The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.
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Since I`ve been away this thread has developed many pages. Glad people are having a good discussion.
Now I would like to answer that question for You FG, but not on this thread as it will take it off into another direction. Thus I will go and prepare another thread on `The Purpose of the Rapture.` It seems people talk about when and where it happens but not really understand God`s purpose. Thus it would be a good discussion I believe.
Now I would like to answer that question for You FG, but not on this thread as it will take it off into another direction. Thus I will go and prepare another thread on `The Purpose of the Rapture.` It seems people talk about when and where it happens but not really understand God`s purpose. Thus it would be a good discussion I believe.
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Sorry buddy but you are dead wrong. The Departure means exactly what it says. Nothing more nothing less. And don't forget it's a noun not a verb....
I'm not wrong and the rapture is a verb so the departure from the Christian religion would be a noun because it's not about physical movement. You just proved apostasia cannot be the rapture but who cares about facts? Pretrib will fall upon it's own sword in the face of truth.
This is just noise. I googled Apostasian and there is nothing related to apostasia. The only thing I found was related to music called, "Apostasian Tabs". Blueletterbible has ἀποστασία and so does biblehub. Paul never wrote apostasis in any of his letters and certainly not regarding the falling away that pretrib wants to take part in. Such foolishness in that doctrine and no scholarship at all. Your fellow pretribber even thinks all the expert Greek sources are corrupted. What utter foolishness.
Almost everything in this post is wrong. Apostasis is NOT the same word or same meaning as the newer word apostasia. TDW does not like that apostasia means apostasy so she is trying everything she can think of to erase what the word means and try to give it a new meaning it does not and can not mean.
We can test it without being Greek experts (I don’t think anyone here is) by plugging it into the context. The gathering to Christ occurs when Christ returns. When Christ returns He destroys the “Wicked” one with the brightness of His coming.
It’s believed that “Wicked” one, given the context that he’s in the temple of God claiming to be God, is the anti-Christ.
That means Christ returns to gather His people and end the great tribulation. That’s how most people understand 2 Thessalonians 2 because it’s plain in the text.
So even if we allow apostasia to mean a departure of the church in a rapture, it introduces a contradiction in the chapter by allowing the church to be gathered to Christ before He returns to destroy the Wicked one. We can rule out departure being a pre-trib rapture this way. The rapture is post-trib.
It’s believed that “Wicked” one, given the context that he’s in the temple of God claiming to be God, is the anti-Christ.
That means Christ returns to gather His people and end the great tribulation. That’s how most people understand 2 Thessalonians 2 because it’s plain in the text.
So even if we allow apostasia to mean a departure of the church in a rapture, it introduces a contradiction in the chapter by allowing the church to be gathered to Christ before He returns to destroy the Wicked one. We can rule out departure being a pre-trib rapture this way. The rapture is post-trib.
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How was such a thing (supposedly) "proved"??
"he apostasia" is a NOUN (as was just mentioned).
So is "[OUR] episynagoges [NOUN] [UNTO HIM]" v.1 (the very thing / NOUN v.3b "THE Departure [NOUN] ['FIRST']" [not v.3a!] POINTS BACK TO).
Your thing about insisting the word would have to be a VERB (like "SNATCH / CAUGHT UP / RAPTURE / harpazo" is a VERB) just shows you (incorrectly) think Paul only referenced this whole "idea" ONLY ONCE in these two epistles, in 1Th4:17 ALONE (which is FAR from accurate, as I mentioned in a recent previous post).
[ewq doesn't like the fact that "apostasian" (Acts 21:21) and "apostasia" (2Th2:3) are spelled differently, thus obliterating her "totally made up rule" (unless she breaks her own rule, for her own ends [to support HER point], that is )]
"he apostasia" is a NOUN (as was just mentioned).
So is "[OUR] episynagoges [NOUN] [UNTO HIM]" v.1 (the very thing / NOUN v.3b "THE Departure [NOUN] ['FIRST']" [not v.3a!] POINTS BACK TO).
Your thing about insisting the word would have to be a VERB (like "SNATCH / CAUGHT UP / RAPTURE / harpazo" is a VERB) just shows you (incorrectly) think Paul only referenced this whole "idea" ONLY ONCE in these two epistles, in 1Th4:17 ALONE (which is FAR from accurate, as I mentioned in a recent previous post).
