The Holy Spirit is Jesus.

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TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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#41
      1. Jesus is not God the Father
        1. Isa. 9:6: "Father of eternity" means eternal; compare other names formed with word "father": Abialbon, "father of strength" = strong (2 Sam. 23:31); Abiasaph, "father of gathering" = gatherer (Ex. 6:24); Abigail, a woman's name(!), "father of exultation" = exulting (1 Chron. 2:16).
        2. John 10:30
          1. Jesus did not say, "I am the Father," nor did He say, "the Son and the Father are one person."
          2. The first person plural esmen ("we are") implies two persons.
          3. The neuter word for "one" (hen) is used, implying essential unity but not personal unity (compare John 17:21-23).
        3. John 5:43: Jesus' coming in His Father's name means not that He was the Father because He had the Father's name, but that, while others come in their own name (or their own authority), Jesus does not; He comes in His Father's name (on His Father's authority).
        4. John 8:19; 16:3: Ignorance of Jesus is indeed ignorance of the Father, but that does not prove that Jesus is the one He calls "My Father."
        5. John 14:6-11
          1. Jesus and the Father are one being, not one person.
          2. Jesus said, "I am in the Father," not "I am the Father."
          3. The statement, "the Father is in Me," does not mean Jesus is the Father; compare John 14:20; 17:21-23.
        6. John 14:18: An older adult brother can care for his younger siblings, thus preventing them from being "orphans," without being their father.
        7. Colossians 2:9: Does not mean that Jesus is the Father, or that Jesus is an incarnation of the Father; rather, since "Godhead" (theotês) means Deity, the state of being God, the nature of God, Jesus is fully God, but not the only person who is God. "The Godhead" here does not = the Father (note that Jesus is in the Father, John 10:38; 14:10, 14:11; 17:21), but the nature of the Father.
        8. The Father and the Son are both involved in various activities: raising Jesus (Gal. 1:1; John 2:19-22), raising the dead (John 5:21; 6:39-40, 6:44, 6:54, 1 Cor. 6:14), answering prayer (John 14:13-14; 15:16; 16:23), sending the Holy Spirit (John 14:16; 15:26; 16:7), drawing people to Jesus (John 6:44; 12:32), etc. These common works do prove that the two persons are both God, but not that Jesus is the Father
 

TheLearner

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#42
      1. The Son existed before his Incarnation, even before creation
        1. Prov. 30:4: This is not predictive prophecy; "prophecy" in Prov. 30:1 translates massa, which is rendered elsewhere as "burden."
        2. The Son created all things: See VI.E.1
        3. Jesus was "with" (pros or para) God the Father before creation: John 1:1; 17:5; prosin John 1:1 does not mean "pertaining to," although it does in Hebrews 2:17; 5:1(which use pros with ta).
        4. Jesus, the Son of God, existed before John the Baptist (who was born before Jesus): John 1:15, cf. John 1:14-18, 1:29-34
        5. Jesus, the Son, came down from heaven, sent from the Father, and went back to heaven, back to the Father: John 3:13, 3:31; 6:33; 6:38, 6:41, 6:46, 6:51, 6:56-58, 6:62; 8:23, 8:42; 13:3; 16:27-28; cf. Acts 1:10-11; cf. the sending of the Holy Spirit, John 16:5-7; 1 Pet. 1:12
        6. Jesus, speaking as the Son (John 8:54-56), asserts His eternal preexistence before Abraham: John 8:58
        7. The Son explicitly said to exist "before all things": Col. 1:17, cf. Col. 1:12-20
        8. These statements cannot be dismissed as true only in God's foreknowledge
          1. We are all "in God's mind" before creation; yet such passages as John 1:1and John 17:5 clearly mean to say something unusual about Christ.
          2. To say that all things were created through Christ means that He must have existed at creation.
          3. No one else in Scripture is ever said to have been with God before creation.
        9. Texts which speak of the Son being begotten "today" do not mean He became the Son on a certain day, since they refer to His exaltation at the resurrection(Acts 13:33; Heb. 1:3-5; 5:5; cf. Psa. 2:7; cf. also Rom. 1:4).
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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#43
      1. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit
        1. The Holy Spirit is "another Comforter": John 14:16; compare 1 John 2:1.
        2. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit: John 15:26; 16:7.
        3. The Holy Spirit exhibits humility in relation to, and seeks to glorify, Jesus (John 16:13-14).
        4. The Son and the Holy Spirit are distinguished as two persons in Matt. 28:19.
        5. The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus: Luke 3:22.
        6. Is Jesus the Holy Spirit?
          1. 2 Cor. 3:17: the Spirit is here called "Lord" in the sense of being Yahweh or God, not Jesus (cf. 2 Cor. 3:16, citing Ex. 34:34; cf. 2 Cor. 3:17 in the Revised English Bible); note Acts 28:25-27, cf. Isa. 6:8-10.
          2. 1 Cor. 15:45: Jesus is "a life-giving Spirit," not in the sense that He is the Holy Spirit whom He sent at Pentecost, but in the sense that He is the glorified God-man; and as God He is Spirit by nature. All three persons of the Trinity are Spirit, though there are not three divine Spirits; and only one person is designated "the Holy Spirit."
          3. Rom. 8:27, 8:34: the fact that two persons intercede for us is consistent with the fact that we have two Advocates (John 14:16; Rom. 8:26; 1 John 2:1).
          4. John 14:18: Jesus here refers to His appearances to the disciples after the resurrection (compare John 14:19), not to the coming of the Spirit.
          5. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are both involved in various activities: raising Jesus (John 2:19-22; Rom. 8:9-11), raising the dead (John 5:21; 6:39-40, 6:44, 6:54, Rom. 8:9-11), dwelling in the believer (John 14:16; 2 Cor. 13:5; Col. 1:27), interceding for the believer (Rom. 8:26; Heb. 7:25), sanctifying believers (Eph. 5:26; 1 Pet. 1:2), etc. These works prove that the two persons are both God, but not that Jesus is the Holy Spirit.
 

