The Fall of Babylon

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jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,005
166
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#41
It was the correct in context verse, part of which you said you quoted! From the Niv. It sounded quite wrong so I looked it up.
The statement I wrote about God’s time bomb is not 2Thess 2v7 as such, but is explained by it!
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Active member
Feb 8, 2019
172
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#42
In reference to the various chapters concerning The Fall of Babylon in Revelation, like in chapter 14 and chapter 18, have people ever thought the idea that The Fall of Babylon could be a reference to the Monetary System we have in place today?

With the amount of debt that has been accumulated is just so mind staggering, to the point the only way to clear it is to wipe it off as a bad debt.

Unfortunately today, another problem with debt is in many ways, the fault of the people, as many that don't have the money want to have the latest cool gadgets and other fancy electronics, they get themselves caught in these finance plans, that can actually have a high interest rate if they don't pay off in the time given.

I know that the USD is the world reserve currency, but what if the monetary system was to collapse and the USD becomes worthless? Being the world reserve would that not cause catastrophic consequences on the world market? Cannot buy if the money you hold is worth nothing.
Fall of Babylon will be the fall of the Roman Catholic Church, where Jesus will come and kill whoever resides as pope.
Babylon will also include other false christian denominations that are in communion with the Roman Catholic Church. One example of this are denominations that cite the nicene creed, "we believe in one catholic, and apostolic church".

The mark of the beast is and has been here for a long time. It is the sign of the cross (666) made using the right hand and forehead.
The mark represents the image that is worshipped: the crucifix.

The crucifixion of Jesus was Satan's greatest victory until it became Satan's greatest defeat when Christ was resurrected on the third day. The dead man on a cross is what Satan perceives as his greatest victory. Those who worship the crucifix are worshiping what Satan perceives as his greatest victory.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
5,550
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lawton ok
#43
Fall of Babylon will be the fall of the Roman Catholic Church, where Jesus will come and kill whoever resides as pope.
Babylon will also include other false christian denominations that are in communion with the Roman Catholic Church. One example of this are denominations that cite the nicene creed, "we believe in one catholic, and apostolic church".

The mark of the beast is and has been here for a long time. It is the sign of the cross (666) made using the right hand and forehead.
The mark represents the image that is worshipped: the crucifix.

The crucifixion of Jesus was Satan's greatest victory until it became Satan's greatest defeat when Christ was resurrected on the third day. The dead man on a cross is what Satan perceives as his greatest victory. Those who worship the crucifix are worshiping what Satan perceives as his greatest victory.
Thats all very interesting but the elimination of cash in our society seems to play an important role as it is becoming increasingly difficult to live in our modern society without a bank account, credit or ATM card? What about the nations that are indebted to the Vatican bank through a 3rd party like the World Bank?
 

Alertandawake

Senior Member
Aug 20, 2017
349
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#44
The mark of the beast is and has been here for a long time. It is the sign of the cross (666) made using the right hand and forehead.
The mark represents the image that is worshipped: the crucifix.
Looking at the mark of the beast from a financial point of view, and going by the description that is written in Revelation Chapter 13:16-17, this "mark" would have to be the only acceptable means of a type of money.

Throughout history, money or some other forms of payment has always been needed for business transactions. Now going by advances in technology, we seem to be headed towards a fully electronic monetary system, no cheques, no cash, fully electronic. The Digital Age, or to put another way, The Transhumanism Age.

We already are on the path for man to be merged with machines. It stands to reason the next step is to have people programmed like machines, programmed to obey, to never question. And in my opinion based on research this is where we are headed.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
6,972
3,067
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#45
It could be a lot more to it than that. Think genetic tampering. Think god-like upgrades via genetics. Think about scrambling the code in a manner similar to Genesis 6. Think irreversible alteration that defiles a man. Think of millions making a willful choice because of succumbing to the temptation to "be like God".
Yes!

It will have to be something that changes a human being to make them forever ineligible to be redeemed. DNA mixture with the beast would do that. Somehow those that take the mark will merge with Satan.

It will likely offer other great things like longevity (satan's lie-you will not surely die) along with the ability to debit your bank account.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
8,272
891
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#46
Looking at the mark of the beast from a financial point of view, and going by the description that is written in Revelation Chapter 13:16-17, this "mark" would have to be the only acceptable means of a type of money.

Throughout history, money or some other forms of payment has always been needed for business transactions. Now going by advances in technology, we seem to be headed towards a fully electronic monetary system, no cheques, no cash, fully electronic. The Digital Age, or to put another way, The Transhumanism Age.

