The Heresy of Perfectionism

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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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THOUGHTS ON SPROUL - The Heavy Weight Calvinist:
Confusing - “gospel” “justification” "faith" and “soteriology"

(Again I say, most folks in this Forum do not have, or do not know - The Doctrine of
Justification):
you do a whole lot of googling.
are you familiar with the following?

please show me where Paul doesn't teach Sola Fide. what is he teaching?
BE PRECISE.

Ephesians 2
By Grace Through Faith
1And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the bodya and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4Butb God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

One in Christ
11Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens,c but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God byd the Spirit.
 
Jul 3, 2011
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his logic says we are becoming gods by "allowing" Christ to "live perfectly" through us.
this is not a mistake on her part, but a purposeful lie, and slander

She is a perfect example of what Jesus meant when He said dog

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
The objectionable habit of dogs is used by Peter to teach the reprehensible condition of the apostate child of God in 2nd Peter 2:22 "The dog is turned to his own vomit again" The term "dog" is figuratively used to stand for false teachers and those who shall be outside of heaven.

Dogs "rend you" How do people with the lack of appreciation of the value of the gospel rend you? Such people when presented with repeated efforts to teach them can actually resort to literal physical violence. In Acts 7 we see that those to whom Stephen preached murdered him.

Often, the assault is verbal. The dogs will assign an evil motive to any and every thing you say, attempting to make you appear the sinner. They will resort to lying and slandering you
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
Exactly.While I am not an advocate of sinless perfection, I have often asked the question several times but have yet to get answer from those who claim it is impossible to overcome sin in this life regarding the following verse:

1 Corinthians 10:13

"No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it."

Here God promises to provide an escape when we are tempted to sin? If the answer was forgiveness for past, present and future sin then why has God promised us an escape before sinning?

Because God loves us and wants us to know we are His. He gives us trials and temptations. We don't win all of them. At least I don't. But He comes back and saves us and helps us try again. That is what repentance is. We repent and try again. If we could attain perfection then we would not have to repent. We would not need Jesus, HEAVEN FORBID. I need Jesus and so do you.

God Bless You
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
this is not a mistake on her part, but a purposeful lie, and slander

She is a perfect example of what Jesus meant when He said dog

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
The objectionable habit of dogs is used by Peter to teach the reprehensible condition of the apostate child of God in 2nd Peter 2:22 "The dog is turned to his own vomit again" The term "dog" is figuratively used to stand for false teachers and those who shall be outside of heaven.

Dogs "rend you" How do people with the lack of appreciation of the value of the gospel rend you? Such people when presented with repeated efforts to teach them can actually resort to literal physical violence. In Acts 7 we see that those to whom Stephen preached murdered him.

Often, the assault is verbal. The dogs will assign an evil motive to any and every thing you say, attempting to make you appear the sinner. They will resort to lying and slandering you

you don't have any pearls.
you're like the rich man who left lazarus lying at the gate.

you teach another gospel, another jesus and you have another spirit.
 
Jul 3, 2011
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Because God loves us and wants us to know we are His. He gives us trials and temptations.
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
are you without sin?
 
F

FireOnTheAltar

Guest
Because God loves us and wants us to know we are His. He gives us trials and temptations. We don't win all of them. At least I don't. But He comes back and saves us and helps us try again. That is what repentance is. We repent and try again. If we could attain perfection then we would not have to repent. We would not need Jesus, HEAVEN FORBID. I need Jesus and so do you.

God Bless You
Good post Grandpa and completely relevant after we have stumbled but it doesn't answer my question.
 

jandian

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2011
772
11
18
This argument could go on forever and with the wrong spirit motivating us....

The important here; is that we believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior and without Him we cannot be saved....

For everything else; let God be true and every man a liar (Romans 3:4).

Stay Blessed!
 
Jul 3, 2011
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are you without sin?
At the moment....yes.

1st John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye
Jesus is telling us that while we are in sin we have no right to judge our brother. However He also states here than when we have confronted, and overcome our sin that we are now able to shine a light in our brothers life exposing and correcting their sin.

Some argue it is impossible to overcome sin in this life, and I say that if that is true then none of us will ever be ion a position to accomplish anything for the Kingdom.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest

Because God loves us and wants us to know we are His. He gives us trials and temptations. We don't win all of them. At least I don't. But He comes back and saves us and helps us try again. That is what repentance is. We repent and try again. If we could attain perfection then we would not have to repent. We would not need Jesus, HEAVEN FORBID. I need Jesus and so do you.

God Bless You
that is what I believe. God could make us perfect but if we are still prideful we will think WE did it and get haughty so allows us to walk alone for a while and we realize it is not US who is able to keep His commandments but His Holy Spirit that lives in us. we fail our trials but the prideful justify their sins and say they are not sins and do not need to change, the humble grow in Christ and are convicted by His word and revelation.

For example do you truly love your neighbor as yourself if you tell them they do not deserve your respect?
 
Jul 3, 2011
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For example do you truly love your neighbor as yourself if you tell them they do not deserve your respect?
Absolutely. We are told to love our enemies not respect them. Do you respect Muslim Jehadist? Should you love them?
 
F

FireOnTheAltar

Guest
I am not sure you will get an answer from this crowd

You're probably right. Even after I had given them a key verse concerning the answer.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
At the moment....yes.

1st John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye
Jesus is telling us that while we are in sin we have no right to judge our brother. However He also states here than when we have confronted, and overcome our sin that we are now able to shine a light in our brothers life exposing and correcting their sin.

Some argue it is impossible to overcome sin in this life, and I say that if that is true then none of us will ever be ion a position to accomplish anything for the Kingdom.
there's NO truth in you.
none.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
Who needs a devil when we have a human here to do the preaching for Him. Kinda makes ya sick to hear nothing of the Love or grace of
God. Because to Him the teaching of the grace of God promotes sin. I spose that would look that way to a selfrighteous person, But far
from the soul who has been given that grace. The one who the Father has given His rest to. The one who is sensitive to the Spirit, and been
given a new heart with holy affections. That person hears this as nothing more than a loud mouth immature person who thinks his supposed
place in the church is to be a judgemental pain in the ear because its fits his rotten immature personality. Ive seen them come and go. They
serve no purpose but to help our santification.
 
F

FireOnTheAltar

Guest
Exactly.While I am not an advocate of sinless perfection, I have often asked the question several times but have yet to get answer from those who claim it is impossible to overcome sin in this life regarding the following verse:

1 Corinthians 10:13

"No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it."

Here God promises to provide an escape when we are tempted to sin. If the answer was forgiveness for past, present and future sin then why has God promised us an escape before sinning?

Lots of name calling and wild accusations yet still no scriptural answer to my question.