The "God told me to tell you" Phenomenon

[ocean]

Mat 7:15 "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

Mat 7:22-23 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.

I would keep my distance from anyone who says they speak for God. Stick with the Word of God. It is our teacher and counsel and is the only source of absolute truth on the planet. God speaks to us today through His Word.

The word should always be our guide.
Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path. Psalm 119:105

 

[homwardbound]

I use to know someone who thought he had the gift of Pastor-Teacher. But my impression was that he just liked to bully people and tell them what to do. It seemed to me that in arrogance he was caving in to lust for power over others. I suspect that cult leaders have this problem in spades.

As is true with all first born natures, needing to be born new in Father and Son, Son arisen, us getting, being reconciled (Forgiven) by God Father through Son's done work, done once for all in to be in appreciation, not using this for any self gain. Which is the conflict here in this world, that Jesus never claimed to be in charge of at all
My Kingdom is not of this world
Be in this world, not of this world, thanks as I continue to grow daily in trust, even if I do not yet get it, I will humbly so, seeing God's done work of Son work through me and others also
God I see is good all the time as good is God all the time

 

[ocean]

I've seen this handled both well and poorly. In the former cases, the "prophet" (role, not title) delivers the word humbly and without a lot of packaging. The recipient feels edified, even if the message is challenging. In the latter cases, the "prophet" demands a certain response, often on the basis of their own interpretation of the message rather than the recipient's.

A person giving a word from the Lord is not responsible for the recipient's response at all. The conveyor's job is to convey, not to interpret, and not to control.

I totally agree that control is never of God. We do have some instances of a prophet in the NT delivering a message to someone such as Agabus who told Paul what would happen to him if he went to Jerusalem. We are not told anything else about it but we know what happened. Paul received the message but decided to go on anyway. I wonder if God was giving him a choice?

 

[ocean]

If God told someone to "come out of her my people" when referring to a church.What he is really saying is come out of the world.
I keep talking about on earth as it is in heaven moments.You know what lukewarm really is?
Your local church is liken to a mother.The same as the true church is liken to a mother.What does a mother do?She breast feeds you lukewarm milk.
That's what a lukewarm church is.They will have a form of godliness but deny the power.What is the power?The power of the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 3:5
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Luke 24:49
And behold, I am sending the promise of My Father upon you. But remain in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.

A Lukewarm church is a mother feeding her baby milk.A baby dependent on that milk will keep going there, and because that church isn't Holy Spirit driven, they will never grow from being a baby.Even if there was a plate full of the meat of the gospel right in front of them,they will never comprehend it.How can a baby eat solid food if they're not growing?
In turn those people themselves can have a form of godliness but deny it's power.
I'm not saying that there's not any sincere Christians in the local churches.But if a person who soured on churches ended up going back to church after finding one they can 'tolerate'? They're still lost! That just blows my mind.

There's a lot of Christians who have the Holy Spirit but they will deny it's power.they refuse to leave their former selves.They refuse to listen to that still small voice.And then they will deceive themselves into thinking they're living that Holy Spirit life.

Revelation 3:15-16
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Yes I think many of us are aware of what is happening in so many churches. But this is kind of beyond the scope of this thread and I know threads get knocked off course but maybe we could try and just stick to the topic? No offense because churches are going downhill pretty fast and I actually prefer home churches myself, but that's another story.

 

[ocean]

If all one has is the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit (sanctified believers) to teach them, one has all they need. That being said, congregational fellowship, and the spiritual guiding of a Sanctified Pastor/Teacher can be a great help in one maturing in Gods Word. Such Pastors/Teachers are inspired by the Holy Spirit in their assisting a believer in their spiritual growth. But NEVER mistake the complete value of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Himself said the Holy Spirit would teach us ALL THINGS.

Problems arise when some person claims the inspiration of the Holy Spirit without actually having His indwelling presence. Many, many such peoples roam around like wolves to see how many of Gods children they can devour IMO.

All this being said; there is nothing one can learn from man that one can not learn from Scripture concerning their salvation, sanctification, justification through the precious gift of grace freely given by God.

Well I would disagree. The Bible is plain that it is the word of God and the Holy Spirit is our Teacher (just one of the things He does for us). The Bereans were commended for searching out the scriptures to prove what was being taught to them was the truth. It is not just people who do not have the Holy Spirit who are false. People who are filled with the Holy Spirit can also be led astray and this is a fact and that is one reason why we are warned so many times to be aware of deception and we should indeed 'test' the spirits.