[ewq doesn't like the fact that "apostasian" (Acts 21:21) and "apostasia" (2Th2:3) are spelled differently, thus obliterating her "totally made up rule"
(unless she breaks her own rule, for her own ends [to support HER point], that is )]-
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I already explained. Rapture is a verb so this falling away from the faith is not a verb meaning no one is going up into the clouds because it's a noun not a verb.
I'm a male, not female. What are you if "she" is not the correct pronoun?
And you are wrong that I somehow don't like a spelling. "apostasia" is the spelling in 2Th2:3. Paul did not write "apostasian" and he certainly did not write apostasis.
In Acts 21, bible hub has apostasian, and blueletterbible has both spellings but it doesn't matter, it's still the same word and not apostasis.
[ewq doesn't like the fact that "apostasian" (Acts 21:21) and "apostasia" (2Th2:3) are spelled differently, thus obliterating her "totally made up rule" ]
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And you are wrong that I somehow don't like a spelling. "apostasia" is the spelling in 2Th2:3. Paul did not write "apostasian" and he certainly did not write apostasis.
In Acts 21, bible hub has apostasian, and blueletterbible has both spellings but it doesn't matter, it's still the same word and not apostasis.
Your reasoning makes it sound like, since "[OUR] episynagoges [UNTO HIM]" is a NOUN (the word in BLUE), that it absolutely CANNOT involve a MOVEMENT / RELOCATION / EXIT from the earth (like "SNATCH / CAUGHT UP / RAPTURE / harpazo - VERB [TO the MEETING [NOUN] of the Lord IN THE AIR]" does) simply BECAUSE it is a NOUN.
How does this make reasonable sense? I'm not seeing it.
How does this make reasonable sense? I'm not seeing it.
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There is not the slightest hint nor nuance nor warning nor threat of Christians falling prey to "apostasy" ANYWHERE in first or second Thessalonians. Nothing zero zip nada.
Furthermore the ONLY threat (which was debunked) was that of Christians suffering the predicament to be still be lingering upon the earth AFTER the DOTL had ALREADY BEGUN.
You need to get a grip and understand that there is no "apostasy" or "falling away from the faith" in first and second Thessalonians. At all. It is neither a topic of discussion nor is it a threat. It simply isn't there......
Furthermore the ONLY threat (which was debunked) was that of Christians suffering the predicament to be still be lingering upon the earth AFTER the DOTL had ALREADY BEGUN.
You need to get a grip and understand that there is no "apostasy" or "falling away from the faith" in first and second Thessalonians. At all. It is neither a topic of discussion nor is it a threat. It simply isn't there......
Yes, there is. It's the main one and the only one to use the Greek word for Apostasy. Thinking the way you do is dangerous, and it's just plain dumb to think all these Greek experts and Greek sources are corrupted and wrong. Go ahead and commit Apostasia if you want to. You will regret the decision.
Paul makes it exceedingly excessively clear in 1Thess 5 and 2Thes 2 that the "darkness", "sudden destruction", "unrighteous deception" falls ONLY upon those who "did not receive the love of the truth"......the same "THEY" "THEM" of 1Thes 5.
These are NOT Christians......they are the unsaved by very definition.
There are absolutely no Christians in first or second Thessalonians being deceived to perdition......Paul makes it perfectly clear that it is they who are NOT deceived.
Furthermore there are absolutely no Christians "falling away" or becoming "apostate" in first or second Thessalonians. That is a figment of your florid imagination.
These are NOT Christians......they are the unsaved by very definition.
There are absolutely no Christians in first or second Thessalonians being deceived to perdition......Paul makes it perfectly clear that it is they who are NOT deceived.
Furthermore there are absolutely no Christians "falling away" or becoming "apostate" in first or second Thessalonians. That is a figment of your florid imagination.
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The unsaved cannot commit Apostasy. It is speaking of Christians who don't understand the antichrist will come first and deceive as many Christians as he can and it will be a large amount. This is why bad doctrines are so very dangerous. If "Jesus" comes and says he wants to rapture you, tell him no and walk away. The fake "Jesus" will come first, long before the real one does.
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