We already are on the path for man to be merged with machines. It stands to reason the next step is to have people programmed like machines, programmed to obey, to never question. And in my opinion based on research this is where we are headed.
Hey Alertandawake,

I totally agree with the first part of what you wrote. However, the problem that I see with the latter is that, if people are "programmed like machines, programmed to obey" then their worshiping of the beast, his image and the receiving of his mark would not be a willful and conscious decision, which it must be in order for them to rightly be judged and held accountable for doing so. Regarding this, scripture states that it is God who will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie, in order that judgment will come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.

Therefore, while it is obvious that we are and have been heading towards a complete electronic crediting and debiting system which will eventually only be accessible by those who have the mark, I believe that their decision to worship the beast, his image and receive his mark will be a willful and conscious decision on the part of each individual.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
6,972
3,067
113
#47
Fall of Babylon will be the fall of the Roman Catholic Church, where Jesus will come and kill whoever resides as pope.
Babylon will also include other false christian denominations that are in communion with the Roman Catholic Church. One example of this are denominations that cite the nicene creed, "we believe in one catholic, and apostolic church".

The mark of the beast is and has been here for a long time. It is the sign of the cross (666) made using the right hand and forehead.
The mark represents the image that is worshipped: the crucifix.

The crucifixion of Jesus was Satan's greatest victory until it became Satan's greatest defeat when Christ was resurrected on the third day. The dead man on a cross is what Satan perceives as his greatest victory. Those who worship the crucifix are worshiping what Satan perceives as his greatest victory.

Don't think so. Satan did NOT want Jesus on that cross.

First he tried to tempt Jesus out of the cross by offering all the world and it's kingdoms, and empires to Him WITHOUT having to go to the cross.
When Jesus said he must go to His death on the cross, Satan stood next to Peter, telling him to tell Jesus He would NOT go the cross.
When Jesus rode that donkey into Jerusalem, and the people shouted Hosanna! and ALLOWED them to recognize Him as Messiah, Satan panicked! He feared Jesus was going to start His Rule right then, and would cast Satan into the LOF right then and there.

So he entered Judas, had Jesus arrested, beaten like no other man, (after all, Satan thought, He is still a man. Skin for Skin!)

Ok. the beating didn't get Him to stop His quest to redeem mankind. Let's get Him up on that cross!

Surely when He sees how those He came to save treats Him, and wants to kill Him, He will relent and ZAP Himself back to heaven, and the HELL with humanity! After all, I have seen for thousands of yrs how weak and selfish men are. And He's STILL a man!


Satan's last ditch attempt : Mark 15
29 And those who passed by blasphemed Him, wagging their heads and saying, “Aha! You who destroy the temple and build it in three days, 30 save Yourself, and come down from the cross!”

31 Likewise the chief priests also, mocking among themselves with the scribes, said, “He saved others; Himself He cannot save. 32 Let the Christ, the King of Israel, descend now from the cross, that we may see and [f]believe.”

Even the unrepentant thief/murderer told tell Him to come off that cross.

No. Satan did not glorify in Jesus' death. He knew that was the end for him. Now the battle is for the individual soul not to join him in that LOF.
 

Bingo

Well-known member
Feb 9, 2019
1,506
1,017
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#48
"And the unthinkable, shall likely be just that...unthinkable!

giphy.gif
 

Alertandawake

Senior Member
Aug 20, 2017
349
59
28
#49
Hey Alertandawake,

I totally agree with the first part of what you wrote. However, the problem that I see with the latter is that, if people are "programmed like machines, programmed to obey" then their worshiping of the beast, his image and the receiving of his mark would not be a willful and conscious decision, which it must be in order for them to rightly be judged and held accountable for doing so. Regarding this, scripture states that it is God who will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie, in order that judgment will come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.

Therefore, while it is obvious that we are and have been heading towards a complete electronic crediting and debiting system which will eventually only be accessible by those who have the mark, I believe that their decision to worship the beast, his image and receive his mark will be a willful and conscious decision on the part of each individual.
Ahwatukee, there is one matter I often wonder, and this is from a technological point of view, and that is what happens once a person chooses to accept the mark of the beast? I totally agree that taking this "mark", the individual will have to make a willful decision.

The question that remains, once a person of their own free will accepts the mark of the beast, will that be the last act such person committed of their own free will??

I know of the consequences of one who accepts the mark, but speaking from a secular point of view, will the said person go from a being a individual with free will to a being that is programmed to obey like a robot??

But this concept we have today, transhumnasim, one has to really question what the real motives are when it comes to have man and machine merged. This concept of merging man and machine sounds more like renovating man into a robot, but that is my opinion.

I too have thought about the idea of our bodies being tampered with on a genetic level too (tampering with creation), but I tend to at wonder that with all these food tampering we see today, chemtrails, smart dust, nanobots and so on, I tend to question if our bodies today are being made compatible for the beast system?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
1,580
724
113
#50
Ahwatukee, there is one matter I often wonder, and this is from a technological point of view, and that is what happens once a person chooses to accept the mark of the beast? I totally agree that taking this "mark", the individual will have to make a willful decision.

