it is a testimony to the MAN MADE THEOLOGY of much of the church today. The truth of what the Bible ACTUALLY SAYS has been usurped and put to one side by scholars/theologians and the blind have followed the blind

And IMO all because man with his egotistical mind always has to believe that he can come up with new divine revelation of scripture through his natural intellect by pouring over its pages continuously
 
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PneumaPsucheSoma

Banned
#269
Feb 23, 2011
1,708
13
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#269
The Church didn't just require belief in the Deity of Christ; it had to be according to Trinity formulation and terminology specifically.

The Word says none of that.
 
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Scotth1960

Guest
#270
#270
livingbygrace said:
Not much has changed has it Scott. You completely ignore plain scripture that Paul wrote, you have no answer to it so just go off on a tangent. Oh well, never mind
And it is I am sure error to the natural 'intellectual mind, but according to the Father Christ has the title God, but the Father is still Christ's God Heb 1:9

Slo I guess you believe the Father Himself is in error
Click to expand...
You completely ignore 2 Peter 3:14-16. Remember, you need to be extra careful in how you read Paul. It is possible, easily, to misread Paul. God is not a title for Christ. Christ is God. So is the Holy Spirit. So is the Father. It's not three mere titles, it's three Divine Persons. That's what Tradition says. Titles is a "tradition of men". In Erie PA Scott. PS The Father is not in error. You're misreading St. Paul to try to make Christ a "lesser god" than the Father. There is only one God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). Christ isn't a "demi-god."
 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#271
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
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#271
Scotth1960 said:
You completely ignore 2 Peter 3:14-16. Remember, you need to be extra careful in how you read Paul. It is possible, easily, to misread Paul. God is not a title for Christ.

But about the son He says
Your throne O God will last forever and ever
And righteousness will be a sceptre of your kingdom
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness
Therefore GOD, YOUR GOD has set you above your companinons and annointed you with the oil of joy

Heb 1:8&9

It seems the Bible disagrees with you




Christ is God. So is the Holy Spirit. So is the Father. It's not three mere titles, it's three Divine Persons. That's what Tradition says.


The 'infallible church took over 300 years after Christ's death to make official Christ was God, something you say is neccessary to believe to have eternal life
How could an 'infallible' church have failed so badly to inform people and make official something that was neccesaary to believe to have eternal life for over 300 years aftyer Christ's death on the cross?


Titles is a "tradition of men". In Erie PA Scott. PS The Father is not in error. You're misreading St. Paul to try to make Christ a "lesser god" than the Father. There is only one God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). Christ isn't a "demi-god."
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Am I misreading the writer of Hebrews? Or is this just another case of you ignoring scripture to follow the traditions and beliefs of men
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#272
#272
livingbygrace said:
Rubblish

You say the church is INFALLIBLE. Therefore, how can it not have been official church policy that Christ is God until over 300 years after Christ died on the cross.
Click to expand...
livingbygrace said:

If this were some minor matter that would be different
But YOU believe that a persoin has to believe Christ is God to have eternal life

If you are correct(AND I SAY IF) then the church failed hopelessly to make official what was neccessary to have eternal life for over 300 years after Christ died on the cross.
And they must have failed ABYSMALLY if your belief is correct.

Would the Holy Spirit not have ensured that the true church made plain and OFFICIAL what was needed to have eterrnal life from the start?

This is unarguable, (OR SHOULD I SAY IT SHOULD BE)
Click to expand...

You are assuming that you know that the Church for the first 300 years after Christ did not believe Christ is God. On the basis of what fact or facts do you really know that? It's an assumption on your part, not a fact! Take care!
In Erie/ Scott
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#273
#273
livingbygrace said:
Am I misreading the writer of Hebrews? Or is this just another case of you ignoring scripture to follow the traditions and beliefs of men
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ is "God from God". That's what the Creed of 381 AD, the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed says. Scripture says Christ is God the Son, the Son of God. (John 3:16). See what Philippians 2 says about Christ being God. See also all of the First Epistle of St. John. Anyone who denies that Christ is God manifest in the flesh is "Antichrist". In Erie/ Scott
 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#274
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
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#274
Scotth1960 said:
You are assuming that you know that the Church for the first 300 years after Christ did not believe Christ is God. On the basis of what fact or facts do you really know that? It's an assumption on your part, not a fact! Take care!
In Erie/ Scott
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Do you deny that it was not made official in the church until over 300 years after Christ's death on the cross?

