The Heresy of Perfectionism

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A

Abiding

Guest
Abiding, this disappoints me. What is it that I accuse people of?
Scripture does support it, and I have given many scripture to prove as muchNever saisd I would, but I get better every day, and I believe God is able to perfect me.

4runner what do you accuse people of?...let me check my ink cartrige.
Yes we change from glory to glory day by day, and yes He will continue to
lead you and help you mature, your right about that. Hes faithful.:)

I hate bringing up the past. If i happen to see you accusing falsely, ill
whack you right then. My fee is very reasonable.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
you avoid the question because if you answer it honestly, you would have to admit your error.

And people accuse me of pride...smh

No im avoiding sillyness, and actually the question offends me. Oh! the depths of the riches both
of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and his ways past finding
out? For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who has been His counsellor?

If the gospel was based on just one attribute of God ....such as would answer the question "could God..."
Well sure He could. He could fry earth and go for a walk. But this sillyness gets us nowhere.
The reason our sanctification is the way it is and not your way is simply because He does everything
after the council of His own will. To please Himself. And deep relationship, past our understanding is
involved in our growth, and conforming us into the image of Christ entails more than a magic wand,
and mans willpower.
 
Jul 3, 2011
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If the gospel was based on just one attribute of God ....such as would answer the question "could God..."
Well sure He could.
And the Bible says He will for those that are willing
He could fry earth and go for a walk. .
He is going to do that also
 
Feb 17, 2010
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Abiding again i did not say CAN GOD...Do you see how you twist even my words? I asked if ...YOUR GOD.... Do you know why asked if YOUR GOD does something, becasue MY GOD SAID....BE PERFECT!...And I know HE MEANT I SHOULD BE PERFECT HERE ON EARTH!!! And I know HE WOULD NEVER ASK ME SOMETHING IF HE WOULD NOT LET IT HAPPEN FOR ME... That is why Iasked you CAN YOUR GOD... I really think you either serve of believe in another God than I, or you misunderstand the words in this verse.... Now please... LOOK AT THIS MY DEAR FRIEND!... Se you goal ON AND IN JESUS!!! ANd He is the perfection in us...LOOK!!! I do not want to talk to abiding, I want to talk to JESUS IN ABIDING!!!Look at this.. AND SEE HOW PURE AND PERFECT THIS JOB IS GOD DID ON SUCH A PERSON... Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
Abiding, you know we are caring for eachother, but we truly disagree, and that is NOT OK. becasue if we both believe JESUS we will not be different, not even in ANYTHING. We will have one Truth, and One Spirit, HIS and His Spirit does not differ! I used to believe i will always be a sinner, I used to believe like you, but it brought me NOWHERE! Just to show you how DEEP Jesus took me into His Word, and how beautiful GOD'S salvation is, and I am not even saved YET!!!! let me ask you this... Many people say nobody was sinless before Jesus. Was ADAM sinless before he ate from the tree? What about the three men that visted Abraham, espesially the one that stayed with Abraham. The other two went to Sodom. What about Abel? Did HE EVER SIN, becasue he had no law of God to break? And God says if there is no law then their is no transgression... See my friend to make statements like ...Jesus was the first man not to sin is maybe not such a clear statement, except if you say... Jesus is the only one that never sinned and can never sin. Becasue i believe Jesus came more that the once as the Messiah! Look at what Jesus said to Mary... Touch me not FOR I HAVE NOT YET ASCENDED TO MY FATHER... and then he did, and he came back and said to Thomas... PUT your hand in my side... So he returned from Father then, not His "coming on the clouds at the end... But as the NEW BODY we can have here! The quikened FLESH... ONe that can transport in no time...Like Philip from the Enoch. Like Paul into third heaven, Like Ezekiel to the temple while he sat i nhis house..Like Jesus from the Emmaus two men. It can go through walls.. Like Jesus in the closed room. You know what i am talking about..This is the flesh that CANNOT sin. This is the NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST! This is our GOAL. And we should seek it with our whole heart, soul and mind! Let us set theat our goal and stoip arguing,and encourage eachother to get to this GLORIOUS STATE OF JESUS IN US AND WE IN HIM. This is what i believe the REBORN Cobus looks like, Or actually, the REBORN JESUS IN COBUS looks like! May God save me! AMEN! If you do not see the love in this, you are very blind. My love for God and my love for you and my love for myself. I wish you GOD! And I pray God will DO WITH US AS HE PLEASES... that is ONLY JESUS CAN PLEASE GOD. So if God wants us to please HIM He would have to REFORM US TO BE JESUS! God so this, PLEASE LORD DO THIS!!! Thank you Lord Jesus, that you WILL DO THIS, Amen!
 