The question that remains, once a person of their own free will accepts the mark of the beast, will that be the last act such person committed of their own free will??

I know of the consequences of one who accepts the mark, but speaking from a secular point of view, will the said person go from a being a individual with free will to a being that is programmed to obey like a robot??

But this concept we have today, transhumnasim, one has to really question what the real motives are when it comes to have man and machine merged. This concept of merging man and machine sounds more like renovating man into a robot, but that is my opinion.

I too have thought about the idea of our bodies being tampered with on a genetic level too (tampering with creation), but I tend to at wonder that with all these food tampering we see today, chemtrails, smart dust, nanobots and so on, I tend to question if our bodies today are being made compatible for the beast system?
"The question that remains, once a person of their own free will accepts the mark of the beast, will that be the last act such person committed of their own free will??"

IMO this is true, and supported by Scripture. Quite irreversible. Basically an act of fully informed rebellion.

Rev 14

And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
 
Feb 8, 2019
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#52
Don't think so. Satan did NOT want Jesus on that cross.
The Book of Daniel documents how the King of Babylon decreed worshipping the golden image, and those who did not risked being executed in a fiery furnace. Then Jews were maliciously accused for not worshipping the golden image. The king of Babylon gave some of these Jews another chance to conform and worship the image or be executed. You might call those who refused to follow the King's decree heretics or non-conformers. This golden image was the image of the beast, I believe the 2nd beast of the Book of Daniel.

Then there is the 2nd beast in revelation that follows a similar theme where those who would not worship the image (those who do not conform) that they too might be killed.

Then you had the inquisitions.
Heresies were a problem for the Church from the beginning. In the early centuries there were the Arians and Manicheans; in the Middle Ages there were the Cathari and Waldenses; and in the Renaissance there were the Hussites, Lutherans, Calvinists, and Rosicrucians. Efforts to suppress heresies were initially ad hoc. But in the Middle Ages a permanent structure came into being to deal with the problem. Beginning in the 12th century, Church Councils required secular rulers to prosecute heretics. In 1231, Pope Gregory IX published a decree which called for life imprisonment with salutary penance for the heretic who had confessed and repented and capital punishment for those who persisted. The secular authorities were to carry out the execution. Pope Gregory relieved the bishops and archbishops of this obligation, and made it the duty of the Dominican Order

the penitents (those that admitted wrongdoing and agreed to conform and worship the image of the crucifix) abjured on their knees with one hand on a bible held by the inquisitor. Penalties went from visits to churches, pilgrimages, and wearing the cross of infamy (wearing the mark of the beast) to imprisonment (usually for life but the sentences were often commuted) and (if the accused would not abjure) death. Death was by burning at the stake, and it was carried out by the secular authorities. In some serious cases when the accused had died before proceedings could be instituted, his or her remains could be exhumed and burned. Death or life imprisonment was always accompanied by the confiscation of all the accused's property.

So here you have it that the inquisition fulfilled the prophesy in Rev 13 where those who did not worship the image were killed.

The inquisitions has ended and the 2nd beast is now the Prostitute of Babylon, which is the modern day Roman Catholic Church (and denominations that are coming back in communion with the RCC): these are institutions that worship the image of the beast. The image of the 2nd beast of Rev. the dead mortal man on a cross.

All fits very nicely.
 
Feb 8, 2019
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#53
Also note that both were executed by a fiery death. It is sooooo obvious, WOW!!!!
 
Feb 8, 2019
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#54
OK so Ancient Babylon is the 1st beast of Daniel, where both government and religion were intertwined into one entity.
Then starting with Rome (1st beast of Rev) and the Roman Catholic Church (2nd beast of Rev) you had this perceived separation of government and religion.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
9,941
4,687
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#55
I find it mildly amusing that @Nebuchadnezzar is commenting on a thread titled, "The Fall of Babylon". ;)
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,540
890
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#56
Babylon meaning ….. "the gate of the gods,"

The fall... the time of reformation as a shadow of the last day when the new heaves and earth appears. The pervious time period used as a parable of the pagan nations that walk after what the eyes see. Kings in Israel and abomination of desecration. It because mankind would not walk by faith (the unseen eternal) They developed gods in the likeness of men called a law of the fathers/kings as men seen .


The mark of no faith. The mark of Cain...
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
8,272
891
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#57
The Book of Daniel documents how the King of Babylon decreed worshipping the golden image, and those who did not risked being executed in a fiery furnace. Then Jews were maliciously accused for not worshipping the golden image. The king of Babylon gave some of these Jews another chance to conform and worship the image or be executed. You might call those who refused to follow the King's decree heretics or non-conformers. This golden image was the image of the beast, I believe the 2nd beast of the Book of Daniel.

