The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

[phil36]

One of these days a Calvinist is going to rewrite the bible. Why not? Every other organization is doing it to fit their belief system. Here's some examples to use:

For whosoever "of the elect" shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
For God so loved the world "of the elect"...
God's not willing that any "of the elect" perish, ...
I am the way, the truth and the life "for the elect"...
How Christ died for "the elects sins" according to the scriptures, was buried....

Everyone, feel free to change the bible and add some more...

Hi John146,

I can't see how you come to your conclusion. I love the following:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


What we are debating is who are the 'whosoever' (in relation to the atonement). what does the whole counsel of God say they are? the bible itself uses the the word elect (ἐκλεκτός). I'll give you an example and then you might see the folly of your statement above.

Mark 13:27 - And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.


Titus 1:1 - Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness--


You see the bible itself calls those in christ 'the elect' (some translations use 'chosen') So if the bible calls you the elect, then you are elect, chosen.

 

[Issachar92]

One of these days a Calvinist is going to rewrite the bible. Why not? Every other organization is doing it to fit their belief system. Here's some examples to use:

For whosoever "of the elect" shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
For God so loved the world "of the elect"...
God's not willing that any "of the elect" perish, ...
I am the way, the truth and the life "for the elect"...
How Christ died for "the elects sins" according to the scriptures, was buried....

Everyone, feel free to change the bible and add some more...

I wouldnt be surprised if some "older manuscripts" are discovered sooner rather than later. EOV = Elect Only Version

 

[notuptome]

Calvin is dead .

How do you think the many that the father gives the Son will never see the magnitude of Gods grace by the Precious Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world , if they believe according to that grace that comes from a work of His faith?

You are not seeing the big picture.

1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

God loves even the vilest of sinners. The blood of Christ is sufficient to atone for all the sins of mankind. How great the offense to God when His great offer of salvation is rejected. It is far lesser an offense if you could never have received the offer of grace than to have counted it as worthless and distained it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

You and our meeting with each other ends so quickly.

Another log to add to my burn pile.

Adios senor.

Always makes me wonder when I see an attitude like this if the burn pile will be efficacious in eternity?

Perhaps kindness and compassion is only extended to the elect by those who see themselves as elect?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[preacher4truth]

Hi John146,

I can't see how you come to your conclusion. I love the following:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


What we are debating is who are the 'whosoever' (in relation to the atonement). what does the whole counsel of God say they are? the bible itself uses the the word elect (ἐκλεκτός). I'll give you an example and then you might see the folly of your statement above.

Mark 13:27 - And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.


Titus 1:1 - Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness--


You see the bible itself calls those in christ 'the elect' (some translations use 'Chosen') So if the bible calls you the elect, then you are elect, chosen.

People struggle with election out of fear and therefore reject this biblical doctrine. Many are more comfortable thinking they elected themselves, than in the testimony of Scripture that God elected those whom he willed to save. So they do believe in election; their election, not God's. I understand their fear and fallacy simply because it is based and founded upon tradition instead of the Word via failure to preach the truth of the Gospel thoroughly.

John146 has taught that God did not choose (elect) him, but that he chose himself into the kingdom. He rejects the teachings of Scripture here which teach the contrary to what he teaches and chooses to believe.

Election is, by the way, the milk of the Word. The failure of many pulpits to faithfully proclaim the whole counsel of God is to blame here.

 

[Bogadile]

Atleast everyone agrees repentance and faith means you are in the faith and the blood of Christ has cleansed you.
Right? RIGHT?!

 

[preacher4truth]

Atleast everyone agrees repentance and faith means you are in the faith and the blood of Christ has cleansed you.
Right? RIGHT?!

If the repentance and faith have been granted by God, making it genuine, then yes.

 

[preacher4truth]

It all boils down to this when people are confronted with the fact God has chosen whom he willed to save:

"Oh no, what if God didn't choose me?!?!?!"

Chill.

If you are genuinely converted, it is God's doing, not yours, and thus you are elect and saved. Give him all the glory for once.

 

[Bogadile]

If the repentance and faith have been granted by God, making it genuine, then yes.

Yes naturally.

I feel like this is one of those statements that people (including me in the past) misunderstand.

They think it is a situation where man is seeking for God and trying to repent but God will not let him. They put the cart before the horse, no man in the flesh would ever "try to repent and God will not let him".

I have seen some even say what if someone believes in Jesus and lives right, then dies and Jesus tells him "sorry, not elect". Its a gross misrepresentation. It is easy to do, but would I be right to say that the above mentioned situation would be proof that the person is one of the elect?

 

[Rokurac]

It all boils down to this when people are confronted with the fact God has chosen whom he willed to save:

"Oh no, what if God didn't choose me?!?!?!"

Chill.

If you are genuinely converted, it is God's doing, not yours, and thus you are elect and saved. Give him all the glory for once.

Im convinced we need a "FAQ about reformed theology" thread on this forum.
Many many misconceptions.

Is it possible to have a topic where multiple people can participate in creating the original post? We could answer and clear up alot of the misconceptions.

Reformed theology might seem complicated and too intelligent driven at first, but in the end when you boil it down its pretty simple and easy to understand. Its based on the bible.

 

[preacher4truth]

Yes naturally.

I feel like this is one of those statements that people (including me in the past) misunderstand.

