The Heresy of Perfectionism

[AnandaHya]

If you and your bf father combined your beliefs you would have it right. Because you are saved you are no longer a sinner, but you cannot continue in sin. only our past sin were forgiven at salvation

that is why some people don't want to get saved until their death bed so they can be forgiven of their past sins but can live their lives according to the flesh until then.....sorry faulty logic and false gospel teaching.

here lets fix the statement:

If you are saved you are not longer JUDGED a sinner, but you can not continue in sin without the HOLY SPIRIT convicting you. Jesus died for ALL of your sins, but you will not be forgiven unless you repent and your whole life is lived in obedience to God's will with faith that God will keep you and save you and sanctify you not because of anything YOU do but because of HIS grace and LOVE and for the glory of HIS NAME not for your pleasure and happiness but for HIS GLORY.

Salvation is MORE then the forgiveness of SIN. Easy beliefism cheapens both God's judgement and His grace and mercy.

salvation involves GODLY SORROW, awakening to your fallen state in need of a savior and Conviction for ALL of your sins and then Repentance that you did not obey God and Submission to Jesus Lordship and Faith in God's saving power.

Salvation is not built upon FEAR of Hell and punishment but LOVE that God pours into the heart and souls of His children. for Jesus did not come to condemn the world but to SAVE it.

 

[4runner]

4runner I wasn't addressing her at all, her posts are not condemning anyway shape or form. Your "self" doesn't allow you to see the truth of what she is saying overall, to lighten up, one can talk scripture all one likes yet if there is no love, compassion nor understanding, (it's all about love His love), then it just becomes a clanging symbol. I love your passion for the things of God and people to embrace the cross but cringe when it's turned into something it's just not suppose to be. Anandyha has a gentle spirit bro, pls don't imply otherwise. We all fall for satans bait in this along our walk, I say this as a encouragement to you not as anything else.

This is a joke because I dont bow to people opposing scripture and false teaching I do not love. Do you really think that?

Unbelievable to lengths some people will go

 

[4runner]

that is why some people don't want to get saved until their death bed so they can be forgiven of their past sins but can live their lives according to the flesh until then.....sorry faulty logic and false gospel teaching.

People dont want to get saved because if they do they will have to stop sinning huh?

If you are saved you dont want to sin

People dont want to get save because of love for self

 

[Abiding]

obedience to God is to love Him that works vertically and horizontally
at the same time or it isnt working at all. Pleasing God is to live by faith.
Faith which worketh by love.

 

[4runner]

Originally Posted by AnandaHya

Make it simple for you and blunt because hints are not working and I pray to God that it comes out right and according to His will.

I am not saying to make provisions for your flesh.

I am stating you are WALKING IN THE FLESH

No I walk in the Spirit, and you should too

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Romans 8
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

By your own admission you walk in the flesh therefore according to scripture you cannot please God, and what is worse you insist I do the same

Kind of seems like you should rethink your theory huh?

 

[Consumed]

A wise person never stops learning about what it means to love above all else. People are at different stages in their walk, called sanctification, process of perfection, no one is perfect, but thru regeneration of mind and heart we are transformed into His likeness(character). We all having differing personalties, that's what makes us unique but God is love and is so by nature(character). We can't govern our will, that's why we surrender it to Him, surely layer by layer it's stripped away from us til it's just His will and nothing else. The will to love always, His love doesn't condemn anyone, but save.

 

[4runner]

4runner I wasn't addressing her at all, her posts are not condemning anyway shape or form. Your "self" doesn't allow you to see the truth of what she is saying overall, to lighten up, one can talk scripture all one likes yet if there is no love, compassion nor understanding, (it's all about love His love), then it just becomes a clanging symbol. I love your passion for the things of God and people to embrace the cross but cringe when it's turned into something it's just not suppose to be. We all fall for satans bait in this along our walk, .

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
The objectionable habit of dogs is used by Peter to teach the reprehensible condition of the apostate child of God in 2nd Peter 2:22 "The dog is turned to his own vomit again" The term "dog" is figuratively used to stand for false teachers and those who shall be outside of heaven.

Dogs "rend you" How do people with the lack of appreciation of the value of the gospel rend you? Such people when presented with repeated efforts to teach them can actually resort to literal physical violence. In Acts 7 we see that those to whom Stephen preached murdered him. Often, the assault is verbal. The dogs will assign an evil motive to any and every thing you say, attempting to make you appear the sinner. They will resort to lying and slandering you

 

[4runner]

A wise person never stops learning about what it means to love above all else. People are at different stages in their walk, called sanctification, process of perfection, no one is perfect, but thru regeneration of mind and heart we are transformed into His likeness(character). We all having differing personalties, that's what makes us unique but God is love and is so by nature(character). We can't govern our will, that's why we surrender it to Him, surely layer by layer it's stripped away from us til it's just His will and nothing else. The will to love always, His love doesn't condemn anyone, but save.