Then there is the 2nd beast in revelation that follows a similar theme where those who would not worship the image (those who do not conform) that they too might be killed.
Good day Nebuchadnezzar,

Nebuchadnezzar's golden image has nothing to do with the image of the first beast of Revelation. This is obvious because of the fact that the event with the golden image took place approximately 700 years prior to the writing of the book of Revelation, where John wrote about the beast, his image and his mark, as being future. Regarding the book of Revelation, it states right in the first verse that Jesus sent His angel to show His servants "the events which must take place in quickness," which would include everything written in Revelation, including the information regarding the image of the beast as being future. In fact, the word "apokalupsis" translated as "Revelation" is defined as information being revealed that was previously hidden.

Another supporting factor that the Nebuchadnezzar's golden image is not the image of beast that John was referring to is that, both the first beast/antichrist and the 2nd beast/false prophet are captured at the same time and thrown alive into the lake of fire when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, which hasn't happened yet (Rev.19:20). Therefore, the golden image could not possibly be the image of the beast which John wrote about as a future event.

In addition, in interpreting Nebuchadnezzar's dream, he lists all of the major kingdoms, Babylon, Medo/Persia, Greece and Rome, with the ten-toed kingdom being an extended or revived Roman empire as being the last kingdom, which we have not yet seen and which will be ruled by that fist beast, with the false prophet at his side and when the image will be made and his mark will become manditory.

The 2nd beast is the false prophet (Rev.16:13, 19:20) who will be performing those miracles, signs and wonders on behalf of the first beast, that is, to give him credibility in his claim of being God. This demonstrates that both the first and second beast will be working together concurrently, i.e. in the same time period. In future support of them both being future, it is the 2nd beast/false prophet who causes the inhabitants of the earth to receive the mark of the beast, the technology of which came into use in 2015. If the first beast was the golden image as you claim, then the false prophet would have had to be there as well and the mark of the beast would also have had to be existing. However, the fact John is writing about both of them in the future tense is sufficient to show that that the golden image could not have been the beast that John was writing about.
 
Feb 8, 2019
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#58
Don't think so. Satan did NOT want Jesus on that cross.
If not then what is John 14:29-30 implying?

John 14:29-30
And now I have told you before it takes place, so that when it does take place you may believe.
I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no claim on me,
 
Feb 8, 2019
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#59
Good day Nebuchadnezzar,

Nebuchadnezzar's golden image has nothing to do with the image of the first beast of Revelation. This is obvious because of the fact that the event with the golden image took place approximately 700 years prior to the writing of the book of Revelation, where John wrote about the beast, his image and his mark, as being future. Regarding the book of Revelation, it states right in the first verse that Jesus sent His angel to show His servants "the events which must take place in quickness," which would include everything written in Revelation, including the information regarding the image of the beast as being future. In fact, the word "apokalupsis" translated as "Revelation" is defined as information being revealed that was previously hidden.

Another supporting factor that the Nebuchadnezzar's golden image is not the image of beast that John was referring to is that, both the first beast/antichrist and the 2nd beast/false prophet are captured at the same time and thrown alive into the lake of fire when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, which hasn't happened yet (Rev.19:20). Therefore, the golden image could not possibly be the image of the beast which John wrote about as a future event.

In addition, in interpreting Nebuchadnezzar's dream, he lists all of the major kingdoms, Babylon, Medo/Persia, Greece and Rome, with the ten-toed kingdom being an extended or revived Roman empire as being the last kingdom, which we have not yet seen and which will be ruled by that fist beast, with the false prophet at his side and when the image will be made and his mark will become manditory.

The 2nd beast is the false prophet (Rev.16:13, 19:20) who will be performing those miracles, signs and wonders on behalf of the first beast, that is, to give him credibility in his claim of being God. This demonstrates that both the first and second beast will be working together concurrently, i.e. in the same time period. In future support of them both being future, it is the 2nd beast/false prophet who causes the inhabitants of the earth to receive the mark of the beast, the technology of which came into use in 2015. If the first beast was the golden image as you claim, then the false prophet would have had to be there as well and the mark of the beast would also have had to be existing. However, the fact John is writing about both of them in the future tense is sufficient to show that that the golden image could not have been the beast that John was writing about.
No, I said the golden image was the image of the 1st beast in Daniel, and the crucifix is the image of the 2nd beast in Revelation.
Two different images from two different beasts, but the theme is same - worship the image or be killed by fire.

The 2nd beast, which is the roman catholic church, has authenticated many micracles, signs and wonders.
The 2nd beast which is the roman catholic church, and the 1st beast, which is the roman empire (and byzantine empire) worked togehter concurrently.
The Roman Catholic Church caused many to receive the sign of the cross, which is the mark of the crucifix, or be branded a heretic and be killed.
Roman empire working with Roman Catholic Church and the creation of crucifix occurred to the future of when John wrote Revelation