The Falling Away - pre-trib rapture or ???

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Jul 23, 2018
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GREAT - It does not change the Order set forth in the Gospels and Apostles writings and Revelation concerning the Second Coming of Christ.

Jesus explained, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to finish His work.
Do you not say, ‘There are still four months until the harvest’?

I tell you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are ripe for harvest.

Already the reaper draws his wages and gathers a crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may rejoice together.
For in this case the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true.
I sent you to reap what you have not worked for; others have done the hard work, and now you have taken up their labor.”

The LORD established one harvest for all who are His unto His Coming.

Now, is the time of Harvest - it began with Christ preaching the Kingdom and will continue unto His Return.

So when they came together, they asked Him, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority.
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Do not be deceived - there is only one Coming of Christ for the Resurrection of the Righteous and the gathering of those who remain.

1 Thess 1:10 "and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."

1 Thess 4:13-18
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words.
Rev 14 alone, destroys that.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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To be clear to the readers (regarding my previous post): there is only ONE "RAPTURE"... but more than one "harvest"... they are NOT EQUATED!


... in case the readers assumed so, from my post. ;)



[the "WHEAT" harvest is harvested by means of a "tribulum" (harvesting implement), for example... NOT SO regarding the EARLIER harvest ;) which is harvested, instead, by means of "TOSSING UP INTO THE AIR, and BLOWING away the chaff"; We/"the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" are not the "WHEAT"]
where do you find that?
Where the barley is not trodden broken up prior to the winnowing?

I thought both were trodden first.

I really am not sure
 
Aug 2, 2021
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Rev 14 alone, destroys that.
Nope - the Lord Jesus does not destroy His own Word -

You do not (yet) understand = "they married and given in marriage before Noah entered the Ark"

You do not (yet) understand = Matthew 25:1-13

You do not (yet) understand Revelation 14

They are all connected
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Please show the verse that has Jesus taking His bride to heaven.
Mat 24 1-?
First 15 or so verses.

Vivid, vivid depiction.

Also in rev 19

And the last supper dialogue .

You wont bite on it or look honestly at it so it is pointless to discuss it
 
Jul 23, 2018
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The Bible is so clear about resurrections; 1 for saved and 1 for the unsaved. And since 1 for the saved occurs before the 1 for the unsaved, it is properly called the FIRST resurrection.
The dead in christ.
1 thes 4

Hopefully, we are all now on the same page that there is no resurrection a day after Jesus returns. ....as some tried to depict in rev 20.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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What?? The Bible says no such thing.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

I will let you count how many resurrections of the saved are found in this verse.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

And same here. Count how many resurrections you count for just the believers.

Are you getting the picture yet?

2 Thess 2:1,3
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

v.1 refers to the Second Advent and the resurrection/rapture event, obviously occurring together.
They were seen walking around in Jerusalem.

They had the gospel preached to them

It also says he took captivity captive

Sorry if your workbook and colleagues misled you.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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The dead in christ.
1 thes 4

Hopefully, we are all now on the same page that there is no resurrection a day after Jesus returns. ....as some tried to depict in rev 20.
This is too funny - thank you - and the Resurrection is not a day(s) before His Return either - lol
 
Jul 23, 2018
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i fear God - Revelation 22:18-19

Revelation 14 does not say they are Jews according to the flesh.
rolleyes

What are they?
Spirit Jews?

Grand canyon leap of error.

It says exactly what it says.

I honestly think the reason the Holy Spirit went into detail about who the 144k are is so that anyone wanting to change it would be in obvious error.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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This is too funny - thank you - and the Resurrection is not a day(s) before His Return either - lol
Did you ever agree those in rev 20 are not resurrected a day after the second coming?
 
Jan 31, 2021
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where do you find that?
Where the barley is not trodden broken up prior to the winnowing?

I thought both were trodden first.

I really am not sure
These are just irrelevant details. Focus on the number of resurrections and WHEN they occur. Tells you everything.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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that is a false assumption - as usual
Show me .
How may days , hours or minutes are those supposed resurrected in rev 20. ....after satan defeated?
Since they are being framed here erroneously as the 1st resurrection, it is necessary that they defend it or cease error.

All you have done is dodge that challenge.


Then show me 1 thes 4, which is the first resurrection.

Show me both in setting.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
Please show the verse that has Jesus taking His bride to heaven.
Mat 24 1-?
First 15 or so verses.
You mean it takes 15 "or so" verses to show Jesus taking His bride to heaven??? When it could be done in 1 sentence?

your answer is just a vague smokescreen.

Vivid, vivid depiction.
yeah, dreams are that way, sometimes.

Also in rev 19

And the last supper dialogue .
Just pay attention to the wording. It's all preparatory for the wedding. Since Rev 19 also shows the army accompanying Jesus to earth, the text about the wedding could not just be happening. Doesn't pretrib theory have the wedding immediately after the raptured saints are taken to heaven?

You wont bite on it or look honestly at it so it is pointless to discuss it
Said the guy who won't look honestly at Acts 24:15, 1 Cor 15:23, 2 Thess 2:1,3 and Rev 20:5.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I say the next day.

But could be minutes AFTER THE APPEARING.
THEREFORE NOT MEETING HIM IN THE AIR.

BOGUS....BIG TIME
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Did you ever agree those in rev 20 are not resurrected a day after the second coming?
OH
Wait.... I never knew satan was chained before the dead resurrected in 1 thes 4.

So that meeting in the air deal is the second second coming?

Or maybe you have no meeting at all in the air when the dead in christ rise?
 
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
The Bible is so clear about resurrections; 1 for saved and 1 for the unsaved. And since 1 for the saved occurs before the 1 for the unsaved, it is properly called the FIRST resurrection.
The dead in christ.
1 thes 4
The 'dead in Christ' are the SAME as "those who belong to Him" in 1 Cor 15:23.
" But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him."

What do you think Paul was referring to here? What the verse say is after Christ's "firstfruits" resurrection, THEN, WHEN He comes, EVERYONE else. All the saved, iow.

Hopefully, we are all now on the same page that there is no resurrection a day after Jesus returns. ....as some tried to depict in rev 20.
i'm still waiting for your explanation of where you get this "day after" nonsense. I've never said anything about the next day.

In Rev 20:5 we DO see a resurrection of tribulation martyrs. They "live and reign with Christ". This obviously shows that at Christ's return they are resurrected, called the FIRST resurrection, which aligns with Acts 24:15 and 1 Cor 15:23.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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This is too funny - thank you - and the Resurrection is not a day(s) before His Return either - lol
You fail to see...incredibly...that the dead meet Jesus in the air...PRIOR to satan chained
But hey....if you NEED IT TO BE AFTER....GO FOR IT.

CHANGE REVELATION or 1THES 4
 
Jan 31, 2021
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They were seen walking around in Jerusalem.
Are you referring to people in Jesus' day after the crucifixion? Well then, please show the clear evidence that they received resurrection bodies and were taken to heaven. Because if they weren't taken to heaven, they would STILL BE HERE ON EARTH, since resurrection bodies cannot die.

They had the gospel preached to them

It also says he took captivity captive
What does any of this have to do with the single resurrection that the Bible notes?

Sorry if your workbook and colleagues misled you.
My "notebook" is the Bible. You should read it.