N

Nalu

Guest
The idea that God can save us from sin offends you?
The concept of a man claiming to be 100 percent, perfect at all times in speech and deed is offensive.

Only Jesus did that and Jesus is God.

Offensive and silly.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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The concept of a man claiming to be 100 percent, perfect at all times in speech and deed is offensive.

Only Jesus did that and Jesus is God.

Offensive and silly.
hi Nalu.



its the penalty for our sins we are saved from anyways: WRATH, hellfire and damnation.
the bondage to sin is broken and we are free to run to Jesus in time of need.

extra cream?
 
Jul 3, 2011
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Originally Posted by 4runner

The idea that God can save us from sin offends you?
Dont understand this statement. Who has ever said there was any doubts on that?
The question was do you think God can keep us from sin, perfecting us in this life. You avoided the question, and then finally said the question offended you????????

Does the idea that God can save us from sin offend you?
 
Jul 3, 2011
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The concept of a man claiming to be 100 percent, perfect at all times in speech and deed is offensive.

Only Jesus did that and Jesus is God.

Offensive and silly.
Jesus was very offensive, they were so offended they killed Him. As will everyone who speak truth offend.
 
Jul 3, 2011
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its the penalty for our sins we are saved from anyways: WRATH, hellfire and damnation.
You asked about the false gospel? This is it, the idea that we are saved from the penalty of sin, rather than from sin itself is THE FALSE GOSPEL
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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You asked about the false gospel? This is it, the idea that we are saved from the penalty of sin, rather than from sin itself is THE FALSE GOSPEL
Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!


Romans 5:9
Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.


JUSTIFIED

to show to be righteous, declare righteous
Original Word: δικαιόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: dikaioó
Phonetic Spelling: (dik-ah-yo'-o)

Short Definition: I make righteous, defend the cause of, justify
Definition: I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.

Cognate: 1344 dikaióō (from dikē, "right, judicial-approval") – properly, approved, especially in a legal, authoritative sense; to show what is right, i.e. conformed to a proper standard (i.e. "upright").

The believer is "made righteous/justified" (1344 /dikaióō) by the Lord, cleared of all charges (punishment) related to their sins. Moreover, they are justified (1344 /dikaióō, "made right, righteous") by God's grace each time they receive (obey) faith (4102 /pístis), i.e. "God's inwrought persuasion" (cf. the -oō ending which conveys "to bring to/out"). See 1343 (dikaiosynē).

Word Origin
from dikaios
Definition
to show to be righteous, declare righteous
NASB Word Usage
acknowledged...justice (1), acquitted (1), freed (3), justified (24), justifier (1), justifies (2), justify (4), vindicated (3).

free, justify, be righteous.
From dikaios; to render (i.e. Show or regard as) just or innocent -- free, justify(-ier), be righteous.


~

1 Thessalonians 1
Greeting
1Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy,

To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

Grace to you and peace.