TheLearner

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#44
      1. The Father is not the Holy Spirit
        1. The Father sent the Holy Spirit: John 14:15; 15:26.
        2. The Holy Spirit intercedes with the Father for us: Rom. 8:26-27.
        3. The Father and the Holy Spirit are distinguished as two persons in Matt. 28:19.
        4. Is the Father the Holy Spirit?
          1. Matt. 1:18; Luke 1:35: It is argued that the Holy Spirit is the Father of the incarnate Son of God; this argument ignores the fact that the "conception" is not a product of physical union between a man and a woman!
          2. The Father and the Holy Spirit are both said to be active in various activities; the resurrection of Jesus (Gal. 1:1; Rom. 8:11), comforting Christians (2 Cor. 1:3-4; John 14:26), sanctifying Christians (Jude 1; 1 Pet. 1:2), etc. The most these facts prove is that the two work together; they do not prove the two are one person.
 

TheLearner

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#45
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#47
F. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit

1. The Holy Spirit is “another Comforter”: John 14:16; compare 1 John 2:1.

2. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit: John 15:26; 16:7.

3. The Holy Spirit exhibits humility in relation to, and seeks to glorify, Jesus (John 16:13-14).

4. The Son and the Holy Spirit are distinguished as two persons in Matt. 28:19.

5. The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus: Luke 3:22.

6. Is Jesus the Holy Spirit?

a. 2 Cor. 3:17: the Spirit is here called “Lord” in the sense of being Yahweh or God, not Jesus (cf. v. 16, citing Ex. 34:34; cf. v. 17 in the Revised English Bible); note Acts 28:25-27, cf. Is. 6:8-10.

b. 1 Cor. 15:45: Jesus is “a life-giving Spirit,” not in the sense that he is the Holy Spirit whom he sent at Pentecost, but in the sense that he is the glorified God-man; and as God he is Spirit by nature. All three persons of the Trinity are Spirit, though there are not three divine Spirits; and only one person is designated “the Holy Spirit.”

c. Rom. 8:27, 34: the fact that two persons intercede for us is consistent with the fact that we have two Advocates (John 14:16; Rom. 8:26; 1 John 2:1).

d. John 14:18: Jesus here refers to his appearances to the disciples after the resurrection (compare 14:19), not to the coming of the Spirit.

e. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are both involved in various activities: raising Jesus (John 2:19-19-22); Rom. 8:9-11), raising the dead (John 5:21; 6:39-40, 44, 54, Rom. 8:9-11), dwelling in the believer (John 14:16; 2 Cor. 13:5; Col. 1:27), interceding for the believer (Rom. 8:26; Heb. 7:25), sanctifying believers (Eph. 5:26; 1 Pet. 1:2), etc. These works prove that the two persons are both God, but not that Jesus is the Holy Spirit.

http://bib.irr.org/biblical-basis-o...-father-son-and-holy-spirit-are-three-persons
Red the Word and include it all, but you could begin with Isaiah 9;6 God bless your learning.
 

KelbyofGod

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Oct 8, 2017
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#48
Who here agrees to this?
I really like your thread. :) I'll post my answer as two verses... (If you understand what I'm saying feel free to like it or something):

No man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

...AND...