I agree. Why you keep post such things is explained above

 

[Consumed]

obedience to God is to love Him that works vertically and horizontally
at the same time or it isnt working at all. Pleasing God is to live by faith.
Faith which worketh by love.

I like that, well said

 

[AnandaHya]

People dont want to get saved because if they do they will have to stop sinning huh?

If you are saved you dont want to sin

People dont want to get save because of love for self

Lord, are you sure he is one of yours?

sorry 4runner you are not listening.

people have the false idea that they can get saved later, but they do not know the truth that they are only alive through the grace of GOD. they use your reasoning that you have to be perfect as an excuse not to get saved.

I personally believed that Jesus was savior of the world. that God was my heavenly Father but I did not think I could be Christian for I read the Bible at least 3 times when I was a teenager. I talked to Christians but no one ever told me that God does not expect us to be perfect. that God love is unconditional and that I did not have to be perfect but salvation was based upon GOD"s perfection and confession of faith would allow the Holy Spirit to come and help us walk closer to GOD.

You see I had the heart to believe but I did not want to confess my faith because I thought once I did and if I sinned I would be damned to hell. I knew myself. I knew I am not perfect and could not be sinless. I still know that alone I could not be righteous but God keeps me from transgressions by giving me faith and knowledge and guidance.

However I still am not perfect in obedience to Christ. I know that I do not intentionally sin but I also recognize that I sometimes unintentionally do it. I accept that if God was Just he would punish me for those unintentional sins but through the mercy of Christ He does not but shows me my sin and allows me to repent and He forgives me and shows me how to keep from doing it in the future. that is what I believe is meant by the sanctification process.

Dear Heavenly father, no matter what words we say or anything we do it is all counted worthless unless we do it with Your blessings Lord. We ask that eyes be opened and hearts be shown the pain that our words cause to others and allow us to learn through Your Holy spirit the truth and light and love that we need to be living sacrifices unto Your Glory of God. Allow us to walk in Your Spirit and keep us from the temptations of our sinful flesh. Lord We thank You for Your many blessings. We thank You for your wisdom, light and love. In Jesus name we pray, Amen.

 

[AnandaHya]

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
The objectionable habit of dogs is used by Peter to teach the reprehensible condition of the apostate child of God in 2nd Peter 2:22 "The dog is turned to his own vomit again" The term "dog" is figuratively used to stand for false teachers and those who shall be outside of heaven.

Dogs "rend you" How do people with the lack of appreciation of the value of the gospel rend you? Such people when presented with repeated efforts to teach them can actually resort to literal physical violence. In Acts 7 we see that those to whom Stephen preached murdered him. Often, the assault is verbal. The dogs will assign an evil motive to any and every thing you say, attempting to make you appear the sinner. They will resort to lying and slandering you

so that is how God has judged you?

we will pray that it changes.

 

[Cobus]

May I ask this.... What if we all sell EVRYTHING we own, and we bring the money to a God-appointed apostle and we stay together, breaking bread and continue stedfastly in what this apostle preach and all in fellowship and prayers. What if God shows us a place where we can reside and do all this? And God even sends us an apostle to lead us.. One appointed by Him, and an PERFECT example of holiness....And we continue daily with ONE accord and we eat our bread and meat with gladness and singleness of heart? Who here does not believer this could aspire?
It did in Acts 2... What changed from Acts 2 to today? Ask yourselves this... Do you do the Lord's Word? Are you a LIVING WORD OF GOD? NO??? Why not?

 

[Consumed]

May I ask this.... What if we all sell EVRYTHING we own, and we bring the money to a God-appointed apostle and we stay together, breaking bread and continue stedfastly in what this apostle preach and all in fellowship and prayers. What if God shows us a place where we can reside and do all this? And God even sends us an apostle to lead us.. One appointed by Him, and an PERFECT example of holiness....And we continue daily with ONE accord and we eat our bread and meat with gladness and singleness of heart? Who here does not believer this could aspire?
It did in Acts 2... What changed from Acts 2 to today? Ask yourselves this... Do you do the Lord's Word? Are you a LIVING WORD OF GOD? NO??? Why not?

O cobus your a hard man. Lol I can say I would but then again I'd be like Gideon, I would really need Him to confirm it to me not just by scripture, too many have perished doing that of late and they all had the right intention. I would truly need a rhema word from God and then I'd throw the fleece out for good measure couple times. Do you know what my wife would do to me if I got it wrong , my only hope then that death would come quick. Rofl

 

[jandian]

yes that is to a church not to individual people but I will look forward to the discussion have a blessed day.

The book of revelations is an allegorical book. And yes you are right, God was speaking to the church; but the church comprises of people; therefore God is really talking to people.

The book of life if filled with names of people, therefore God is not removing a church from the book of life,he is removing people.