The Thessalonians’ Faith and Example
2We give thanks to God always for all of you, constantlya mentioning you in our prayers, 3remembering before our God and Father your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ. 4For we know, brothersb loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction. You know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake. 6And you became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you received the word in much affliction, with the joy of the Holy Spirit, 7so that you became an example to all the believers in Macedonia and in Achaia. 8For not only has the word of the Lord sounded forth from you in Macedonia and Achaia, but your faith in God has gone forth everywhere, so that we need not say anything. 9For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

WRATH

impulse, wrath
Original Word: ὀργή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: orgé
Phonetic Spelling: (or-gay')
Short Definition: anger, wrath, passion
Definition: anger, wrath, passion; punishment, vengeance.

3709 orgḗ (from orgáō, "to teem, swelling up to constitutionally oppose") – properly, settled anger (opposition), i.e. rising up from an ongoing (fixed) opposition.

3709 /orgḗ ("settled anger") proceeds from an internal disposition which steadfastly opposes someone or something based on extended personal exposure, i.e. solidifying what the beholder considers wrong (unjust, evil).

["Orgē comes from the verb oragō meaning, 'to teem, to swell'; and thus implies that it is not a sudden outburst, but rather (referring to God's) fixed, controlled, passionate feeling against sin . . . a settled indignation (so Hendriksen)" (D. E. Hiebert, at 1 Thes 1:10).]

anger, indignation, vengeance, wrath.

From oregomai; properly, desire (as a reaching forth or excitement of the mind), i.e. (by analogy), violent passion (ire, or (justifiable) abhorrence); by implication punishment -- anger, indignation, vengeance, wrath.

You asked about the false gospel? This is it, the idea that we are saved from the penalty of sin, rather than from sin itself is THE FALSE GOSPEL
Ephesians 2
By Grace Through Faith
1And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the bodya and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4Butb God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them

SAVED

to save
Original Word: σῴζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: sózó
Phonetic Spelling: (sode'-zo)
Short Definition: I save, heal
Definition:
I save, heal, preserve, rescue.

4982 sṓzō (from sōs, "safe, rescued") – properly, deliver out of danger and into safety; used principally of God rescuing believers from the penalty and power of sin – and into His provisions (safety).

[4982 (sṓzō) is the root of: 4990 /sōtḗr ("Savior"), 4991 /sōtēría ("salvation") and the adjectival form, 4992 /sōtḗrion (what is "saved/rescued from destruction and brought into divine safety").]

 
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A

AnandaHya

Guest
Jesus was very offensive, they were so offended they killed Him. As will everyone who speak truth offend.
Jesus only offended those who would rather be in darkness and believe a lie. what do you make of these scriptures:

2 Timothy 2:22-29
New King James Version (NKJV)
22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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You asked about the false gospel? This is it, the idea that we are saved from the penalty of sin, rather than from sin itself is THE FALSE GOSPEL
what else ya got?
 
A

Abiding

Guest
The question was do you think God can keep us from sin, perfecting us in this life. You avoided the question, and then finally said the question offended you????????

Does the idea that God can save us from sin offend you?

The question has never been about the ability of God to do anything.
To take it there is being intellectually dishonest.

My desire to know the will of God, doesnt get derailed with silly speculations
and logical questions. If the bible taught that God was going to perfect me
not positionally, but actually or in reality, I would put my faith in it to happen.
The bible just doesnt teach that, so why would i believe or put my faith in that?
 
C

Consumed

Guest
Jesus was very offensive, they were so offended they killed Him. As will everyone who speak truth offend.
There's a difference in being offensive and people being offended by it than Jesus being offensive by just sharing the good news. It's in the communication. Jesus exhorted encouraged even John says there wouldn't be enough books to write all the good He did. Different kind of offensive bro. :)
 
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Abiding

Guest
its like an ankle fetish, I always preferred very large dogs. :)
 
Jul 3, 2011
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Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
Seeing that you promote a false gospel, I didnt think you would be too kien on this verse
 
Jul 3, 2011
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There's a difference in being offensive and people being offended by it than Jesus being offensive by just sharing the good news. It's in the communication. Jesus exhorted encouraged even John says there wouldn't be enough books to write all the good He did. Different kind of offensive bro. :)
Actually it is not.I dont not purposely offend people the fact is the truth is offensive