So why was a belief that according to YOU is neccessary for a person to have eternal life not OFFICIAL church belief until over 300 years after Christ died on the cross?

An INFALLIBLE church could never be so guilty of such an error. It must be considered a mistake of astronomic proportion IF your belief is correct.

And it weould not say much for the church would it?
 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#275
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
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#275
Scotth1960 said:
Jesus Christ is "God from God". That's what the Creed of 381 AD, the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed says. Scripture says Christ is God the Son, the Son of God. (John 3:16). See what Philippians 2 says about Christ being God. See also all of the First Epistle of St. John. Anyone who denies that Christ is God manifest in the flesh is "Antichrist". In Erie/ Scott
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Why are you quoting scripture to me? You WILL NOT accept the plainest of verses on this subject

You continuously IGNORE them and just put other verses before me that DO NOT say Christ is God Himself
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#276
#276
livingbygrace said:
Do you deny that it was not made official in the church until over 300 years after Christ's death on the cross?

So why was a belief that according to YOU is neccessary for a person to have eternal life not OFFICIAL church belief until over 300 years after Christ died on the cross?

An INFALLIBLE church could never be so guilty of such an error. It must be considered a mistake of astronomic proportion IF your belief is correct.

And it weould not say much for the church would it?
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So do you, as an infallible person, stand above an infallible Church that is 2000 years old, and has always believed Christ is God and has always believed the one true God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Think about it before you give an infallible answer! Me, I'm not infallible, either! In Erie/ Scott
 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#277
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
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#277
Scotth1960 said:
So do you, as an infallible person, stand above an infallible Church that is 2000 years old, and has always believed Christ is God and has always believed the one true God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Think about it before you give an infallible answer! Me, I'm not infallible, either! In Erie/ Scott
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You(as usual) com[pletely ignore the point. I will start a thread on this subject
 
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Scotth1960

Guest
#278
#278
livingbygrace said:
Not much has changed has it Scott. You completely ignore plain scripture that Paul wrote, you have no answer to it so just go off on a tangent. Oh well, never mind
And it is I am sure error to the natural 'intellectual mind, but according to the Father Christ has the title God, but the Father is still Christ's God Heb 1:9

Slo I guess you believe the Father Himself is in error
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Hebrews 1:9. God from God. God the Father talking of God the Son. "God from God" (Creed of Constantinople I, 381 AD). In Erie / Scott
PS So I guess you are joking. I don't believe the Father Himself is in error. You need to stop making false accusations.
 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#279
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
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#279
Scotth1960 said:
Hebrews 1:9. God from God. God the Father talking of God the Son. "God from God" (Creed of Constantinople I, 381 AD). In Erie / Scott
PS So I guess you are joking. I don't believe the Father Himself is in error. You need to stop making false accusations.
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Scott you are so lost in blindly following man.
 
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Scotth1960

Guest
#280
#280

livingbygrace said:
Well if the church is/always was the pillar of truth, why did

it take them over 300 years after the death of Christ before they made it official that

Christ was God?

Does that mean that for the preceding 300 years they were not the church of truth?

After all we are talking about something here that you believe precludes someone from

having eternal life

How could the church have failed so badly and not made it official policy from the

begining?
Click to expand...


How could you presume to judge whether or not the church failed, when Scripture says

the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church? Do you believe that verse, or do you

think the church failed, in contradiction to Matthew 16:18. If the church failed, then this

verse was not fulfilled, and it calls into question the promise of Christ the Saviour, doesn't

it. Perhaps it is you who has failed to understand that the official church did not fail to do

anything, fail to say anything. Since we were not there to witness what the Church

preached, it's presumptive to assume the ministers of the Church did not preach that

Christ is God. That's an assumption, not a proven fact. In Erie / Scott
 
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