Since we are told to 'test' the spirits, it should be concerning enough to weigh carefully what those who say they are led by the Holy Spirit and not just accept everything. There would not be such grievous error in so many churches today if people took that instruction to heart and obeyed it.

Teaching is one of the gifts given by God through His Spirit but there are false teachers who make claim to having that gift, as various scriptures posted by others here illustrate.

Again though, I disagree that we only need the Holy Spirit. Did Jesus say anywhere that the Holy Spirit would teach us or individuals apart from each other? No He did not and that was one thing to guard against error. I can relate several stories concerning people who believed they were someone special and God directed them apart from others and the end result was never, I repeat never, good. With reference to the leading of the Holy Spirit, that could be a whole other topic and probably pretty interesting. I would not have started this thread if I did not have concern for those who follow false teachers/prophets and I have that concern born of both my own experience and that of others.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It wasn't like Jerome didn't have opposition with these precise arguments.
Oh the fight dragged on for centuries.

But the problem was that there were so many variations of the LXX that there literally was no standard LXX to be found anywhere. Even the Alexandrian LXX had obvious minor variations from the original Hebrew and Aramaic translations. (No real doctrinal variations but minor omissions, deletions, and etc)...and a complete standardized translation was needed before they all were corrupted into oblivion. (No printing presses....just hand transcription by latin/Greek speaking scribes without the dedication to precision like the Jews had) People usually thought that they were simply making a personal use Bible and not one anyone else would ever want or even desire to copy.
Which is why there were literally hundreds of variations of LXX .

And it's impossible to track down the various copies of the LXX that the different writing Apostles used. Which is why Jerome began his work. The Apostles knew the Hebrew and the Aramaic. Not the Septuagint. But when writing to a Greek speaking audience they grabbed whatever copy of LXX they had available to them and used it.

Many New Testament books were originally written in Hebrew or Aramaic. Like James was originally written in Aramaic. Matthew and Hebrews were written originally in Hebrew but translated into Greek by the Authors themselves. Luke and Acts are the only ones originally written in Greek. John is unique in that his were written in Early Latin which is very very similar to Greek.

4 different languages translated into one. Not exactly going to relate everything to everyone exactly the same.

Which is the huge "WHY" A Complete hermeneutics course is necessary for anyone wanting to know scriptures. It's not going to happen by reading a few commentaries and books...even less by listening to sermons. A course dedicated to how to go about deciphering what the intended meanings of scriptures are. Flat reading is not going to cut it.

Today, we have the most accurate scriptures available to us. More accurate than any Greek translation they had. Also the most attacked.

Thanks for the explanation

 

[homwardbound]

My sense is you have a kind heart.

Thank you, God has the kind Heart as a gift according to Ezekiel 36:26 has accepted, forgiven and sealed us to know truth, then to decide to who we will believe God, self or other selves, that as I have thought I know, and only Father knows as Son so well exposed in his walk here on earth to me at least

 

[ocean]

That's exactly what you're implying.That people who have a personal relationship with God who have been told by the Word himself to come out of the church ain't actually hearing from God.Otherwise you're saying the Word is ignoring the Word.

No I don't think so. I don't think we need to be accusatory. I don't think we can interpret what others say or think and questions are helpful to clear things up. I did reply to your concerns in a prior post so I am not ignorant of what you are saying with regard to churches.

 

[homwardbound]

We are not all at the same stage in our lives nor are Christians all at the same level of understanding or growth.

I do understand what you are saying though. At least I think I do

I one day a long time ago ago now, saw Hebrews 5:12- Chapter 6:3 and said to God from within me, I want to see in your timing God, not mine. It has been a long trip here on earth walking off a short pier daily, and I see I do not see, even if see, I still am not qualified, yet God is, especially when I see Romans 14:1-4, 2:1-4 I am humbled over and over and over again, man states God only speaks through the word written, Not true, God comes to live in us and tell us truth over all error in love to us all as in 1 Cor 13:4-7, me at least
As we each grow new in God for us each to teach ones that are willing to be taught by God personally one will see what Love did to evil and stands as done forever as I see daily to let go of my first born nature, not yet redeemed yet of the flesh, but in Spirit and Truth I am , thank you and you too John 4:23-24

 

[DRobinson]

If all one has is the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit (sanctified believers) to teach them, one has all they need. That being said, congregational fellowship, and the spiritual guiding of a Sanctified Pastor/Teacher can be a great help in one maturing in Gods Word. Such Pastors/Teachers are inspired by the Holy Spirit in their assisting a believer in their spiritual growth. But NEVER mistake the complete value of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Himself said the Holy Spirit would teach us ALL THINGS.

