The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

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Jul 23, 2018
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This happens first:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and [[they shall gather]] together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Then this happens:

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He [a]had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in [b]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a [c]sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.



PAUL SAID, WE ARE CHANGED IN [A] TWINKLING OF AN EYE!

We are gathered and changed and go directly into Armageddon!
Nowhere does it say or imply lot was gathered and went back to sodom immediately.

Nor anywhere implying those raptured never see heaven.
You completely made it up via OMISSION OF BIBLE VERSES
 
Jul 23, 2018
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This happens first:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and [[they shall gather]] together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Then this happens:

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He [a]had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in [b]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a [c]sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.



PAUL SAID, WE ARE CHANGED IN [A] TWINKLING OF AN EYE!

We are gathered and changed and go directly into Armageddon!
You just proved that angels gather from heaven.
Then the white horses.
Great pretribber dynamics
Thanks!
 
Dec 29, 2021
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It says heaven.
Sorry.
I know you need it to be different
You clearly lack common Sense.

So, stand on the ground outside and look up. Where are the Clouds at? In Earth's Atmosphere. Jesus said He will be in the clouds. Can you see past the clouds into space and see other planets? NO! So, it means Earth!

You really are DENSE!
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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I asked you my question first.
You answer me.
Does Christ only Gather the Alive at His Second Coming?
Consider this:
The LIVING Abraham Isaac and Jacob of Luke 20:37 ARE NOT RAPTURED, either (according to your erroneous thinking) in Matthew 24, or when this pretrib rapture actually happens in 1Thes 4 etc.

Furthermore the "them also which sleep" of 1Thes 4:14 or the "we which are alive and remain" of v. 15 have nothing whatsoever to do with a rapture or resurrection of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

The people who actually know what they are talking about know why and where the Scriptural support for this is....

Do you?
 
Jul 23, 2018
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You clearly lack common Sense.

So, stand on the ground outside and look up. Where are the Clouds at? In Earth's Atmosphere. Jesus said He will be in the clouds. Can you see past the clouds into space and see other planets? NO! So, it means Earth!

You really are DENSE!
ahhh
You claim your common sense is the high ground cancelling verses

Ok...got it.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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ahhh
You claim your common sense is the high ground cancelling verses

Ok...got it.
No, Jesus in Matthew 24 says
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

HUMANS ARE ON GROUND EARTH AND CAN SEE JESUS IN CLOUDS. SO, GO OUTSIDE AND LOOK AS FAR AS YOU CAN. CAN YOU SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD IN HEAVEN? NO, YOU SEE THE HEAVEN [CLOUDS] OF EARTH.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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1. Christ leaves heaven.
2. The dead in Christ resurrect.
3. The dead in Christ come with Christ, following him.
[...]
The dead will not be raptured and the living will not be resurrected. The dead go DOWN from heaven and the living go UP from the Earth.
Hate to say this yet again, but where the text states, "the dead in Christ SHALL RISE FIRST" (...THEN... [such and such]), what "SHALL RISE FIRST" means is, they will be "resurrected" which is DEFINED AS: "to stand AGAIN [on the earth]"... This involves the very BODIES of them which had DIED (just like it had, regarding JESUS' own resurrection).


--"THIS corruptible must PUT ON incorruption" (speaking specifically of "the DEAD IN Christ" who "sleep through Jesus")
[whereas "and THIS mortal must PUT ON immortality" speaks specifically of the "we which are ALIVE and remain"--same time-slot though, to be clear (same "mortal [/still-living]" being spoken of in 2Cor5:4b "...but CLOTHED UPON, THAT mortality might be SWALLOWED UP of LIFE")]; "must PUT ON" and "CLOTHED UPON" speaks of that which ALSO involves the BODIES we have now... they themselves will be "CHANGED" (glorified / perfected / etc);



--"we shall ALL be CHANGED in a moment..." means that both the [now] resurrected dead in Christ AND the we which are alive and remain, i.e. the ENTIRE "Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (Eph1:20-23)--[note: "alive and remain" to the point in time being referenced]--will BOTH [both components] receive our glorified bodies AT THAT POINT (just prior to the moment of "our Rapture / SNATCH");


