The ever-changing ESV Bible

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#81
Jul 31, 2013
36,825
13,187
113
#81
Dino246 said:
Yes... there is a reasonable explanation which traces "unicorn" through the Latin to "rhinoceros". The Linnean (Latin) name for the Greater One-Horned Rhinoceros is "Rhinoceros unicornis".
Click to expand...
no rhinos in the mid-east though. we've been over this a few times; the animal is in all likelihood an aurochs -- an extinct kind of giant ox.
it's a bad translation of the word. there's no harm in admitting that. people so often forget that any Bible in English is a translation. improving that does not change the preserved word, which is not in our common language.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#82
Jul 31, 2013
36,825
13,187
113
#82
hornetguy said:
I haven't studied it, since I don't worship the KJV, but didn't it mention "unicorns" in some of the earliest iterations?
Click to expand...
i really think "cockatrice" in Isaiah 59:5 is a bit more astonishing, tbh, but it seems a lot less popular to bring that up than 'unicorns'

??
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#83
#83
Despite all of that, Angela, you still highly recommend the ESV as your go-to English translation?
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#84
#84
posthuman said:
no rhinos in the mid-east though. we've been over this a few times; the animal is in all likelihood an aurochs -- an extinct kind of giant ox.
it's a bad translation of the word. there's no harm in admitting that. people so often forget that any Bible in English is a translation. improving that does not change the preserved word, which is not in our common language.
Click to expand...
Just because no rhinos live there nowadays doesn't mean that they didn't live there almost 3,000 years ago. For example, lions no longer live in the Middle East, but they used to be super-common. I mean, it's possible that 'unicorn' references an auroch, but it's doubtful since they have two horns.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#85
#85
posthuman said:
i really think "cockatrice" in Isaiah 59:5 is a bit more astonishing, tbh, but it seems a lot less popular to bring that up than 'unicorns'

??
Click to expand...
That's because a cockatrice is purely mythological. That verse is likely referring to another poisonous snake kind.
 
Zmouth

Zmouth

Senior Member
#86
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#86
The unicorn was symbolic of a beast (man) who hath the horn of a king (god).

God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: Num 24:8

And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: Ex 7:1

10 The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them: the LORD shall judge the ends of the earth; and he shall give strength unto his king, and exalt the horn of his anointed.
1 Sam 2:10

The attached drawing was the King of Persia who built the second temple in Jerusalem that was later destroyed in 70 A.D.

Cyprus the Great.jpg
 
R

RobbyEarl

Guest
#87
#87
Hmm, we have missed the theme of the bible and have concentrated on the gnat rather than the elephant, Have we not?
 
Angela53510

Angela53510

Senior Member
#88
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
2,952
113
#88
Tintin said:
Despite all of that, Angela, you still highly recommend the ESV as your go-to English translation?
Click to expand...
Actually, I'm reading Holmans right now. I still post in ESV, so the KJ people can sort of understand with some of the formalism and stiffness. I guess it was translating the Lord's Prayer that was the last straw for me and the ESV. I mean, it is still better than the KJV more understandable, but it was disappointing to hear that the "traditions" of the KJV counted for more than what the Greek and Hebrew actually says!
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#89
#89
Angela53510 said:
Actually, I'm reading Holmans right now. I still post in ESV, so the KJ people can sort of understand with some of the formalism and stiffness. I guess it was translating the Lord's Prayer that was the last straw for me and the ESV. I mean, it is still better than the KJV more understandable, but it was disappointing to hear that the "traditions" of the KJV counted for more than what the Greek and Hebrew actually says!
Click to expand...
I hear you, Angela! That's very disappointing. Is Holman's Christian Standard growing on you? I'm about to begin the NET Bible - Full Notes edition. :)
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#90
Nov 17, 2015
4,025
940
113
#90
John146 said:
The ever-changing, unsettled, wavering, shifting standard of truth of the ESV Bible. Look at the statements made by crossway:

https://www.crossway.org/blog/2016/09/crossway-statement-on-the-esv-bible-text/
Click to expand...
Yes, most of the keywords or phrases are but vindication of the KJV. 13 out 29 verses were seen as similar to KJV. Some are unnecessary changes, omissions and addition or edition where some of the text are change its meaning as being found in the context.

The Bible says because there is no king (authority) in that “…every man did that which was right to his own eyes” Judges 21:25; 17:6. Are we govern by what the Bible says or what one says. The Bible is plain and can be understood with our prayers, diligent study and the illuminating works of the Holy Ghost. The Bible says “meddle not with them that are given to change” Proverbs 24:21. The changes of the text changes Bible doctrine. Bible Doctrine change, our message is change and when the message is change people is not change.

God bless
 
Last edited:
J

John146

Senior Member
#91
Jan 13, 2016
16,757
3,562
113
#91
fredoheaven said:
Yes, most of the keywords or phrases are but vindication of the KJV. 13 out 29 verses were seen as similar to KJV. Some are unnecessary changes, omissions and addition or edition where some of the text are change its meaning as being found in the context.

