The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#41
efficacious atonement is limited to all who believe
Of course. But to BLATANTLY DENY that Christ died for the sins of the whole world is heresy.
 
Nov 6, 2017
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#42
why was atonement made for all Israel? why not the Hittites or the Amorites?

you didn't really answer my questions as to Christ's atonement, but never mind.
Atonement made for Rahab and as a result she was placed into the lineage of Jesus Christ, mentioned as one having faith in Hebrews and justified by her works in James

Matthew 1:5
Hebrews 11:31
James 2:25

Shall we talk about Ruth as well?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#43
“Father, forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.”
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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#45
efficacious atonement is limited to all who believe
That's true.

The question is, who believes?

Those who God has decided beforehand shall believe, or those who choose to believe of their own free will?
 
Nov 6, 2017
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#46
That's true.

The question is, who believes?

Those who God has decided beforehand shall believe, or those who choose to believe of their own free will?
The better term is free choice and not free will.
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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#49
If they repented and believed, yes, they are covered by the blood of Christ :)
No. He said, "Father, forgive them." So, by going by your first post, the Christ asked the Father to forgive them, so they are in heaven.

Just following your logic.

Unless the Father did not forgive them even though He said to?

Which is it?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,425
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#50
The question is, who believes? Those who God has decided beforehand shall believe, or those who choose to believe of their own free will?
If indeed God were "deciding beforehand" as to who would believe, then He would decide that every human being would believe. Why? (1) Because Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world and (2) God will have all men to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

So what do we actually see in Scripture? Acts chapter 2 gives us an excellent insight into how sinners get saved.

THE GOSPEL PREACHED
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

SINNERS CONVICTED AND CONVINCED
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?


SINNERS COMMANDED TO REPENT AND BELIEVE
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


SINNERS GLADLY RECEIVED THE WORD AND WERE SAVED
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Do we see anything about "God deciding" or do we see people responding to the Gospel, having been convicted and convinced about their need to repent and believe? We have no business going beyond what Scripture reveals.
 
Last edited:
Jan 21, 2017
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#51
After seeing all the Scripture which refute and repudiate limited atonement, is the the best you can come up with? Are you actually denying that sinners must repent and believe the Gospel in order to be saved? If so, you are in opposition to the true Gospel and the Bible.

Just forget about the "Arminian view" and show us the Scriptures which support the false doctrine of limited atonement and that no one needs to obey the Gospel.
That wont work.
They'll just do the usual switcheroo and say "of course all men must obey bla bla bla" but then they flip the switch and say no one can obey unless God obeys for them.
So they want you to throw out most bible verses in favor of the few they misinterpret. Then the story is those who do obey the gospel did so because God programmed them to do so.
He didnt program the rest that way because He gets glory for making certain folks destined for hell. OOPS that double predestination which most wont admit to, so i just gotta say "He chose some, but not all, He would be just in letting everyone go to hell, after all, everyone is a sinner because God predestined them to be that way" hurr durr.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
8,883
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#52
No. He said, "Father, forgive them." So, by going by your first post, the Christ asked the Father to forgive them, so they are in heaven.

Just following your logic.

Unless the Father did not forgive them even though He said to?

Which is it?
Is it not possible that they are in heaven? I believe that Christ, fully God, was so exceptional, that everything is possible. Even some old testament saints were resurrected in those times (and we know nothing of what happen with them afterwards)... strange events were happening.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
23,391
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#54
No. He said, "Father, forgive them." So, by going by your first post, the Christ asked the Father to forgive them, so they are in heaven.

Just following your logic.

Unless the Father did not forgive them even though He said to?

Which is it?
I find it disturbing that you fail to acknowledge the necessity of repentance and belief :( Such an omission also translates into a shocking lack of logic, as well as a failure to build doctrine line by line, precept upon precept.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#55
then the question becomes, what was the atonement? did what Christ did actually accomplish anything?
was atonement for sin made? were sins paid for? and whose?

if it was a real atonement, sins were paid for, so if Christ died for all men without exception, all men's sins were paid for and no one should be in hell, right?
Jesus atoned for the sins of mankind . . . Jesus atoned for all sins and ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. So Christ died for all men w/o exception but the atonement is applicable only to those "all" who repent and believe in the only begotten Son of God.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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#56
Jesus atoned for the sins of mankind . . . Jesus atoned for all sins and ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. So Christ died for all men w/o exception but the atonement is applicable only to those "all" who repent and believe in the only begotten Son of God.
So people are in hell, but their sins have been paid for. Interesting.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#59
So people are in hell, but their sins have been paid for. Interesting.
:) Nope, those who do not believe are condemned - their sins were paid for but they chose not to accept the gift of salvation offered them. All throughout scripture anyone can read that unless one believes in the only begotten Son of God and the works accomplished by him and through him - they are condemned. Jesus Christ gave his life to redeem the effect of the fall of Adam upon all mankind, to make reconciliation to God available - and that reconciliation comes only through or by Jesus Christ. "through" or "by" Jesus Christ, i.e. faith (belief) in Jesus Christ.

But these are written, that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you might have life through his name. John 20:31

He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:36

 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#60
So people are in hell, but their sins have been paid for. Interesting.
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mk 16:16)