Problems arise when some person claims the inspiration of the Holy Spirit without actually having His indwelling presence. Many, many such peoples roam around like wolves to see how many of Gods children they can devour IMO.

All this being said; there is nothing one can learn from man that one can not learn from Scripture concerning their salvation, sanctification, justification through the precious gift of grace freely given by God.

The last thing is the key.
The Holy Spirit teaches through the Scripture.
He does not just reveal the truth without a person sending time in study.

If all one has is the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit (sanctified believers) to teach them, one has all they need. That being said, congregational fellowship, and the spiritual guiding of a Sanctified Pastor/Teacher can be a great help in one maturing in Gods Word. Such Pastors/Teachers are inspired by the Holy Spirit in their assisting a believer in their spiritual growth. But NEVER mistake the complete value of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Himself said the Holy Spirit would teach us ALL THINGS.

Problems arise when some person claims the inspiration of the Holy Spirit without actually having His indwelling presence. Many, many such peoples roam around like wolves to see how many of Gods children they can devour IMO.

All this being said; there is nothing one can learn from man that one can not learn from Scripture concerning their salvation, sanctification, justification through the precious gift of grace freely given by God.

The Holy Spirit only teaches through the Scripture.
He does not just reveal the Truth to a person without that person studying the Scripture.

 

[DRobinson]

What about those who God has called out of the Churches?Are they just crazy?

They are deceived.
God never leads one or His children to be a loner.
The local church is the body of Christ.
It is thru this visible body Christ chooses to work in this sinful world.
He may lead a person to leave a certain local body for various reasons, but He will also lead that person to seek another and join with it,

 

[Dino246]

Hello,
there are NO FORE-TELLING prophets any more, the gift, there are only FORTHTELLING... no additional NEW REVELATION, ONLY THOSE WHO CAN EXPOUND GODS WORD CLEARLY AND EFFECTIVELY..
so any one telling you I'VE RECEIVED A DIRECT MESSAGE...IS A FALSE TEACHER...

Bluntly, you are the false teacher here. You have misinterpreted the passage and denied the power of the Holy Spirit. You have misunderstood both prophecy and exposition.

I have never heard anyone (other than recognized cultists) claim "new revelation" but that is not what modern prophecy (since the close of the canon) is intended to be. I have, on the other hand, encountered your claim many times, and every time by people who have their ears closed both to the Lord and to sound interpretation of Scripture. In contrast, I have experienced "fore-telling" personally and have heard the Lord speak clearly on many occasions.

Prophecy is never called "exposition" in Scripture, nor vice versa. If we were to take your position to its logical end, because you claim that exposition is prophecy and that there is no more prophecy, there is no more exposition. You're in a box with no way out.

So, rethink your position, and ask the Lord to show you how His Spirit operates today.

 

[Dino246]

If God told someone to "come out of her my people" when referring to a church.What he is really saying is come out of the world.

Again, I can see that God would call someone out of a worldly situation or an unhealthy congregation (or denomination) but that is very different than "God" calling someone out of all local church involvement.

 

[ocean]

I one day a long time ago ago now, saw Hebrews 5:12- Chapter 6:3 and said to God from within me, I want to see in your timing God, not mine. It has been a long trip here on earth walking off a short pier daily, and I see I do not see, even if see, I still am not qualified, yet God is, especially when I see Romans 14:1-4, 2:1-4 I am humbled over and over and over again, man states God only speaks through the word written, Not true, God comes to live in us and tell us truth over all error in love to us all as in 1 Cor 13:4-7, me at least
As we each grow new in God for us each to teach ones that are willing to be taught by God personally one will see what Love did to evil and stands as done forever as I see daily to let go of my first born nature, not yet redeemed yet of the flesh, but in Spirit and Truth I am , thank you and you too John 4:23-24

I totally agree that through His Holy Spirit God does indeed speak to us. I believe we can absolutely receive personal guidance as we pray and seek God's direction in our lives. This thread is about those who take it upon themselves to say that they have received a message from God that everyone (in their circles, church especially) that everyone needs to follow. As I have stated that is where we need to have discernment and I would think that almost 100% of the time, that direction to follow what an individual says, is not really from the Holy Spirit. Thanks

 

[ocean]

The last thing is the key.
The Holy Spirit teaches through the Scripture.
He does not just reveal the truth without a person sending time in study.