The Bible says because there is no king (authority) in that “…every man did that which was right to his own eyes” Judges 21:25; 17:6. Are we govern by what the Bible says or what one says. The Bible is plain and can be understood with our prayers, diligent study and the illuminating works of the Holy Ghost. The Bible says “meddle not with them that are given to change” Proverbs 24:21. The changes of the text changes Bible doctrine. Bible Doctrine change, our message is change and when the message is change people is not change.

God bless
Click to expand...
Great point! The changing of one word can change a Bible doctrine.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#92
Jan 13, 2016
16,757
3,562
113
#92
Angela53510 said:
God just told me he was the Saviour of the world and that I would serve him. And I did! About 30 or so years later, I realized that he was paraphrasing John 3:16. Imagine that, God paraphrasing, putting it into the simpliest language so I could live understand.

God saves us, not a book! But God does use many things to save us, and that can include a Bible. In Muslim countries, God uses visions and dreams to save people. My World Religions professor was on Sabbatical from being a missionary in Indonesia. He said he would develop relationships with the people, and then they would come to him with a dream they had about Jesus, and he would lead them to the Lord.

Oh, they never read the KJV, because they spoke Indonesian. And God saved them, anyway! Fancy that!
Click to expand...
How do people even know about the Lord Jesus Christ without the preservation of His words? Faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of God. The gospel of Christ MUST be involved in salvation and the only way we know about the gospel of Christ is through His word. You down play the Bible as if it's just another book among books. That's not what God thinks. As a matter of fact God said about his word: "for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name." Without the word of God, we know nothing about the name of Jesus Christ our Saviour. Please be careful how you talk about the word of truth.

Matthew 4:4, "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

In order to live for God, we need every word that He has given us.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#93
#93
John146 said:
How do people even know about the Lord Jesus Christ without the preservation of His words? Faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of God. The gospel of Christ MUST be involved in salvation and the only way we know about the gospel of Christ is through His word. You down play the Bible as if it's just another book among books. That's not what God thinks. As a matter of fact God said about his word: "for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name." Without the word of God, we know nothing about the name of Jesus Christ our Saviour. Please be careful how you talk about the word of truth.

Matthew 4:4, "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

In order to live for God, we need every word that He has given us.
Click to expand...
Angela said nothing of the sort. She loves the Word. She just doesn't love it when people worship the KJV (or any other translation).
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#94
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#94
posthuman said:
no rhinos in the mid-east though. we've been over this a few times; the animal is in all likelihood an aurochs -- an extinct kind of giant ox.
it's a bad translation of the word. there's no harm in admitting that. people so often forget that any Bible in English is a translation. improving that does not change the preserved word, which is not in our common language.
Click to expand...
But, they have so elevated type-set words printed on a page of tree bark to the level of actually worshiping them, that they are fearful not to express things precisely as those translators say they have to. It's not much different than the worship of a graven image of a tall, skinny man with long hair hanging on a cross on the wall of a church building... or a plaster statue of his mother in a blue robe.
 
Last edited:
T

Tintin

Guest
#95
#95
Willie, just curious. What translations do you read and study? :)
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#98
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#98
Angela53510 said:
Before I got saved, I was reading a modern Catholic version of the Bible. I knew nothing, just that I wanted a translation that I could read, and I got it in a regular bookstore. However, I could not understand what it was about. I kept putting circles around things I did not understand and question marks in the margins. That New American Bible was one of the best translations I have ever read. I do not read it because I did not like the RCC study comments. But when I took New Testament Survey, we had to read the Intertestimental books to gain a little knowledge about the history between Malachi and Matthew. After I was saved, I understood what the Bible was about, because I had met the author of the book!

God just told me he was the Saviour of the world and that I would serve him. And I did! About 30 or so years later, I realized that he was paraphrasing John 3:16. Imagine that, God paraphrasing, putting it into the simpliest language so I could live understand.

God saves us, not a book! But God does use many things to save us, and that can include a Bible. In Muslim countries, God uses visions and dreams to save people. My World Religions professor was on Sabbatical from being a missionary in Indonesia. He said he would develop relationships with the people, and then they would come to him with a dream they had about Jesus, and he would lead them to the Lord.

Oh, they never read the KJV, because they spoke Indonesian. And God saved them, anyway! Fancy that!
Click to expand...
That is a great testimony both of your own life and that of the Indonesian missionary. Speaks volumes. ( sorry says I need to spread rep around before I can give it to you again )

Thank you for this post!
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#99
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#99
Tintin said:
Half a dozen different translations? Nice. I've heard of the God's Word translation, but I'm not familiar with it. Thanks, brother.
Click to expand...
It's basically, the Bible in the kind of language I would use when speaking to someone. I have always believed that if you cannot read something like the KJV, and turn around and simply explain it to someone else in your own everyday vernacular, then you probably have not really learned what you read. I feel you are mostly just showing that you can memorize some written text.
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

Senior Member
#100
Jan 18, 2016
6,710
1,424
113
#100
In order to live for God, we need every word that He has given us.
Click to expand...
I disagree, completely. All we "need" to be saved is to hear the gospel.

The rest is great to have, to help us learn MORE about following Jesus, but it is not "necessary".

If that was so, then NOBODY up until the end of the 1st century would have had a chance to "live for God".....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.