The churches doesn't represent physical churches, they represent spiritual churches. It was actually classifying each church by behavioral traits. For example if I was found to be lukewarm; in the book of revelations I would belong to the church of Laodecia

I have the other scriptures for you to read on your own.. I don't really like to make extremely long post, I will post it after and we can discuss later... I look forward to your prayerful response

 

[AnandaHya]

lol jandain I'll message you

 

[zone]

So says you not God.

2nd Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I choose to believe what God says about me

that's not speaking primarily about YOU. it's about the great Exchange....what God has done for sinners, ALL ACCORDING TO HIS OWN COUNSEL.

just no clue that this is Christ's Righteousness imputed to the ungodly sinner's account, making him spotless, because Christ is spotless.

but you don't believe the true gospel, because you are preaching another gospel.
your gospel is cursed.

 

[4runner]

Originally Posted by AnandaHya

Make it simple for you and blunt because hints are not working and I pray to God that it comes out right and according to His will.

I am not saying to make provisions for your flesh.

I am stating you are WALKING IN THE FLESH

Originally Posted by 4runner

No I walk in the Spirit, and you should too

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Romans 8
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

By your own admission you walk in the flesh therefore according to scripture you cannot please God, and what is worse you insist I do the same

Kind of seems like you should rethink your theory huh?

This truth is more than you con argue against, so you just ignore it huh? You said you would apologize when proven wrong. I guess that was untrue?

 

[AnandaHya]

I am stating you are WALKING IN THE FLESH This truth is more than you con argue against, so you just ignore it huh? You said you would apologize when proven wrong. I guess that was untrue?

but you haven't 4runner. you haven't proven anything. I did not post because I have a feeling this would be pointless and end up in an argument.

I respect you and God tells me we need to pray and love others even if we think they are wrong. I'm not going to argue with you. I will simply state what I believe and why.

I do not teach people to walk in the flesh, that is a lie and you have yet to apologize though I don't expect you to since that would involve being humble enough to admit you are wrong.

when I am wrong I admit it and apologize. I still think you are teaching a doctrine of works salvation that will and HAVE lead to much heartache and a bondage of the LAW that Jesus came to set us free from for it is not OUR righteousness but Christ's that saves us.

Do you deny that statement?

SHould faith be based on how well you follow the LAW and what your say are the commandments of God or should faith be based on the person of Jesus Christ?

I chose to build my temple, my beliefs on my personal relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus. He is my mediator and my teacher. I stand daily in His prescence and He washes me clean of my transgressions. through His grace He shows me where I have fallen short of His glory, DAILY. not a once time affair but a daily submission to His Lordship. a daily deliverance and gift of His words of truth and living water of love. I tell people they should seek to walk in the Spirit but their flesh will rebel. However as athelics train their bodies to perform beyond what most people attempt to do, we as soliders in Christ are asked to train our very thoughts to the obedience of Christ. We are to control our own wills and harness them to His will and His word, in humbleness and understanding of the truth of our current position and fallen nature and faith in the fact that God through HIS power not ours will perfect and make us into what He wants.

If one of your congregation were to sin after being baptized would you reject them from your fellowship? what would you tell a teenager that got pregnant without the benefit of marriage? what would you tell a drug addict who is struggling to break their habit? what would you tell a newly widowed woman who can't seem to make herself read her Bible like she used to or do the good deeds that she used to be able to do and felt guilty for what she perceives as her lack of faith, her own unworthiness to pertake in the Lord's supper even though she loves God with all her heart but is just too broken to move?

4runner I believe respect and love should be the motive anything said. if you can not find either in your heart when responding to me. I prefer if we do not communicate.

 

[4runner]

Jeremiah 13
15 Hear ye, and give ear; be not proud: for the LORD hath spoken.
16 Give glory to the LORD your God, before he cause darkness, and before your feet stumble upon the dark mountains, and, while ye look for light, he turn it into the shadow of death, and make it gross darkness.
1 7But if ye will not hear it, my soul shall weep in secret places for your pride; and mine eye shall weep sore, and run down with tears, because the LORD's flock is carried away captive.



The refusal many of you have shown to hear God's word, not only leads you into darkness, but it actually makes God weep

 

[AnandaHya]

Jeremiah 13
15 Hear ye, and give ear; be not proud: for the LORD hath spoken.
16 Give glory to the LORD your God, before he cause darkness, and before your feet stumble upon the dark mountains, and, while ye look for light, he turn it into the shadow of death, and make it gross darkness.
1 7But if ye will not hear it, my soul shall weep in secret places for your pride; and mine eye shall weep sore, and run down with tears, because the LORD's flock is carried away captive.



The refusal many of you have shown to hear God's word, not only leads you into darkness, but it actually makes God weep

and the thing you refuse to see is that I believe those verses apply to you and you think they apply to me but only God is the true and faithful judge concerning the hearts of men.

so that is what you would say to a lady or child who thinks she is unworthy of God's love?

how comforting...