They think it is a situation where man is seeking for God and trying to repent but God will not let him. They put the cart before the horse, no man in the flesh would ever "try to repent and God will not let him".

I have seen some even say what if someone believes in Jesus and lives right, then dies and Jesus tells him "sorry, not elect". Its a gross misrepresentation. It is easy to do, but would I be right to say that the above mentioned situation would be proof that the person is one of the elect?

Yes, if the person has saving grace in his or her life, the sanctification, Hebrews 12:14 then he or she is elect and saved. It is good to have this examining fear. We are like the disciples at times when Christ said one would betray him, and they feared asking "Is it I?" It is, imo, Philippians 2:13 in action. Concern for our souls is from God, and if we all admit it, we do waver at times from glory to glory, from full faith and confidence, to, at times some doubt.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yes naturally.

I feel like this is one of those statements that people (including me in the past) misunderstand.

They think it is a situation where man is seeking for God and trying to repent but God will not let him. They put the cart before the horse, no man in the flesh would ever "try to repent and God will not let him".

I have seen some even say what if someone believes in Jesus and lives right, then dies and Jesus tells him "sorry, not elect". Its a gross misrepresentation. It is easy to do, but would I be right to say that the above mentioned situation would be proof that the person is one of the elect?

This right here. Wonderful post. Bingo.

 

[preacher4truth]

Im convinced we need a "FAQ about reformed theology" thread on this forum.
Many many misconceptions.

Is it possible to have a topic where multiple people can participate in creating the original post? We could answer and clear up alot of the misconceptions.

Reformed theology might seem complicated and too intelligent driven at first, but in the end when you boil it down its pretty simple and easy to understand. Its based on the bible.

"Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!" Romans 11:33

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yes, if the person has saving grace in his or her life, the sanctification, Hebrews 12:14 then he or she is elect and saved. It is good to have this examining fear. We are like the disciples at times when Christ said one would betray him, and they feared asking "Is it I?" It is, imo, Philippians 2:13 in action. Concern for our souls is from God, and if we all admit it, we do waver at times from glory to glory, from full faith and confidence, to, at times some doubt.

Zactly. Bingo!

 

[heartofdavid]

Redemption.

Focus on redemption. Purchase.

Atonement is OT.

IT IS STILL VALID,AND A VALID WORD,BUT instead of "covering sin" we experience a removal of sin. A washing of any trace. A removal.

Jesus' sacrifice was a price paid. Redemption. Redemption of what ?
Mankind.
How manifested?
Conditions met.
The conditions must be met.
He let us decide our own fate . we all are destined to heaven, few DECIDE TO accept the offer. Hence lake of fire.

To not accept is insanity

 

[garee]

You are not seeing the big picture.

1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

God loves even the vilest of sinners. The blood of Christ is sufficient to atone for all the sins of mankind. How great the offense to God when His great offer of salvation is rejected. It is far lesser an offense if you could never have received the offer of grace than to have counted it as worthless and distained it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

With all due respect of showing your love for him in many ways..I would guess you see the big picture differently.(not a salvation issue)

Christ's work of faith according to His labor of love works in us so that then we can love Him. It brings redemption the better thing that accompanies salvation .He was not sent as a better choice between two opinions. He does not offer salvation. He creates new creature by a work of His faith

1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

God hates even the best of sinners. He hates both them and their sin. We are loved in Christ of Christ .Nothing to do with our dead flesh.

Psalms 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Mat 7:22

He did not say he did not perform them.He is not served by human hands as if he who supplies all needs needed something from the clay he is forming Christ in ,us. We have that power as new creatures in these earthen bodies of death but it is not of us.It serves us as a imputed righteousness.

One of the problem from standpoint has to do with the wage of sin. It has never changed or been reduced to Limbo or puragtory. The wage of one sin is eternal in nature not sunject to change.

If he would take into account one iniquity against Him .who could stand in His holy presence and receive mercy according to His grace that comes from His work of faith as a labor of His Love. I would think not one . And yet he will redeem us from all not many.

Like Jonas out of the depths of hell, he was delivered..

Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O LORD. Lord, hear my voice: let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications.If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.I wait for the LORD, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope. My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning. Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption. And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.Psa 130:1

 

[heartofdavid]

In short,he died for all. All are purchased. Few accept and are damned.

 

[garee]

In short,he died for all. All are purchased. Few accept and are damned.

He gave His Spirit life for many in jeopardy of His own Spirit... giving rise and understanding to the parable "drink blood".

If He gave His Spirit life for all, all would be saved.(universalism)anything goes just believe.

 

[John146]

You see the bible itself calls those in christ 'the elect' (some translations use 'chosen') So if the bible calls you the elect, then you are elect, chosen.

Bingo! Christ is the elect. Those that are in Christ are now part of the elect. We were not elected to be in Christ. We chose to be in Christ by believing the gospel, and through believing the gospel we become part of Christ's body, the elect. Isaiah 42.

 

[preacher4truth]

We were not elected to be in Christ.

More nonsense. Ephesians 1:4 and 2 Thessalonians 2:13 refute your error as does the balance of Scripture.

You didn't elect yourself as you fallaciously assert. You continue to not only take Scripture out of context, but you also take out of context what others have stated as in your above quote of phil36. Frankly that is dishonest behavior.