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#49
Who here agrees to this?
Hopefully no one.

The Holy Spirit is NOT Jesus, and no amount of *friendly talk* will change that.

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three DISTINCT Divine Person according to the Bible.
 

TheLearner

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#50
So, you are saying the He did not have the Holy Spirit before He was baptized? Interesting. :):unsure::cool:
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily,
 

TheLearner

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#51
Red the Word and include it all, but you could begin with Isaiah 9;6 God bless your learning.
One of my posts already answered your proof text. see 24 and 28
 

TheLearner

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#52
Isaiah 9 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
A New Day Is Coming
9 But there will be an end to the gloom those people suffered. In the past, people thought the land of Zebulun and Naphtali was not important. But later, that land will be honored—the land along the sea, the land east of the Jordan River, and Galilee where people from other nations live. 2 Those people lived in darkness, but they will see a great light. They lived in a place as dark as death, but a great light will shine on them.

3 God, you will make the nation grow, and you will make the people happy. They will rejoice in your presence as they do at harvest time. It will be like the joy when people take their share of things they have won in war. 4 That will happen because you will lift the heavy yoke off their shoulders and take away their heavy burden. You will take away the rod that the enemy used to punish your people, as you did when you defeated Midian.[a]

5 Every boot that marched in battle and every uniform stained with blood will be destroyed and thrown into the fire. 6 This will happen when the special child is born. God will give us a son who will be responsible for leading the people. His name will be “Wonderful Counselor, Powerful God, Father Who Lives Forever, Prince of Peace.” 7 His power will continue to grow, and there will be peace without end. This will establish him as the king sitting on David’s throne and ruling his kingdom. He will rule with goodness and justice forever and ever. The strong love that the Lord All-Powerful has for his people will make this happen!

God Will Punish Israel
8 The Lord gave a command against Jacob and someone in Israel fell.[c] 9 So all the people in Ephraim, including the ruler in Samaria, learned their lesson.

Those people are very proud and boastful now. They say, 10 “Yes, those bricks fell, but we will rebuild with strong stone. Yes, those little trees were chopped down, but we will plant new trees. And they will be large, strong trees.”

11 The Lord found people to go up and fight against Rezin. He stirred up Rezin’s enemies. 12 As for Israel, the Arameans are in front of him and the Philistines are behind him. And they are both eating away at him. But the Lord is not finished yet. He is still angry, and his arm is raised to continue punishing Israel.

13 The people did not stop sinning. They did not come to the Lord All-Powerful for help. 14 So the Lord cut off Israel’s head and tail. He took away the branch and the stalk in one day. 15 (The head means the elders and important leaders. The tail means the prophets who told lies.)

16 Their guides are leading them the wrong way, so those who follow them will be destroyed. 17 All of them are evil. So the Lord is not happy with the young men, and he will not show mercy to their widows and orphans. That is because they are evil hypocrites. They tell lies.

The Lord has punished them, but he is not finished yet. He is still angry, and his arm is raised to continue punishing his people.

18 That evil was like a small fire that started among the weeds and thorns and then spread to the larger bushes in the forest. Finally, it became a giant fire, and everything went up in smoke.

19 The Lord All-Powerful was angry, so the land was burned. The people were fuel for the fire. No one showed any compassion to anyone else. 20 People looked to the right and grabbed whatever they could, but they were still hungry. They grabbed whatever was on their left, but still they were not satisfied. So they turned on themselves and began to eat the bodies of their own children. 21 Manasseh fought against Ephraim, and Ephraim fought against Manasseh. Then both of them turned on Judah.

But the Lord is not finished punishing his people. He is still angry, and his arm is raised to continue punishing them.

Footnotes:
 

TheLearner

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#53
Hopefully no one.

The Holy Spirit is NOT Jesus, and no amount of *friendly talk* will change that.

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three DISTINCT Divine Person according to the Bible.
Could you define person as used in the doctrine of the Trinity since some confuse person with being one being.
 

JaumeJ

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Jul 2, 2011
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#55
When people lean on the flesh instead of the Holy Spirit's revelation of Jesus, Yeshua, there will always be gaping holes in what they think we all should believe. You will know them by the fruit they produce.
 
Mar 12, 2019
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#56
The outline I am posting is in answer to your questions.