--the phrase, "shall be CAUGHT-UP / SNATCHED TOGETHER IN-UNION-WITH [G4862] them" means that the SNATCH-action occurs for both components AT THE SAME TIME. The text states "TO THE MEETING OF THE LORD"... it does not state, "to meet THEM [the DEAD in Christ, resurrected UP THERE] in the clouds [where their new bodies will already BE, ahead of us 'still-living' ones arriving there... NO!]"
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Consider this:
The LIVING Abraham Isaac and Jacob of Luke 20:37 ARE NOT RAPTURED, either (according to your erroneous thinking) in Matthew 24, or when this pretrib rapture actually happens in 1Thes 4 etc.

Furthermore the "them also which sleep" of 1Thes 4:14 or the "we which are alive and remain" of v. 15 have nothing whatsoever to do with a rapture or resurrection of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

The people who actually know what they are talking about know why and where the Scriptural support for this is....

Do you?
Yes
It is only the dead in Christ that resurrect at the rapture
 
Dec 29, 2021
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Consider this:
The LIVING Abraham Isaac and Jacob of Luke 20:37 ARE NOT RAPTURED, either (according to your erroneous thinking) in Matthew 24, or when this pretrib rapture actually happens in 1Thes 4 etc.

Furthermore the "them also which sleep" of 1Thes 4:14 or the "we which are alive and remain" of v. 15 have nothing whatsoever to do with a rapture or resurrection of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

The people who actually know what they are talking about know why and where the Scriptural support for this is....

Do you?
WOW!

They were resurrected at Christ's Resurrection.

Moses is a Witness and appeared at Transfiguration!

How can Moses be still dead but at Transfiguration?


He is RESURRECTED like Luke claims!
 
Dec 29, 2021
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Moses is a Witness and appeared at Transfiguration!

How can Moses be still dead but at Transfiguration?
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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WOW! They were resurrected at Christ's Resurrection.
Moses is a Witness and appeared at Transfiguration!
How can Moses be still dead but at Transfiguration?

He is RESURRECTED like Luke claims!
You are getting the "chronology" out of whack again. (Slow down.)

1) "The Transfiguration" thing took place PRIOR TO Christ's DEATH on the Cross

2) Matthew 17:9 says this of that scene: "And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead."
 
Dec 29, 2021
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You are getting the "chronology" out of whack again. (Slow down.)

1) "The Transfiguration" thing took place PRIOR TO Christ's DEATH on the Cross

2) Matthew 17:9 says this of that: "And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead."

I know it took place before, so how is Moses already Resurrected and at Transfiguration?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,688
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Where in Jude, does Enoch say HORSE's?
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
^
This Armageddon so where are the HORSES?

STOP MAKING IT UP!!
Surely you jest......:oops:

Revelation 19:11.....Jesus on a white horse.

Revelation 19:14.....armies (plural) on white horses.


Furthermore, the "gathering" of Matthew 24 occur after this happens (because Jesus is first going to exhibit his Glory to them in victory).......not before.

And the Church per se is not to be found anywhere between Revelation chapter 6 through 18. The Church has been raptured by Revelation 4:1.....at least seven years beforehand.

The Church/Bride is enjoying a seven day aka seven year honeymoon at the Father's house while God's 70th week wrath rages upon the earth. Neither the Church nor Jesus is seen in Revelation chapter 6 through 18.

You obviously don't understand the Jewish wedding ritual as it pertains to the Bridegroom Jesus His Bride the Church and end-time eschatology.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Nothing is changed, that is still Matthew 24
Thevwhite horses are after the trib.
Mat 24 " AFTER THE TRIB. OF THOSE DAYS"

REV 14 is DURING the trib.

You have operated outside our verses for so long, you just blow them off and pretend all is good.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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Elijah was there and we know Elijah never died and went to Heaven. So, how is Moses there, who did die?
 
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