the great revival?

[Stephen63]

if the pentecostals say it then it cannot possibly be true

Matthew 12:35-37 (KJV)
[SUP]35 [/SUP]A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. [SUP]36 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. [SUP]37 [/SUP]For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

 

[zone]

Well, if you look into the history of denominations. - (I'm talking about any and all offshoots)
All of them were people seeking a closer walk.
But sadly, most sought it in vanity.

As far as an outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the last days;
- has knowledge been increased in the last days?
Are God's prophecies null and void?
No, we agree they are not.
- - So if we are seeing one, we are going to see the other. - (We are seeing it)

okay...so you have some Daniel in there, right?

Daniel 12:4
But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.

this was fulfilled already.

got anything else?

 

[zone]

Well, many believe in them.
Apostle J. Fred Muggs of the First Episcopal Ebeneezer Church (Inc.)
It says first apostles, notice how the word they wrote came first?
Now, who is adding to the canon? Which apostle is adding?
Hasn't been one for well over 1900 years.
So it says - "First Apostles".
-There are no current apostles.

and i concur.
so can the claims of ppl who say they are hearing from God/getting an annointing RE: the restoration of the 5-fold ministry (one being apostle) be trusted?

 

[notuptome]

and i concur.
so can the claims of ppl who say they are hearing from God/getting an annointing RE: the restoration of the 5-fold ministry (one being apostle) be trusted?

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.
Ever notice how God does not mince His words. He speaks directly and with authority about these things?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[RickShafer]

oh...well, the NAR (which is a sect claiming certain revival based on a Latter Rain) says the Five-Fold Ministry is restored.
so you say they're wrong? or it is a new (re-newed) "spirit" of apostleship or summink?



except, we have ppl today saying "God is saying to you today"; "Thus saith The Lord"; "I, God, tell you x; y; z"
so if God is speaking directly to a congregation through a pastor or somebody with a word of knowledge or whatever...He is speaking in addition to what He already said.

lots of ppl claim He is giving directly new prophecies.

is He?
or isn't He.

if He is, He Himself is adding...right?
so the Bible is old...and He is adding.



mkay. so we have prophets getting direct downlaods, but no authoritative apostles.
?

is it these ppl the revival will come through?
what does the revival narrative look like?



??
dunno what you mean.
the Book of Daniel is fulfilled.
sooo.....the revival folks basing the idea on that have misunderstood.
and since God wasn't taken by surprise and blinded the old wine skins until the rapture (or variation X of dispensationalism)...not sure where a great revival comes from.



yes i know.
that's why the signs and wonders movement is scary.

Zone, a word of knowledge isn't adding to anything God has written.
It's personal revelation. - Never contradicting the Word of God.
(Why would it?)

I tell you, yet you still don't believe me....The gifts are for the Body.

 

[notuptome]

Zone, a word of knowledge isn't adding to anything God has written.
It's personal revelation. - Never contradicting the Word of God.
(Why would it?)

I tell you, yet you still don't believe me....The gifts are for the Body.

Shall we believe you because you say it is so?
Just what do you mean it's a personal revelation never contradicting the word of God? The ministry of the Holy Spirit is to lead believers into the truth of the word of God. John 16:12-15

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[RickShafer]

Shall we believe you because you say it is so?
Just what do you mean it's a personal revelation never contradicting the word of God? The ministry of the Holy Spirit is to lead believers into the truth of the word of God. John 16:12-15

For the cause of Christ
Roger

No Roge, don't you believe a word I say.
You know me like you know the second great uncle of a Mongolian.

- So whatever you do, don't believe me because I wouldn't be ministering to you anyway.

For the nonjudgmental cause of Christ,
Richard.

 

[zone]

Zone, a word of knowledge isn't adding to anything God has written.
It's personal revelation. - Never contradicting the Word of God.
(Why would it?)

I tell you, yet you still don't believe me....The gifts are for the Body.

hey bud - glad to have this talk with you.

....

so, God is saying

"Rick, this is The Lord speaking:

I am revealing this to you personally - but it isn't authoritative"?

or do you mean He opens your mind to understand the scriptures?


as monergists do we roughly agree on the following:
we know we are led by the Holy spirit into truth; and i know The Lord works in our lives, all things for our good.
we know been given supernatural faith (pistis) through the God-breathed scriptures.
we know we have come to know Him, because He revealed Himself to us.

if this is what you mean - i agree.

but the Holy Spirit is going to teach us from the WORD.
(not saying we're not taught apart from the word concerning confirmation of what is good and evil, say in the world or in our lives....that's not what i am referring to RE: word of knowledge as certain folks use the term - as a Corinthinian gift).

paul never says knowlege (in that passage) is a personal revelation or anything like that.
it was current downloading of information no one had.

we have what we need now.

anyways - i don't want to do too much continuationism vs cessationism apart from the purpose of the OP:

Re: the great revival?

is God stirring up a revival which includes a five-fold ministry restoration?
and if so...may i see the passages which assure us He would do that, specifically.

ppl use Joel.

 

[zone]

Zone, a word of knowledge isn't adding to anything God has written.
It's personal revelation. - Never contradicting the Word of God.
(Why would it?)
.

i hear this part all the time - never contradicting the Word.
but right in this thread we have some ppl certain beyond doubt that they know there's a latter rain type outpouring coming.
and that this doesn't (or shouldn't) contradict the WORD.

what i am asking for is....confirmation then from the WORD that this is His Plan.
is a great endtime revival an argument from silence...ergo - no contradiction?