The Holy Spirit only teaches through the Scripture.
He does not just reveal the Truth to a person without that person studying the Scripture.

Well hold on there a second. It seems you may be a cessationist and you can correct me if that is wrong. God most definately can speak into our spirits by His Spirit. For example, I once was going through a very trying time and of course praying and in my mind I suddenly heard these words: He sent His word and healed them and delivered them from their destructions. That is actually a verse found in the book of Psalms. Psalm 107:20.

At that time, I was not studying the Bible as I have done now for quite a few years so I did not know that verse existed. I looked up the words, found the verse and was struck by the kindness and personal involvement in our lives, mine in particular at that moment, and the gracious and loving way God had directly addressed my need. I have a good many examples of being led by Gods Spirit but I put the word first in all things.

The result of that experience is that I began to study and realize how the word is always to be put first in our lives.

So, God will and does act as He is Sovereign. There are thousands of people who can attest to God leading them in a personal way. Obviously I am concerned with false messages and false anything really, as my op illustrates. Frankly I object to personal opinions as to the veracity of scripture or the dismissal of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. How about people who receive a vision or dream about the existence of God without salvation? They go on to believe and are saved via God's revealing Himself by His Spirit. Actually, we have all of creation that attests to the reality of God.

 

[Aaron56]

When I'm talking to someone, and I have a different view than what they have, if they say "But God showed me my view was correct", then all discussion about that issue is done. Who am I to have a different view than (they believe) God?

Some act like the Bible says "Gifts were given so that the Bible could be written".

The Bible actually says "Gifts were given so that the Body of Christ could be built up and strengthened"

Ephesians 4:11-12 "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ..."

And a certain condition must be met before the gifts are no longer required. The next word:


Ephesians 4 Verse 13: till

Okay, till what?

Ephesians 4:13-14 "..we all come to the unity"

Okay, the unity of what? Until we can all agree to disagree? Until we all can meet at the same place without arguing?
What does it say?...

"..of the faith and of the knowledge..."

Unity of the faith, unity of the knowledge... Okay, this means we all use the same version of the Bible, right? Read on...

".of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ..."

Hold. The. Phone. Our standard is the perfect man, the fullness of Christ?! Woof! That's a tall order!

So, are we there yet? Is the Body of Christ unified in the faith and knowledge of the Son of God; perfect to the full measure of Christ?

Nope.

So are the gifts still needed?

Of course.

What gifts are needed?

Well, what gifts did Paul list before writing "till"?

"And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers..."

Ah, quite easy to see: apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers.

Question: But what about the apostles being charged with writing the Bible and, since now it's written, they are no longer needed?

Answer: That's a myth. 1/2 of the apostles mentioned in the scripture wrote nothing of the Bible.

The gifts are given for the benefit of the Body of Christ TILL a certain condition is met. We're not there yet. So, the gifts are still active in the church today.

Blessings

 

[ocean]

They are deceived.
God never leads one or His children to be a loner.
The local church is the body of Christ.
It is thru this visible body Christ chooses to work in this sinful world.
He may lead a person to leave a certain local body for various reasons, but He will also lead that person to seek another and join with it,

Well I would like to point out that this poster did not state anything about being a 'loner'. Some people cannot physically get out to a church so they participate online or have Christian friends who get together for study and prayer. I think we should be careful to not make sweeping judgements and try to get everyone on board with 'one size fits all.' Again, I did create the op so discernment and prayer is certainly an integral part in our responses and always with the understanding that word trumps all revelations (I don't mean adding to scripture here) or whatever.