Robert Bowman, Jr. :: The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity
← Back to Robert Bowman, Jr.'s Bio & Resources
  1. There Is One God
  2. This God is Known In The OT As Jehovah/Yahweh ("The Lord")
  3. God Is A Unique, Incomprehensible Being
  4. Is God One Person?
  5. The Father Of Jesus Christ Is God
  6. Jesus Christ Is God
  7. The Holy Spirit Is God
  8. The Father, Son, And Holy Spirit Are Distinct Persons
  9. Conclusion
  10. What Difference Does The Doctrine Of The Trinity Make?
Introduction
It is often alleged that the doctrine of the Trinity is not a biblical doctrine. While the word Trinity is not in the Bible, the substance of the doctrine is definitely biblical.
Robert Bowman does not know Jesus.
If he did, why would he believe number 8?
By point nr. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, <- He points towards Jesus being the Christ, and point number 8 he is confused,
and denies that Jesus is the Christ.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not distinct persons.

The Father is the Holy Spirit, His name is Jesus, and He is the Christ.

If you deny this, you deny that Jesus is the Christ.


Point 1 - That is true. One God. He is Holy, and He is a Spirit.
Verse: God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:24)

Point 2 - It is the Lord GOD that is revealed.
Verse: And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. (John 20:28)

Point 3. Yes. He is Holy, and He is a Spirit.
Verse: There is none holy like the LORD; there is none besides you; there is no rock like our God. (1 Samuel 2:2)

Point 4. God is not as man. He is a Holy Spirit, but He did take on flesh.
This means that He is the Son of God.

Point 5. Yes, The Father is the Holy Spirit, His name is Jesus, and He is the Christ revealed unto us. He is God in flesh.
Verse: Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell? (Proverbs 30:4)

Point 6. Jesus is the name of the Father, and He is a Holy Spirit. (Clear by now.) He took on flesh. Jesus is the Christ.
Verse: Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? (John 14:9)

Point 7. The Holy Spirit is Jesus, that is correct. He is God, and God is a Spirit.
He became flesh, that's how He was seen among us.

Point 8. This is false.

Let me explain, - God is a Father - and He is a Holy Spirit. He has a name, and this name is Jesus. He became man,
and is ONE, - the God that could not be seen, took on flesh, and GOD became as man.
Jesus is the Christ.

Proof:
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(1 John 5:7)

Notice what it says? These three are one.

The Holy Ghost is the Father, and He has the Word of life.
He IS the word of life.
He is Holy.
He is a Spirit.
His name is Jesus.
He is the Christ.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#57
Could you define person as used in the doctrine of the Trinity since some confuse person with being one being.
The best way to define "person" as applied to the triune Godhead is to state that the Father is NOT the Son, and the Son is NOT the Father or the Holy Spirit. And because they are three distinct divine Persons, Jesus made this very clear statement in Scripture which is indisputably genuine (Mt 28:19): Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

"The name" is singular for God -- in Hebrew "Ha Shem" (as used by devout Jews). But the Father is distinct from the Son, and the Son is distinct from the Holy Ghost. This is also "the Mystery of God", not to be explained through human reasoning, but to be accepted by faith.
 
Mar 12, 2019
29
9
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#58
The best way to define "person" as applied to the triune Godhead is to state that the Father is NOT the Son, and the Son is NOT the Father or the Holy Spirit. And because they are three distinct divine Persons, Jesus made this very clear statement in Scripture which is indisputably genuine (Mt 28:19): Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

"The name" is singular for God -- in Hebrew "Ha Shem" (as used by devout Jews). But the Father is distinct from the Son, and the Son is distinct from the Holy Ghost. This is also "the Mystery of God", not to be explained through human reasoning, but to be accepted by faith.
This is false, and you deny that Jesus is the Christ.
God is a Holy Spirit.

In this verse: (Mt 28:19): Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: <- there is mentioned that God has a name, over all these "distinct persons", as you say.

One name.
One God.
One Spirit.
One Father.
Jesus. He is the Christ.
 

Bingo

Well-known member
Feb 9, 2019
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#59
"The things of God are revealed by the Holy Spirit, and do not come from the heart of man.* Correct interpretation of the Bible is therefore impossible without the illuminating work of the Holy Spirit in the mind and heart of the believer. God's Spirit must enlighten human darkness - not as an addition to our wisdom, but as the absolutely essential source of the only true wisdom - first of all in order that we may be born again, and secondly so that we may understand His Word properly."
'Praise God'
 

Attachments

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
13,458
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#60
This is false, and you deny that Jesus is the Christ.
How can I deny that Jesus is the Christ when I have shown you from Scripture that He is the Son? The Son is the Christ, not the Holy Spirit.

So if you are promoting the idea that the Holy Spirit is Christ, that is FALSE DOCTRINE. You are making God a liar according to the Scriptures shown below.

1 JOHN 5
1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him...
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.