 

[RickShafer]

i hear this part all the time - never contradicting the Word.
but right in this thread we have some ppl certain beyond doubt that they know there's a latter rain type outpouring coming.
and that this doesn't (or shouldn't) contradict the WORD.

what i am asking for is....confirmation then from the WORD that this is His Plan.
is a great endtime revival an argument from silence...ergo - no contradiction?

Zoney, the term 'latter rain' is just that, a term.
It doesn't mean that it is some super spiritual down pouring.
As if the Holy Spirit would force that on anyone.
A prophet said that in the end times, "knowledge would be increased."
Another said, "and it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:"
Whats the big woop?
You think it is past, some of us think its going on now, why the problem?

 

[Stephen63]

Zone, a word of knowledge isn't adding to anything God has written.
It's personal revelation. - Never contradicting the Word of God.
(Why would it?)

I tell you, yet you still don't believe me....The gifts are for the Body.

Rick,
They claim that scripture is "complete" & therefore gifts aren't needed. Yet that very "complete" scripture says exactly what you're saying. If they don't believe the Word, they won't believe you. I think this scripture makes that clear:

Luke 16:27-31 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: [SUP]28 [/SUP]For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. [SUP]30 [/SUP]And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[RickShafer]

Well hold on Stephen, Jesus was the one that rose from the dead.
They believe in Jesus.
They just can't stand the thought of God giving spiritual gifts to men after Sola Scriptura.
None of the gifts ever contradict the Word, because they are given by the same Spirit.
- This is what is so perplexing to me.
- - And the fact is He didn't give them 'after', He gave them concurrent to the Word.

 

[homwardbound]

I agree with you on the priesthood part. If only Luther & the others had put the authority back in the hands of the laity to be the ministering witnesses they're supposed to be. Instead they formed their own hierarchy. That same hierarchy is still in the church today, with the exception of the authority has been stolen from the pastor & given to the elder board, most of which couldn't preach or teach their way out of a wet paper bag. Yet they run the church. Modern day Phariseeism, at the least.

Stephan, how do you feel as being a Pastor? What has this changed in you or brought forth more of in you?
Has it caused you to be more co-crucified with our Lord Christ, thus deeper and deeper alive to God? Or are you looking to the scripture more than the source of? Which is the Christ, that teaches us all through the Holy Spirit what is truth over what is in error?

 

[RickShafer]

The Holy Spirit testifies of one man.
Always has, always will.

 

[notuptome]

No Roge, don't you believe a word I say.
You know me like you know the second great uncle of a Mongolian.

- So whatever you do, don't believe me because I wouldn't be ministering to you anyway.

For the nonjudgmental cause of Christ,
Richard.

I am disappointed that you resort to the typical spiritual elitism of the pentacostal/charismatic movement. No one can minister to anyone apart from the word of God. Sheep know the voice of the Shepherd. We will not follow any other voice. If you are judged it is from the word of God not me.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[homwardbound]

I have heard this too, and I also heard it said there would be a false "Jesus" preached.
What does that mean ? I don't know for sure. I am like you, I am waiting for it, and pray
Ken is right, and that it is the REAL DEAL.

I am also considered Pentecostal because I am a Full Gospel believer. Gee I knew when
I left the Organized Churches to become a Spirit Filled Christian w/ evidence of speaking
in tongues, or prayer language, I was like a HOLY ROLLER SWINGING FROM THE CHANDELIER,'
SNAKE HANDLING CHRISTIAN..... Makes it sound like we are to be shunned.... The only thing
I will not accept is a false religion. I will not accept other Gods. Revival is great providing
it is the true Jesus Christ, Son of God, Creator of Heaven and Earth. Jehovah-God....

Oh... I do not swing from chandelier, nor do I handle snakes.... I was just saying what
others have said about Full Gospel Christians...

Praying for a true Revival and soon return of Christ...

a full revival just might be a full deception to even fool the very elect? Only God can reveal truth to us, no matter what is said by others. And as I see this is to be dead to my "I" self, and alive to God in the Spirit of God since God can today only be worshipped in Spirit and truth by Christ's being the sacrificial Lamb for us.
Gload to know you are a full Gospel believer, being all God and no one else

 

[RickShafer]

A word of knowledge isn't for yourself.
It is for another who can't see God's purposes for some reason.
It's like coming upon a saint who is caught in a trap.
(We don't know it, God does)
- That's why it's a word of knowledge.
- - All of the gifts are to edify the body.
- - - All of them!

 

[homwardbound]

The false Jesus has already been preached. It's the one that is still hanging on a tree with a blasphemous crown of thorns.
The real Jesus is the one that is risen in you and causes you to love God and love each other.

Whoop whoop!

and this is truth as being the result of being dead to self by being co-crucified to self with Christ at the cross of Christ.

 

[homwardbound]

Towards the end my 'guess' is that the Gentiles will be falling away whereas there will be a true revival amongst the Jews in turning to Jesus/Yeshua ...after being greatly deceived by the False Messiah/AntiChrist.

interesting and I see merit to this, and yes somehow will play itself out, along what you posted somehow

 

[RickShafer]

Now you will say, isn't this 'word of knowledge' thingy a way to control somebody else?
- NO!!
Satan can do that.
God never has.
Something about the Great Comforter that leads to tears of repentance - ALWAYS.