 

[ocean]

Hello,
there are NO FORE-TELLING prophets any more, the gift, there are only FORTHTELLING... no additional NEW REVELATION, ONLY THOSE WHO CAN EXPOUND GODS WORD CLEARLY AND EFFECTIVELY..
so any one telling you I'VE RECEIVED A DIRECT MESSAGE...IS A FALSE TEACHER...

[1Co 13:8, 10 ] 8 Love never fails; but if [there are gifts of] prophecy, they will be done away with; if [there are] tongues, they will cease; if [there is] knowledge, it will be done away with. ... 10 but when the PERFECT comes, the partial will be done away with.

OK well that is your persuasion. You cannot explicitly come on board and tell everyone what they should believe. I created the op so I am well aware of the possibility of error or false teachers/prophets. It seems you may be a cessationist and you may have been taught to believe that way or come to believe it yourself in some manner. Understand that many will disagree with you and you have to accept that fact. Salvation is of the Lord and so are the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

I don't mess around. I am super vigilant concerning the false, which I believe God would have me to be, but I am also aware the devil would like us all to believe that the gifts Paul describes no longer exist. Please don't argue with people concerning these things. I am pretty sure many threads exist on that subject and a person can participate there and argue away. I think you can do a search to find things you may be interested in within the forum. This thread is not about whether or not we should all be cessationists.
Thanks

 

[decipher]

The Bible is the inspired word of God written for and by each generation and to be interpreted and understood by such as experience and knowledge of the times allow. The false prophets are those that think that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are taking a break from the lifes of humans in each generation. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have always been active in the lives of humans and are still active today.
In the Old Testament, people would get filled with the Holy Spirit and then they would prophesy. To prophesy does not mean just to foretell the future. It means having communication with God. That is why they would start their prophesy with "Thus saith the Lord". In the New Testament we learn that the Holy Spirit does not speak his own words, but what he hears, he speaks. In Isaiah 63: 9-10, the Holy Spirit is described as the "angel of His presence". Angel because it can be sent, and where the Holy Spirit is the Father is. When one receives the Holy Spirit, he becomes the temple of God the Father. When Jesus went back to the Father to get glorified, he received from the Father a spiritual body which was to be filled with the spirits of those humans chosen by the Father. How was this spiritual body filled? It was filled through the Baptism in the name of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a portal through which the Father can enter the being indwelled in order to communicate, educate, speak through and empower to get His will accomplished. The Son is the temple of the Father and when we (those chosen) get baptized by Jesus Christ with the Holy Spirit we receive a portal through which both Father and Son can reside. That is how we become one with the Father and Son, through the Holy Spirit (portal) that connects us.
Jesus when walking on the earth kept saying "These are not my words but the words of Him who sent me (the Father) John 14: 24.
John 14: 8-11 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been such a long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? Then he explains in verse 10 and 11: Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you, I speak not of myself; but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me; or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Eph 4: 6 One God, and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all (who are saved).
All that a true prophet can do is proclaim what he has learned and trust that God will give understanding to those that hear. No true prophet will earn any money or praise from his teaching. No true prophet will contradict the Bible. He will just bring a better understanding of what scripture is saying. Basically, you get baptized in the name of the Father when you are chosen by Him to receive the repentance for sin or sins committed which will lead you to Him for forgiveness. You get baptized in the name of the Son when you receive knowledge of the forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ and you believe. You then get baptized in the name of the Holy Spirit and get born again when Christ (not people) baptizes you with the Holy Spirit (the portal) through which the Father and Son enter our beings to do the work of perfecting us by filling us with the divine love necessary for us to fulfill the Spirit of the Law which is what the Letter of the Law is based on. God judges the heart, the deeds come automatically.
We have to be very careful when judging a prophet as a false prophet.

 

[DRobinson]

Well I would like to point out that this poster did not state anything about being a 'loner'. Some people cannot physically get out to a church so they participate online or have Christian friends who get together for study and prayer. I think we should be careful to not make sweeping judgements and try to get everyone on board with 'one size fits all.' Again, I did create the op so discernment and prayer is certainly an integral part in our responses and always with the understanding that word trumps all revelations (I don't mean adding to scripture here) or whatever.

I did not say HE was deceived, I said THEY.
I was speaking of the many that believe God has led them to avoid ALL local churches and just listen to the Holy Spirit.
I fully understand that there may be a reason that some can not attend.
We have several in our church who cannot so we go to them.